Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

[Avocado49]

One more observation on Dateline - both Hawaii Friend and Missionary Friend state that end times according to both Chad and Lori will bad. It was insinuated that it may be better for the children and maybe Tammy (?) that it would be better to wait it out in the peace of death.

LE - please arrest these people. They are a clear and present danger to society.

That theory doesn’t even apply to Charles, etc. though because Lori also thought he was evil and a demon so that is why he had to die.
I agree they are dangerous!!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Just thinking out loud...maybe the killing of Charles and in the case of BB, his attempted murder, were orchestrated by Chad to make Chad feel safe that the people around Lori (Alex and Melani - 'survivors') would have their own guilty secrets and would not out him for his intended murder of Tammy. So you arrange the survivors' silence by getting them involved in criminal activity, and eliminate the ones who cannot be so compromised. And then you eliminate people inside the safe circle if it looks like they've been rumbled (Alex). Charles had to go because divorce would leave him alive to observe Chad as the orchestrator and safeguard the children, and life insurance they thought they would get was an added bonus.

This makes Chad's only true goals killing Tammy and marrying Lori. He wanted to progress his affair. If it's true I'd say the orchestration of this dates back to when he started predicting Tammy's death, when those around him may not even be aware he had met Lori. I wonder when she started reading his books. He needed to convert people who were close to Lori, who might stand in his way, by fixing new spouses from his circle of believers, and manipulate them by giving them 'spiritual' justification.

MOO

I don't buy it--yet....but I can really see where you are coming from. As if...this crime just sortof maybe could have just been that typical mid-life-crisis of absolute lust...and he couldn't have it unless he got rid of his wife. Wow... all along, I have been giving so much credence to his religious beliefs "guiding his" horrible behaviour (to be saved in the end),,, maybe it really is that massive infatuation with this little Barbie type. gotta think about it..

HE seems genuinely satisfied that there will be a better outcome than most people think including myself. I wonder what he knows that could jeopardize this case potentially... There has to be some crucial info not yet in play within the public domain that might get revealed in days to come..

 

[kye0001]

if the kids are with Zulema, where were they on the day Alex died and JL found him? I shudder to think those kids are being isolated/caged in a home where another murder/death has taken place.

I doubt they were as emergency services were in the house that day and they weren’t seen. Unless she had sent them quickly to a friend or neighbour...hence her coming in just before the medics arrived. You would think though that after reading that AC had died if someone had cared for the kids for ZP at that time they’d put two and two together and let the LE know. Even with an anonymous call. I can’t see TR or JJ staying quiet if they were hidden somewhere and they could hear their uncle was in trouble/dying. A 7 year old with ASD in a panic type situation couldn’t be quiet if he was trying to be IMO.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Just thinking out loud...maybe the killing of Charles and in the case of BB, his attempted murder, were orchestrated by Chad to make Chad feel safe that the people around Lori (Alex and Melani - 'survivors') would have their own guilty secrets and would not out him for his intended murder of Tammy. So you arrange the survivors' silence by getting them involved in criminal activity, and eliminate the ones who cannot be so compromised. And then you eliminate people inside the safe circle if it looks like they've been rumbled (Alex). Charles had to go because divorce would leave him alive to observe Chad as the orchestrator and safeguard the children, and life insurance they thought they would get was an added bonus.

This makes Chad's only true goals killing Tammy and marrying Lori. He wanted to progress his affair. If it's true I'd say the orchestration of this dates back to when he started predicting Tammy's death, when those around him may not even be aware he had met Lori. I wonder when she started reading his books. He needed to convert people who were close to Lori, who might stand in his way, by fixing new spouses from his circle of believers, and manipulate them by giving them 'spiritual' justification.

MOO

I don't buy it--yet....but I can really see where you are coming from. As if...this crime just sortof maybe could have just been that typical mid-life-crisis of absolute lust...and he couldn't have it unless he got rid of his wife. Wow... all along, I have been giving so much credence to his religious beliefs "guiding his" horrible behaviour (to be saved in the end)

That is an interesting theory. Perhaps Lori coordinated Alex and ZP’s marriage in order for Alex to get a “free” name change to disguise his identity, hence the “cold” ceremony with no witnesses.

Then, when the heat was on, Lori may have given ZP the go ahead to get rid of Alex in the same (or similar) way that worked so well with Tammy. (Or asked Alex to take his own life in that manner.)

Based on Lori’s friend in the Dateline episode, Lori views death as a simple movement through a doorway, so she wouldn’t feel upset for orchestrating anyone’s death, as she is so confident about everyone’s status on the “other side”.

,,, maybe it really is that massive infatuation with this little Barbie type. gotta think about it..

