Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

[KonaHonu]

I agree it is one way for her to have knowledge. But the question is rather, did she have actual knowledge? So while I agree no law says she must monitor a court action in which she is most likely represented by counsel, it will be hard to pretend she doesn't know the outcome.



Again the scenario I am specifically suggesting is that local LE will arrive on the doorstep, with a copy of the Court order, and say "Mrs Vallow/Daybill, the Court of Idaho has assumed emergency custody. Here is the order and we are now here to enforce it. Please immediately advise where the children are"

At the moment she refuses to tell them, she commits a felony and she can no longer deny knowledge.

Nor does she require time to comply. She can answer immediately.

It is the action of continuing to keep the location hidden that is the actus reus. She need only say where they are. so LE can go get them. She does not need to bring them to Hawaii, not travel to where they are.

Uh, At that moment she says "I am represented by counsel in Idaho. Talk to my lawyer." She is not obligated to understand and comply with the court order. Obviously the volleyball ends with her having to comply but it takes a while.

 

[KonaHonu]

I agree it is one way for her to have knowledge. But the question is rather, did she have actual knowledge? So while I agree no law says she must monitor a court action in which she is most likely represented by counsel, it will be hard to pretend she doesn't know the outcome.



Again the scenario I am specifically suggesting is that local LE will arrive on the doorstep, with a copy of the Court order, and say "Mrs Vallow/Daybill, the Court of Idaho has assumed emergency custody. Here is the order and we are now here to enforce it. Please immediately advise where the children are"

At the moment she refuses to tell them, she commits a felony and she can no longer deny knowledge.

Nor does she require time to comply. She can answer immediately.

It is the action of continuing to keep the location hidden that is the actus reus. She need only say where they are. so LE can go get them. She does not need to bring them to Hawaii, not travel to where they are.

And if she says, my attorney hired a separate attorney to hide them because they are in danger from LE. Yeah, that will fail but only weeks or months from now.

 

[mrjitty]

Uh, At that moment she says "I am represented by counsel in Idaho. Talk to my lawyer." She is not obligated to understand and comply with the court order. Obviously the volleyball ends with her having to comply but it takes a while.

No way will that fly. Again, actual knowledge is required. One she is told, she has actual knowledge. Pretending not to understand is not a defence. Nor can you get around it by pretending not to talk to your own attorney.

And if she says, my attorney hired a separate attorney to hide them because they are in danger from LE. Yeah, that will fail but only weeks or months from now.

Then she gets arrested as she is clearly obstructing the State's custody rights

There are no "clever" ways around it.

 

[tresir2012]

Following you... "if CD truly


embraced mainstream LDS beliefs"... would the Leadership even be able to consider the questionable death of Tammy, IF not proven?

Do we have any insight to Tammy having insurance, and if or if not it was paid out. I know that LE suspicion of Tammy's death came out before any knowledge of missing kids or AZ deaths.... so if they thought it was suspicious, would insurance have held up payout.

I think LE confirmed she had it and other posters established she would likely have it thru her work. We don't know the amount AFAIK.

 

[KonaHonu]

No way will that fly. Again, actual knowledge is required. One she is told, she has actual knowledge. Pretending not to understand is not a defence. Nor can you get around it by pretending not to talk to your own attorney.



Then she gets arrested as she is clearly obstructing the State's custody rights

There are no "clever" ways around it.

Acquaint yourself with recent Hawaii court rulings!

 

[tresir2012]

I just want to make sure to rule things out, and clarify if I have missed something. Are we CERTAIN that the kids are not in HI? Just wondering if there could have been any way they could have come in on a private plane?? Have we had any statement from LE that they have flight records of L and C and nobody else??

My opinion is that it is possible they could have flown under false names. Apparently kids under 18 do not need ID to fly interstate. We have had no statement from LE about this. But others will hopefully chip in on this too.

 

[mrjitty]

No. that is the point when her appeal rights begin. If she discloses their whereabouts the appeal becomes moot, right. So withholding that information is a legal necessity not a felony.

The answer to that would depend on what the Court orders.

e.g. If they stayed enforcement subject to an appeal.

Or Vallow might immediately appeal and seek a hold on enforcement. But that would require her to state grounds.

I think you are rather clutching at straws where the defendant files no meaningful case in opposition at first instance, but also refuses to comply.

 

[mrjitty]

Acquaint yourself with recent Hawaii court rulings!

Sure - which ones shall i read?

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah, it's been posted and discussed. A lot of people think it's a false ID, I hope it was real personally.

I do too. But the couple would be easy to trace from the ticket purchases so that has hopefully been done and ruled out.

