Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #11

[renarde]

He may have told Lori that he made that kind of money in order to seal the deal with her. She loves money and he loves her. I'm willing to bet he would tell her that so she would think he was more successful than he really is. Those two really deserve each other.

Isn't that figure close to what Charles made per month? What happens when she realizes Chad doesn't make that much money?

 

[OGDiva]

I'm curious about the date Chad's ticket was booked to Hawaii after Tammy's funeral. If it was booked prior to her passing that would be a real problem for him legally. I also wonder where exactly Lori was when Tammy passed away. Was she in Hawaii already or did they fly together after the funeral?

 

[BigAl16]

Isn't that figure close to what Charles made per month? What happens when she realizes Chad doesn't make that much money?

We saw something that said Charles made 20K a month, so Chad is claiming he makes about 50% more. Even if he did, which I guarantee he did NOT, I wonder how he's maintaining that without Tammy doing her part to keep the business running.

Edit: added NOT since I somehow missed the n't I intended.

 

[Avocado49]

Is there any evidence that Chad and Lori are legally married? They did not get married in Vegas when AC and then LVs niece did according to the public county records. I checked Vallow, Ryan, and Cox. Guessing she has more aliases but CD does not. Marriage records in Hawaii are public but you have to get them in person or through snail mail. Surely the reporters have checked there, right? If they were married in Idaho I assume Idaho MSM would have published that by now.

still no evidence they are actually legally married. We know Chad told his family they were - and maybe they had some spiritual ceremony, but I don’t think they got married at all.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

For felony murder, a "murder" has to be committed in the course of a felony. Again, they need to prove murder and that it was committed during a felony.

A felony murder charge does NOT require that a murder took place, only that someone ended up dead. So LE can stick to their self defense conclusion but still charge her for felony murder if a felony was committed. There is plenty going on in that house that morning that could be called assault, a felony. I'm no legal expert, JMOO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

DBM

 

[momrids6]

You are probably right and I'm making too much of it.

I will say this based on my personal experience. Business travelers who fly a lot tend to have movies and tv shows on their personal handheld devices. This takes up a lot of storage so it is not at all unual to keep that media on a separate memory card. Both Netflix and Amazon allow you to download movies directly to an SD card on your phone. Charles traveled three days a week for his business so I, probably wrongly, made an assumption that he would have one. MOO

I honestly didn't think you made too much of it. I just don't know anyone that uses one, and most I know don't have the phones with mega storage. I was hoping for why.. and you just answered that

 

[Avocado49]

Bringing this up because I just watched the bodycam footage from the shooting of CV. Unless I totally missed it, the officer didn't mention her Hawaii driver's license. I don't hear well so I really have to concentrate. Jmo.

I'm dinging on this because I really think this could speak to "dominance" in a relationship. There's a reason you go to the hassle of renewing a false driver's license.

And in the video from the room rental discussion, Chad claimed his wife lived on the island. He knew about that ID is my assumption.

Jmo.

I wonder about Tylee’s driver’s license too - she had one - maybe procured in HI also (when she was there with Lori in early 2019)?

 

[Tortoise]

Does anyone know why Chandler PD released the bodycam footage and the interview notes of Lori and Tylee? Is this usual? Does it mean case closed now? I mean the redactions certainly make me think there is protected content beyond identifying the minors, but I'm curious as to why it's out now.

 

[Avocado49]

He was making 30K a month from selling books and that private forum? Was there another source of income we don't know about? Jmo

I think he just lied on the rental application. They walked up to this lady’s door and just asked to rent her house? And yet he already had an electronic application ready even though the place wasn’t for rent. They thought they could charm this woman into renting to them, and maybe when that didn’t work out they tried a different vision to go with a property management company. I wonder what they put on that application (for the place they eventually rented) and when exactly that was. Chad was a homeowner in ID, probably had good credit, etc. and a bunch of cash for a deposit. Or maybe he was really delusional about how much those life insurance payments would be - that was his “projected” income, or Lori’s insurance + Chad’s combined? How are they paying for the rental?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Does anyone know why Chandler PD released the bodycam footage and the interview notes of Lori and Tylee? Is this usual? Does it mean case closed now? I mean the redactions certainly make me think there is protected content beyond identifying the minors, but I'm curious as to why it's out now.