HE seems genuinely satisfied that there will be a better outcome than most people think including myself. I wonder what he knows that could jeopardize this case potentially... There has to be some crucial info not yet in play within the public domain that might get revealed in days to come..

HA ha ha! Like maybe Lori convinced Alex to get an insurance policy!!!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I would definitely watch the Dateline episode if you have it available. While it mainly skimmed over what we already know there were some new things.
I watched it live and also have it recorded and can go back but what was extremely interesting is how the media and LE worked together before they served the warrant in Hawaii. I wonder what else the media is possibly holding back on right now? Something that was strangely absent was no mention of Melanies quick marriage? They talk about BB shooting but that is about it. Could it be correct that Melanie is working with LE? (Someone unverified posted an e-mail in other media) That could be a reason to make her off limits? I know time constraints to the program would not allow every detail but thought it strange they didn’t throw it in with Alex’s quicky marriage. IMO

wow...interesting thought. I keep seeing MBp and IP as more involved with the criminal activity... thankful for you posting a different angle here.

 

[justice be served]

I don't buy it--yet....but I can really see where you are coming from. As if...this crime just sortof maybe could have just been that typical mid-life-crisis of absolute lust...and he couldn't have it unless he got rid of his wife. Wow... all along, I have been giving so much credence to his religious beliefs "guiding his" horrible behaviour (to be saved in the end)


,,, maybe it really is that massive infatuation with this little Barbie type. gotta think about it..

HA ha ha! Like maybe Lori convinced Alex to get an insurance policy!!!

Well, let's hope that Lori didn't take out insurance on her kids though I wouldn't put anything past her. Okay, I don't know the woman, but oh boy she's a piece of work.

 

[Andreee]

wow...interesting thought. I keep seeing MBp and IP as more involved with the criminal activity... thankful for you posting a different angle here.

I wonder if LE is constantly keeping a 24-hour watch on the couple in Hawaii in some manner. One good thing, if they stay on that island, it will be easier to keep an eye on them than if they were on the mainland as there are limited transportation methods at present for them. Even a watercraft would be hard to avoid detection.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

It was reported that she was shopping online for beach style wedding dresses before the death of TD. Wonder if she is still shopping amazon.

Honestly, nowadays not so hard to shop anonymously. You get a prepaid card, burner phone and a disposable email. The company really only needs to verify that the payment method matches the billing address. The billing address could be a USPS or private mailbox. But, good point, she probably had to adjust her online shopping habits.

 

[Avocado49]

One more observation on Dateline - both Hawaii Friend and Missionary Friend state that end times according to both Chad and Lori will bad. It was insinuated that it may be better for the children and maybe Tammy (?) that it would be better to wait it out in the peace of death.

LE - please arrest these people. They are a clear and present danger to society.

That theory doesn’t even apply to Charles, etc. though because Lori also thought he was evil and a demon so that is why he had to die.
I agree they are dangerous!!

Just as a "Devil's Advocate" question, why would she lose custody of her children? Both of the Fathers are dead. That leaves Grandparents of JJ. What standing do they really have? Grandparents rights for visitation? Pretty nonexistent.

Idaho law on Grandparents rights

"The court may award visitation rights if visitation is in the child's best interest. Adoption cuts off all visitation rights of grandparents."

Grandparents' Rights in Idaho
Which means, because JJ is adopted, that cut off all visitation rights of Grandparents.


Lori doesn't even have to show up, they literally have no real standing. Sadly.

Certainly the harm that Lori has done to the children (by keeping them locked up in hiding somewhere alone, abandonment by their only living parent/adoptive parent, etc) is grounds for the state to take custody of the kids. After that, hopefully Lori will be in jail, but if not she will have to fight to get custody BACK. And you have these other good guardianship options available (JJ’s biograndparents who were always in his life, have actually been searching for him, have the money to raise him and provide for him that his adoptive father Charles intended, etc.). Lori will have to come up with money for a lawyer to fight for JJ, who she obviously doesn’t care about/want to raise. I don’t see her winning back her kids.

 

[KonaHonu]

I was wondering that myself last Sunday. They aren't necesarily going to attend the closest. The church has lines drawn out designating specific geograpical areas that are in specific wards and the ward or wards (two or three is common in areas where needed unless things have drasically changed) meet at a specific church building. If it was their intent to be there medium to long term and have their records transferred then this would matter to some degree. (There are exceptions, for example "single" wards in some areas and I think possibly other situations beyond that.) However, as others have mentioned, visiting any ward isn't going to be a problem and if their plan is to be a visitor for multiple weeks, but not to have their records transferred for the long term then it wouldn't matter. Possibly there is some reason they do want the ward they've been going to or don't want the ward or wards that meet closer to them. Do we know where Lori lived when she was in Hawaii before? Is it in the area closer to the church they are going to or the one closer to where they are staying?