 

[Friday Fan]

Wondering if they even have a longer term plan worked out? How long can their relationship sustain this fugitive lifestyle before it all falls apart.

That will be their downfall. We may not see justice, but we may see schadenfreude. OK that sounds bad, but so many of these cases escape justice, that the thought of Lori being broke and having messy hair etc etc is a small measure of justice.

 

[A little bit intuitive]

(Tongue firmly in cheek here) The beach is a great place to prepare. You can catch your own fish, gather mollusks and crustaceans, and uni! Above the beach there are tropical fruits. Farther mauka (upland) you can hunt pig, gather sweet potatoes, taro, mango, avocado, and who knows what else. The Hawaiians thrived here for over a thousand years. I am sure that C&L's time on the beach is purely dedicated to learning survival skills they will need later to grow tropical fruit in the Rockies.

Karma's a bugger - lots of Kiawe down the beach too!
(- just had to say )
For those reading this not from Hawaii- kiawe is a thorn bush we have at the beaches .

 

[bmacmillan1]

That will be their downfall. We may not see justice, but we may see schadenfreude. OK that sounds bad, but so many of these cases escape justice, that the thought of Lori being broke and having messy hair etc etc is a small measure of justice.

Well, I am also experiencing a bit of 'schadenfreude' (had to look the meaning up ) envisaging her with all her worldly goods inside only a suitcase and back pack...

 

[tresir2012]

Actually, I should be honest. I did join for a reason. I had a question that has been bugging me.

Have the police, MSM, friends, or anyone else looked into the possibility that Lori stashed the kids in one of those Utah LDS reform camps for troubled kids and teens? I don't have any evidence this could have happened at all but one of my LDS friends got sent to one in high school, and when she came back, she said that a lot of kids only got sent to them by their very religious parents or even in some cases, the state, because their care givers just wanted to be rid of them but still pay lip service to conservative values. If Lori and Chad really wanted to get rid of the kids, and they have money to burn, I could see them paying to send the kids away for a time rather than risk some more drastic action.

I don't know if this has any credence to it, but I just was wondering if it's came up as a possibility or not.

Have you any particular ones in mind that would take a 7 year old boy and a 17 year old girl or would they have to go to separate ones?
It's a good thought and welcome to WS.

ETA one of their fellow speakers runs a school which began in Sept 2019 and it did make me wonder.

 

[mrjitty]

my final .02 at this stage

We don't know what orders the court has under consideration or may have already made as regards the welfare of the children, but whatever the case, the Court won't be mugged off by silly buggers.

There seems to be a lack of immediate urgency - no searching, immediate custody action etc, so I guess the Court believes the situation won't get worse either way

IMO the Court understands that LV is not going to comply with an adverse custody order so that is not the play right now.

 

[tresir2012]

And why exactly wouldn't Chad and Lori say so to the police? Police asked them for proof of life. If kids are in reform camp, special school, or whatever, what would prevent Lori from saying so?

She doesn't want KW to have JJ, perhaps?

 

[tresir2012]

Did Lori’s brother have a life insurance policy? If so, could she have been the beneficiary?

This is probably something his new spouse/widow would be looking into I guess.

 

[tresir2012]

They don't think world actually ends in July, or where are they going to lead the 144,000 people?

To make a new Zion in the mountains. I am wondering if Chad and Lori have booked themselves on that Jesus Cruise.

 

[mrjitty]

To make a new Zion in the mountains. I am wondering if Chad and Lori have booked themselves on that Jesus Cruise.

Do people who believe in this stuff ever think what is going to happen when the Cities break down?

Like every man and his dog will be enroute to your mountain compound

I kind of laugh at rich people buying these end of times refuges

 

[tresir2012]

But isn't his estate in probate? Jmo

Yes it is and someone who he owed money to has a lien on it first IMO

 

[tresir2012]

I was thinking along those lines myself, who gives a hoot what happens after July (if I am putting myself into their mind set)?

After reading more I am in a different place. The beliefs I read allege there will be earthquakes, plagues, floods and all that sort of thing starting in July. "Preppers" are preparing for the time when those things start. Society collapses so money is worthless, you need gold instead, as one example. Agriculture will collapse so you need a bunch of canned and freeze dried food.

Preppers are spending time and money getting ready for the end times by collecting food, buying gold, training in survival, etc. They are not tanning and spending $500 per night or whatever it costs to be at the Marriott in Kauai.

MOO

We are already having these earthquakes, plagues and floods though aren't we? So I guess some may believe this could get worse. But an underground bunker in either an earthquake or a flood is not a good place to be. If you are on an inactive volcano though, you could likely survive it all.