I'm sure they were flooded with requests under the freedom of information act. Jmo

 

[Avocado49]

Does anyone know why Chandler PD released the bodycam footage and the interview notes of Lori and Tylee? Is this usual? Does it mean case closed now? I mean the redactions certainly make me think there is protected content beyond identifying the minors, but I'm curious as to why it's out now.

I think Chandler PD felt some pressure to show that they were being cooperative at this point, in finding the children. They are trying to “save face” IMO because they know they dropped the ball at the time of the shooting. They trust Justin Lum, which is cool.

 

[kye0001]

I think he just lied on the rental application. They walked up to this lady’s door and just asked to rent her house? And yet he already had an electronic application ready even though the place wasn’t for rent. They thought they could charm this woman into renting to them, and maybe when that didn’t work out they tried a different vision to go with a property management company. I wonder what they put on that application (for the place they eventually rented) and when exactly that was. Chad was a homeowner in ID, probably had good credit, etc. and a bunch of cash for a deposit. Or maybe he was really delusional about how much those life insurance payments would be - that was his “projected” income, or Lori’s insurance + Chad’s combined? How are they paying for the rental?

I know my son was able to find out how much a USA YouTuber made last year by a online search. Is it possible to do that for members of the public? I just tried and couldn’t find anything. Does anyone know if that’s possible?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think he just lied on the rental application. They walked up to this lady’s door and just asked to rent her house? And yet he already had an electronic application ready even though the place wasn’t for rent. They thought they could charm this woman into renting to them, and maybe when that didn’t work out they tried a different vision to go with a property management company. I wonder what they put on that application (for the place they eventually rented) and when exactly that was. Chad was a homeowner in ID, probably had good credit, etc. and a bunch of cash for a deposit. Or maybe he was really delusional about how much those life insurance payments would be - that was his “projected” income, or Lori’s insurance + Chad’s combined? How are they paying for the rental?

First paragraph of reply deleted by me.

Unless I've lost an entire thought train this morning, it was to rent a bedroom, not a house. Completely different landlord. All JMO with the flood of info.

 

[Trask]

Bringing this up because I just watched the bodycam footage from the shooting of CV. Unless I totally missed it, the officer didn't mention her Hawaii driver's license. I don't hear well so I really have to concentrate. Jmo.

I'm dinging on this because I really think this could speak to "dominance" in a relationship. There's a reason you go to the hassle of renewing a false driver's license.

And in the video from the room rental discussion, Chad claimed his wife lived on the island. He knew about that ID is my assumption.

Jmo.

Would she have had the license from when they lived in Hawaii in 2014? The Daily Mail article said the police were happy to see there was an address that they didn't know about but now I'm wondering if that was the address where she previously lived with Charles. That house is directly across the street from the condo they were renting. They weren't served until the resort manager told them there was a new reservation under Lori's name for Sunday and then stopped them just outside the resort.

One of the Hawaii experts here on WS, and apoligies that I forgot who that was, said you get big discounts when you flash your local ID so I assume she's using it for that and maybe used it in January/February 2019 as well.

 

[cocomod]

Lori’s attack on Charles reminds me of the death of Jason Corbett. Trying to say he was the violent one. Seeing the video by Lori’s older son saying he misses and appreciated Charles. Seeing the text messages from Charles’s son was beyond heartbreaking. She is just cold, manipulative, and more and more like a black widow.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Would she have had the license from when they lived in Hawaii in 2014? The Daily Mail article said the police were happy to see there was an address that they didn't know about but now I'm wondering if that was the address where she previously lived with Charles. That house is directly across the street from the condo they were renting. They weren't served until the resort manager told them there was a new reservation under Lori's name for Sunday and then stopped them just outside the resort.

One of the Hawaii experts here on WS, and apoligies that I forgot who that was, said you get big discounts when you flash your local ID so I assume she's using it for that and maybe used it in January/February 2019 as well.

It was under Lori Ryan is what got me. I'll be back in a sec and edit I need to look at something.

ETA her and Charles got married in 2006. Her name should have been changed to Vallow on her DL. That's why I'm wondering if she's been maintaining more than one DL somehow.

 

[indicolite22]

Would she have had the license from when they lived in Hawaii in 2014? The Daily Mail article said the police were happy to see there was an address that they didn't know about but now I'm wondering if that was the address where she previously lived with Charles. That house is directly across the street from the condo they were renting. They weren't served until the resort manager told them there was a new reservation under Lori's name for Sunday and then stopped them just outside the resort.