She previously lived in Princeville which is closer to Hanalei. They now appear to be attending in Kapaa which is close to the hotels they are staying at. The rental home they had in January was also in Princeville.

I'm not LDS so I have no idea how this works. But I will point out that Hanalei is going to be very local, Princeville is going to be tourists and rich people. Kapaa more working class to middle class. I'm not sure if any of that matters but may have been a factor in laying out the wards, especially since Princeville is a relatively new development while the others would probably have been laid out by some of the original missionaries when the geography was quite different, at least in terms of where people lived and the cultures.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

I don't buy it--yet....but I can really see where you are coming from. As if...this crime just sortof maybe could have just been that typical mid-life-crisis of absolute lust...and he couldn't have it unless he got rid of his wife. Wow... all along, I have been giving so much credence to his religious beliefs "guiding his" horrible behaviour (to be saved in the end),,, maybe it really is that massive infatuation with this little Barbie type. gotta think about it..

Possibly Occam’s Razor might apply, hard to know at this point. MOO

Occam's razor - Wikipedia

 

[Randocalrissian]

I have a question, if you are LDS dont you attend the nearest ward? Hanalei would be closer to them if they are/were in Princeville, why wouldnt they go to that one?

Yes, if you intend to move your records, and permanently attend the ward. If you are just visiting, you can go anywhere.

 

[Avocado49]

Idaho, Utah, Nevada, and Arizona are vast and sparsely populated. it is truly the wild west. You can pretty much drive 25 miles in any direction from major towns and dispose of a body that will never be found. Pings and Gps can narrow a search some and still not bring you close. If my math is right, we are talking about searching 4 million square miles. A gas station video from Winnemucca, Nevada last September, isn't going to tell you where the kids are today.

It has been explained so many times why these two have not been arrested, that I have nothing to add.

I think the only way we will find the kids or their bodies is through expert interrogation of Lori and Chad.

 

[justice be served]

I think the only way we will find the kids or their bodies is through expert interrogation of Lori and Chad.

So let's get that goin'!

 

[Randocalrissian]

The Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Samoa do not extradite to the US. The first two are almost like being in the US because of the Compact of Free Association. But that could also give the feds some leverage. All are nice tropical islands that would not be too hard to get to from Hawaii.

Don’t give them any ideas.

 

[DogMom146]

SBM.

Your comment just sparked a thought. I don't know if it's even feasible or not... I'm probably pretty far out in left field with this... And these are admittedly some pretty crazy questions... But is there any laws against crossing state lines to hide evidence of the commission of a crime in another state? Could Tammy's body be considered physical evidence if she's been found to have been poisoned? And the act of transporting her body from Idaho to Utah for burial could be considered as Chad trying to hide said evidence, making it harder for LE to investigate the commission of a crime? And would that advance jurisdiction from a local/county/state to a federal level because it's transporting criminal acts/things across state lines?

I don’t know if this has been answered yet. I’m trying to keep up.
I recently had a family member die in Utah. The funeral home in Idaho made the arrangements for the body to be transported back to Idaho. There was an autopsy by the Utah corner. So we had to wait for that. However, it’s pretty common where so many communities are related between Utah and Idaho for funeral homes to make those arrangements. As long as Tammy’s funeral was handled by a funeral home, those would be arrangements that were likely made.
Added after a re-read: @Onsdag If I understand right, it’s not the transport of the body across state lines (which is common) that you’re questioning. It’s Chad’s intent, and is it criminal if his intent was to hide evidence? That, I don’t know. Sorry for my initial misunderstanding.

 

[CSIDreamer]

This was a disappointment to me. I am convinced that MBp and IP have much more to do with this than we are hearing...so was somewhat surprised by the absense of detail. But thought, maybe this is a secret weapon with authorities right now...and everyone must be silent. We shall se..

There were a couple of notables that weren't mentioned. I suspect they may be cooperating witnesses. Jmo

 

[meanmaryjean]

I think the only way we will find the kids or their bodies is through expert interrogation of Lori and Chad.

But I think that would require one of them having a conscience - which I find unlikely.

 

[renarde]

I have a question, if you are LDS dont you attend the nearest ward? Hanalei would be closer to them if they are/were in Princeville, why wouldnt they go to that one?

Maybe they don't want to run into old acquaintances?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Has anyone found evidence to who may have predicted a precise date of July 22nd? Is it a Chad date? Is anyone else touting that specific date?

Somewhere I heard someone attacking Chads dates... that somewhere there is prophecy that July 2020 IS significant, but not as the END of the world, rather the BEGINNING of the civil war leading up to whatever is going to happen later.... So I believe this specific date is buried within this AVOW group, and wish some ex-AVOWer would speak up.