Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

[PinkPrincessPoop]

The Woodcocks have a good case because they are related by blood to JJ (Lori is not) and they took care of JJ in their home for a year. Because of JJ's disability, they may also ask for proof that he has seen a licensed or board-certified doctor and therapist in this time-frame....if Lori can't provide evidence, this will look bad. Lori has had a previous CPS investigation, the Woodcocks did not. Among many other things about Lori (and Chad for that matter) that could be dragged into this civil case.

I still haven't watched the Dateline as it hasn't come up again on TV or anywhere else. But it's seeming like LE is really going after LV & CD for everything - fraud, conspiracy to commit murder, etc. A lot of elements and a lot of states are at play and they probably want things to be timed and go off perfectly. It might take a long time. We will need to be patient.

From what you guys are saying on here - if it's true LE knew the children were missing back in November but MSM/press did not get wind until December - I think that is further proof that from the very beginning, LE did not in any way expect to find these children alive. Sad. MOO.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

A few of my key takeaways from Dateline last night and things I didn't know:

Any mention of Lori's son CR was strangely absent. MB wasn't really discussed either. I'm now curious if they're material witnesses (as well as ZP) or what's going on there. Where are they, what are they doing?

All those really heavy totes being carried into and out of the storage unit. Yikes.

Lori's friend in Kauai - lots of information from her, which was illuminating. But it made me feel concerned for her safety that she revealed all of that and is living near them in Kauai.

BB thought the gun was a paintball gun at first... TD thought it was a paintball gun.

Rexburg LE waited two weeks before doing the welfare check for JJ.

The history of the relationship between Lori and ZP, and Loris admiration of her "abilities," don't remember how they worded it - I didn't realize the extent of that.

I would like to know when are/were the dates for their flights to Mexico.

I could clearly feel that the people being interviewed have been coached on what and what not to say, so that they wouldn't compromise the investigation or even so that they would potentially help the investigation.

I agree with whoever said that the escalator at the end was a nice touch. It was also a bit frustrating because I've lost hope that the kids are alive (okay, maybe there is a tiny bit there), and these two seem so smug and are running around free --

-- even though my brain realizes that LE is going through the necessary process. This is all clearly a bigger ongoing investigation than I realized, at least in the beginning. I feel that there is so much that LE (and those close to this case) knows that we don't, and I'm now more curious than ever. I just hope nothing else happens to anyone before there is resolution.

you Nailed It. I felt, almost to a T, the very same takeaways... the absence of CR and MBp was remarkable to me. The Mexico thing was so incomplete... And without anything about MBp when she actually was arrested...just makes more think more and more that MBp and IP are move involved than ever. My biggest question has always been....Where is the Money? IP working for Melaleuca for as long as he has.... I just keep wanting to know more and more, ANYTHING about IP. So dead silent.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

I don't buy it--yet....but I can really see where you are coming from. As if...this crime just sortof maybe could have just been that typical mid-life-crisis of absolute lust...and he couldn't have it unless he got rid of his wife. Wow... all along, I have been giving so much credence to his religious beliefs "guiding his" horrible behaviour (to be saved in the end)

If, Chad Daybell, truly embraced mainstream LDS beliefs, and he was involved in an extramarital affair AND he approached leadership in the church, he would have been counseled by leadership, disfellowshipped, and given an opportunity for redemption, for a period of one year.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

A few of my key takeaways from Dateline last night and things I didn't know:

Any mention of Lori's son CR was strangely absent. MB wasn't really discussed either. I'm now curious if they're material witnesses (as well as ZP) or what's going on there. Where are they, what are they doing?

All those really heavy totes being carried into and out of the storage unit. Yikes.

Lori's friend in Kauai - lots of information from her, which was illuminating. But it made me feel concerned for her safety that she revealed all of that and is living near them in Kauai.

BB thought the gun was a paintball gun at first... TD thought it was a paintball gun.