One of the Hawaii experts here on WS, and apoligies that I forgot who that was, said you get big discounts when you flash your local ID so I assume she's using it for that and maybe used it in January/February 2019 as well.

BBM. Wouldn't her last name be Vallow by then? The license said Lori Ryan.

 

[utahobserver]

I've turned to thinking about the two personalities involved here and how it could possibly be broken down from the outside, through psychological interference, if there is a chance that working one of them could aid a resolution. Although obviously preferable for law enforcement to just act now and get their behinds into custody! It is not coincidence that everything just miraculously came together to enable their nuptials, and departure from all parental and familial responsibilities.

I started out this case thinking that Lori was no question the dominant personality in their relationship and how they came to be together and all that entailed - including the deaths and disappearances. Now I'm leaning more towards Chad.

It didn't seem like that to me initially because I can see (imo) how she has made her own decisions here, involving her brother Alex, her own late husband and her missing children, and her sociopathic traits. But, if she was the dominant one (and I do believe there has to be a dominant one in relationships involving surrounding death and destruction, for there to be chemistry), I think it's important to note that Chad has been deluded (imo) for much longer than Lori, and that if he didn't know before about what Lori did to get out of her former life he does now. It hasn't moved him. He's resolute and defiant. His arrogance is greater than hers. She looks to him for reaction a few times when Nate is asking questions. His raised eyebrows and eye rolls speak more to me than her sunglasses and pursed lips, she glances at the notice in her hand, she attempts to conceal her baggie of money when Nate points it out, and she seemingly couldn't resist making one response to Nate. She is listening and Chad is not.

I've revisited some of what I've been able to find about folie-a-deux, shared delusions/psychosis. There is an interesting case study at the below link of a husband and wife who met and married within weeks and then isolated themselves socially before commiting murder, despite it most commonly occurring in people who have known each other a long time.

It states that -

the primary case is typically dominant, intelligent , forceful, and autonomous. The secondary case is usually dependant, submissive, highly suggestible, less intelligent, more passive, infantile, and more prone to hysteria (5,6). He/she offers little resistance to accepting the ideas of the primary subject and does not elaborate upon those ideas. Several authors have characterized the passive person with a premorbid personality as " prepsychotic," and with "a marked personality disturbance with suspicious, histrionic, antisocial, or dependent traits" (6). Social isolation of the subjects is common in this form of folie a deux and has been found to limit environmental input and opportunities for reality testing. However, one reassuring feature of folie impose'e is that psychotic symptoms usually recede upon separation of the involved subjects. https://jdc.jefferson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1339&context=jeffjpsychiatry

It's worrying - to me - because I had wondered if pleading to his sensibilities and ties as a family man, playing to his ignorance of the trail that precedes Lori (even if he wasn't ignorant), might be the way in. Now I think she is the one who was susceptible, her sociopathy was a vital ingredient to her resolving what 'needed' to be done in her life to get into Chad's, and predisposed her to being attracted to his grandiosity, and sharing in the 'enlightenment' and power. I believe he thinks he is untouchable because he is 'chosen' and he is the primary mover in this partnership, and Lori bought into his delusion, and she then went through a process of convincing herself she is equally untouchable, as his mistress, before Charles was shot.

Given that, I think they will need to be forcibly separated and there will be no other way of resolving this or pleading to either of them to do the right thing. Failing apprehension by law enforcement, I think Lori will die before he is taken. It is a twist on those folk who say he is the one who should be sleeping with one eye open.

MOO

This is very thought provoking. Early on, we had discussed the idea of shared psychosis and your post expands on this idea wonderfully. I agree with your point of view. We can all see that we are far from any kind of typical sociopathic behavior in this case. There are too many players involved. The pressure that reality is imposing via LE, the Woodcocks, Colby, Matt, Adam and the investigative journalists may soon become unbearable for them. Desperation may call for desperate measures. I hope they are under 24 hour surveillance. I will really be disappointed if they are not. We need to find these kids.

 

[Gardener1850]

I’m trying to remember....when did Chad and Lori first meet?

We don't know for sure, but Kay says in her presser that she believes they may have met in 2016 or 2017 (around the 10 minute mark; also the comment about Lori sending a dancing video to Chad in Jan 2019 is just before that):

I just added that info to the timeline. Lori's friend also gave an interview in Dec 2019 saying that Lori first became obsessed with Chad's books about 4 years ago. So that would mean Lori read his books around 2015 and may have met him a year later. MOO.