Rexburg LE waited two weeks before doing the welfare check for JJ.

The history of the relationship between Lori and ZP, and Loris admiration of her "abilities," don't remember how they worded it - I didn't realize the extent of that.

I would like to know when are/were the dates for their flights to Mexico.

I could clearly feel that the people being interviewed have been coached on what and what not to say, so that they wouldn't compromise the investigation or even so that they would potentially help the investigation.

I agree with whoever said that the escalator at the end was a nice touch. It was also a bit frustrating because I've lost hope that the kids are alive (okay, maybe there is a tiny bit there), and these two seem so smug and are running around free --

-- even though my brain realizes that LE is going through the necessary process. This is all clearly a bigger ongoing investigation than I realized, at least in the beginning. I feel that there is so much that LE (and those close to this case) knows that we don't, and I'm now more curious than ever. I just hope nothing else happens to anyone before there is resolution.

you Nailed It. I felt, almost to a T, the very same takeaways... the absence of CR and MBp was remarkable to me. The Mexico thing was so incomplete... And without anything about MBp when she actually was arrested...just makes more think more and more that MBp and IP are move involved than ever. My biggest question has always been....Where is the Money? IP working for Melaleuca for as long as he has.... I just keep wanting to know more and more, ANYTHING about IP. So dead silent.

What I have read about this faction

Tangent: (I don't think cult is quite right. This isn't a group with a leader. This is a disgruntled group of LDS ppl with shared interests who are feeding off of each others' "visions". They call themselves the Remnant, not to be confused with the Snuffer Remnant, and about 3 other Remnant-named LDS offshoots). I'm choosing faction because they are mostly LDS members in good standing who think they have a higher/different calling than the Prophet of the mainline LDS church. MOO end tangent.

What I have read is that you must be married *to a believer* to be a leader in the end times. MOO that is the only reason the additional couples re/married so quickly. Chad and Lori, I believe had additional motives--like list.

MOO

Very helpful. These Remnant groups remain very confusing...but the "group without a leader" is actually quite interesting...n

 

[canyonoflight]

I thought about what was "new" from Dateline last night and possibly could be added to our timeline. We now know that when Lori took Tylee to Hawaii, she stayed with her friend April. Also, April said Tylee slept in a lot and stayed in her room a lot during that trip and she took it as maybe she was depressed or just normal teen behavior.
Lori talked non-stop about Chad Daybell and the end of world stuff, so much so that April couldn't even grasp it all. Lori also said she "expected at any time a phone call that Charles had died"

Whoa at her waiting for a phone call. What was the friend's reaction to that?

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Oh also @GoneGoldfishin' I'm sorry you had that experience! You are right, it's incredibly rare for children to be taken away from their parents. My sister used to work for Child Services. She eventually left that career because it made her too depressed. Even if abuse/neglect is found, top priority is reconciliation - meaning trying to force bad parents to be good parents. Of course, this also requires the children to be present as part of the process. Which is why I think LV won't be given the common grace of reconciliation. You can't reconcile with air.

 

[Gardener1850]

I didn't see if this link was posted yet: Why haven’t Chad and Lori been arrested?

ETA: Some options are given for what Lori and Chad could be charged with in the link.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

If, Chad Daybell, truly embraced mainstream LDS beliefs, and he was involved in an extramarital affair AND he approached leadership in the church, he would have been counseled by leadership, disfellowshipped, and given an opportunity for redemption, for a period of one year.

Do you really think, based on all of the other data that he would have approached Leadership? Someone up-thread knew he, for a fact, was not excommunicated, but said he had to say nothing more, telling me that there was something more. Would this possible "disfellowship" be a precursor to excommunication? I often believe Chad IS "burdoned" by mainstream LDS... and it filters into so many of his decisions... But Lori, ...i dunno what is the context of one who violates rule after rule, and doctrine after doctrine, and still sortof kindof wants to be "a Believer". Her actions all the way along just seem to violate the principles of the Church.

 

[spandangly]

Do you know of any additional "basic" rules within this faction? Does each faction seem to create it's own rules?

MOO. Not off the top of my head. If I think of anything relevant I'll share. I love the community here but frankly this case is so bonkers that most of the information requires a deep dive into places we're not able to link, quote, or reference. That makes it very difficult. And I think their beliefs are very important to what's going on, but it's also more complex, because there is lust (at least) intertwined.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Do you really think, based on all of the other data that he would have approached Leadership? Someone up-thread knew he, for a fact, was not excommunicated, but said he had to say nothing more, telling me that there was something more. Would this possible "disfellowship" be a precursor to excommunication? I often believe Chad IS "burdoned" by mainstream LDS... and it filters into so many of his decisions... But Lori, ...i dunno what is the context of one who violates rule after rule, and doctrine after doctrine, and still sortof kindof wants to be "a Believer". Her actions all the way along just seem to violate the principles of the Church.

Bbm
That's what is known as a "jack mormon". I think in some ways they are given more leeway than people like Chad, because they aren't usually put in leadership positions. This thing with the podcast and fringe groups and "special gifts" etc is a new layer, where they are kind of straddling two different sources to feed their narcissism and delusions. Moo.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

I don't buy it--yet....but I can really see where you are coming from. As if...this crime just sortof maybe could have just been that typical mid-life-crisis of absolute lust...and he couldn't have it unless he got rid of his wife. Wow... all along, I have been giving so much credence to his religious beliefs "guiding his" horrible behaviour (to be saved in the end)

If, Chad Daybell, truly embraced mainstream LDS beliefs, and he was involved in an extramarital affair AND he approached leadership in the church, he would have been counseled by leadership, disfellowshipped, and given an opportunity for redemption, for a period of one year.

Do you really think, based on all of the other data that he would have approached Leadership? Someone up-thread knew he, for a fact, was not excommunicated, but said he had to say nothing more, telling me that there was something more. Would this possible "disfellowship" be a precursor to excommunication? I often believe Chad IS "burdoned" by mainstream LDS... and it filters into so many of his decisions... But Lori, ...i dunno what is the context of one who violates rule after rule, and doctrine after doctrine, and still sortof kindof wants to be "a Believer". Her actions all the way along just seem to violate the principles of the Church.

He served a mission so, yes, based on background, being disfellowshipped is a precursor to excommunication. He knows the rules.

 

[KCVA]

Honestly, nowadays not so hard to shop anonymously. You get a prepaid card, burner phone and a disposable email. The company really only needs to verify that the payment method matches the billing address. The billing address could be a USPS or private mailbox. But, good point, she probably had to adjust her online shopping habits.

Yes and the packages they mailed to themselves at the Kauai rental that the neighbor reported. Presumably after signing the lease. There must be usps/ups/fedex tracking. There is obviously online access to tracking shipping & packages. Amazon prime??? Tied to the book sales ? CVs account? Easily traceable where they are sending ship to addresses over the last 6-12 months IMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes, wasn’t this the same time period when Alex left his garage open for a few weeks, and when Lori got back, she yelled at him in the street? Maybe she thought he was a “disgrace to the family” because he didn’t manage to kill Charles while she was gone?

This statement "a disgrace to the family" has been mentioned a few times.......just keep thinking that this is a projection back on herself without knowing it (narcissist). And then I think...how in heavens name could this woman say such a thing with 5 husbands, and a renegade of a father, etc. etc. It just sounds so parochial which is so contrary to her life....But i do feel it means she had some real controls over Alex.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

you Nailed It. I felt, almost to a T, the very same takeaways... the absence of CR and MBp was remarkable to me. The Mexico thing was so incomplete... And without anything about MBp when she actually was arrested...just makes more think more and more that MBp and IP are move involved than ever. My biggest question has always been....Where is the Money? IP working for Melaleuca for as long as he has.... I just keep wanting to know more and more, ANYTHING about IP. So dead silent.

I think “money” might be a key word here. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

No, because the death had already been investigated and released by LEO in Idaho.

But it does beg the question...WHY did LE begin to investigate her death before knowing anything about the missing children OR the events in AZ. Something made them to change her death to suspicous...WHY WHY??

 

[utahobserver]

I didn't see if this link was posted yet: Why haven’t Chad and Lori been arrested?

ETA: Some options are given for what Lori and Chad could be charged with in the link.

This is a great article. Very informative. Thanks!

 

[KonaHonu]

MOO. Not off the top of my head. If I think of anything relevant I'll share. I love the community here but frankly this case is so bonkers that most of the information requires a deep dive into places we're not able to link, quote, or reference. That makes it very difficult. And I think their beliefs are very important to what's going on, but it's also more complex, because there is lust (at least) intertwined.

I think their beliefs are key, but not the LDS part. I also think AVOW is extremely important.

I have been digging into some stuff on the sidelines and have found a lot of strange coincidences related to people who have not even been mentioned here. Unfortunately I can't post any of it here. I personally think IP, MBP, and ZP are important.

I asked many threads ago if there are others in the local area (Idaho) who have kind of dropped out of society starting last summer. I've actually found one or two that have not even been mentioned on here. It's all so very strange.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

If, Chad Daybell, truly embraced mainstream LDS beliefs, and he was involved in an extramarital affair AND he approached leadership in the church, he would have been counseled by leadership, disfellowshipped, and given an opportunity for redemption, for a period of one year.


He served a mission so, yes, based on background, being disfellowshipped is a precursor to excommunication. He knows the rules.

Can someone state the "actual "rules here". There has been back and forth as to whether he was excommunicated...but a VI stated that, in fact, he had not been excommunicated. WHY? What does that take? How would going to services in HI be influenced by what has gone down in ID (if he were truly devout)? I know folks just think this attending services is "show", but I have a hard time believing that going to services---given his status quo back in ID, would really truly be a no-no. Granted, they would not know at first, but clearly the bishops and stake-holders all know now. So WHY is he going to services?????

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I think their beliefs are key, but not the LDS part. I also think AVOW is extremely important.

I have been digging into some stuff on the sidelines and have found a lot of strange coincidences related to people who have not even been mentioned here. Unfortunately I can't post any of it here. I personally think IP, MBP, and ZP are important.

I asked many threads ago if there are others in the local area (Idaho) who have kind of dropped out of society starting last summer. I've actually found one or two that have not even been mentioned on here. It's all so very strange.

Bingo... I also feel this so strongly, especially IP's work connections. And KonaHonu.... I am still not totally totally convinced that BTO and ARO are not connected. ...for another day.

 

[Gardener1850]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Valentine’s Day. A day that meant so much to Charles Vallow. Kay Vallow Woodcock just shared something so personal with me. 2/14 was the wedding anniversary for Charles and Lori Vallow. Today would have been 14 years. Valentine’s Day 2019 — Kay watched Charles take his ring off with tears in his eyes. She says he told her “I can’t believe this is happening.” 2/14/20 — here we are. Charles isn’t. Photo courtesy: Kay Woodcock

I'm just noticing that the actual marriage record for Lori and Charles says they got married on Feb 24th, 2006. It can be looked up here: Clark Records Search And Order System

Is it possible they had a sealing ceremony in the Temple first on Feb 14th? Or is the Temple ceremony always after getting a civil marriage license? Charles reportedly converted to LDS for Lori but I don't know if he converted before or after they married.

Alternatively, I wondered if Charles possibly proposed on Valentine's Day and they got married 10 days later in Las Vegas?

Or maybe Kay is simply remembering the wedding date incorrectly. CV did sign divorce papers on Valentines Day 2019 and being 10 days before his 13th wedding anniversary that must have been difficult for him.

MOO.