IDI: Whats your problem?

[BBB167893]

An definitely had a MEAN tone.....don't try to grow a brain,you're not the only fact cat,victory

arrogant and mean if you ask me

Yep...like someone I know...

why would PR have that tone if she wrote it? doesn't make any sense

Makes sense to me.

John,John,John.....sounds more like implicating him than putting distance between him and what happened,if she wrote it as the cover-up why make it sound like the author knew her husband,that's not diverting attention, is it.

Sure it is. It allows you to cast suspicion on anyone who knew them. Remember that thread I made, "a Masterpiece of Misdirection?" Maybe we need a refresher.

Failing that, it's like I've always said: there truly is no honor among thieves.

 

[BBB167893]

The more I read Cynic, the more I understand that the investigators were only looking at the Ramseys from the beginning (or even before JBR was found). A bit like the RDI's on this forum, they dismissed anything inconsistent with their theory and magnified anything vaguely incriminating.

I completely disagree, for a couple of reasons.

 

[BBB167893]

That's what JR did.

JR: Well I’m, it’s a lot of screaming going on around that, but we saw the note and read the first part. Ah, I think I might have run upstairs to look in JonBenet’s room. At one point I laid it on the floor and spread it out so I could read it real fast without having to sit and read it. At some point we checked Burke, I think I checked Burke. Patsy asked what should we do, and I said call the police, and she called 911.

TT: Patsy called 911 (inaudible).

I think it's what you call "panic".

Tell me something: would YOU have your panic-stricken spouse make that call? I sure wouldn't.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Every male who was present at any time when Joni's body was transferred to the coroner, in the custody of the Boulder authorities, was present during any part of the autopsy and when any of her clothing was touched, removed, handled, examined after her murder should/must be tested for his DNA to rule out accidental/incidental contamination.

I think you're missing the point. I have been looking for ALL of THE possible paths for the genetic material of an unknown male to get to the inside crotch of JBR's underwear AND two (2) places on the longjohn waistband.

Present during autopsy isn't a path. Any of her clothing isn't a path either. Nobody yet has provided a clear path even once.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yet, the Ramseys didn't know what/who they were dealing with in this situation and for them to invite friends over right away, disregarding the warning of those claiming to have their daughter, was a precarious decision.

The 911 call, plus the contemporary reaction of not complying with criminal demands, may have precluded these decisions. IOW what you're calling a precarious decision was more automatic, and I don't believe the RN author knew they would call 911 before they even read the note. Thats just how stupid the RN author is.

 

[WHITEFANG]

The 911 call, plus the contemporary reaction of not complying with criminal demands, may have precluded these decisions. IOW what you're calling a precarious decision was more automatic, and I don't believe the RN author knew they would call 911 before they even read the note. Thats just how stupid the RN author is.

I think I'm getting your position. It was automatic, most likely, IMO2. It wasn't wise, though, based on the warning of someone who held their daughter captive, you know?

It doesn't indicate they knew all along there was no threat. Combined with evidence that they were involved, this has probative value, certainly. Don't you think?

 

[WHITEFANG]

I think you're missing the point. I have been looking for ALL of THE possible paths for the genetic material of an unknown male to get to the inside crotch of JBR's underwear AND two (2) places on the longjohn waistband.

Present during autopsy isn't a path. Any of her clothing isn't a path either. Nobody yet has provided a clear path even once.

Do you mean something like, a male assistant to the coroner, or, the male coroner, while preparing the body for or performing the autopsy, came in contact with these items with his bare hands or sneezed or coughed without sterile protection, as a path?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Do you mean something like, a male assistant to the coroner, or, the male coroner, while preparing the body for or performing the autopsy, came in contact with these items with his bare hands or sneezed or coughed without sterile protection, as a path?

A complete path should include the origin, each intermediate location, and the final destination. Male coroner sneeze to hands to JBR's body to JBR's inside crotch of her underwear is an example of a complete path. I'm looking for a collection of paths and then decide among those which is most or least likely.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I think I'm getting your position. It was automatic, most likely, IMO2. It wasn't wise, though, based on the warning of someone who held their daughter captive, you know?

It doesn't indicate they knew all along there was no threat. Combined with evidence that they were involved, this has probative value, certainly. Don't you think?

Probative value meaning that PR's 911 call seems to be more genuine panic and less acting, as acting would've been more compliant with the script they themselves wrote?

 

[WHITEFANG]

Probative value meaning that PR's 911 call seems to be more genuine panic and less acting, as acting would've been more compliant with the script they themselves wrote?

Yes. I think that is why it may be an issue. As in, in a "real-life" kidnapping who would defy a kidnapper's instructions so swiftly and openly, by inviting friends over and calling the cops, with a "real" threat of death hanging over the victim?

 

[DeeDee249]

Do you mean something like, a male assistant to the coroner, or, the male coroner, while preparing the body for or performing the autopsy, came in contact with these items with his bare hands or sneezed or coughed without sterile protection, as a path?

Given the unsterile procedures used in clipping JB's nails, I'd say anything is possible. That clipper could even have been used on a previous body, without being sterilized in between.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes. I think that is why it may be an issue. As in, in a "real-life" kidnapping who would defy a kidnapper's instructions so swiftly and openly, by inviting friends over and calling the cops, with a "real" threat of death hanging over the victim?

Parents with the good sense of when to call the police is the prima facie conclusion.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Given the unsterile procedures used in clipping JB's nails, I'd say anything is possible. That clipper could even have been used on a previous body, without being sterilized in between.

I understand that RDI would like the path of the genetic material from the unknown male to JBR to be as vague as possible, thereby avoiding commitment to a flawed or less likely scenario than the prima facie scenario.

 

[DeeDee249]

I understand that RDI would like the path of the genetic material from the unknown male to JBR to be as vague as possible, thereby avoiding commitment to a flawed or less likely scenario than the prima facie scenario.

Your opinion, BUT that doesn't change the FACT that Mayer did not follow proper sterile procedures with the nail clipper.

 

[MurriFlower]

Hi MurriFlower.

PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: What?
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.
PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please


When questioned, she was able to respond SBTC.

Where is this quote from please TP?

 

[DeeDee249]

Where is this quote from please TP?

This is from the 911 call. Patsy is talking to the 911 operator.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Your opinion, BUT that doesn't change the FACT that Mayer did not follow proper sterile procedures with the nail clipper.

So what if Meyer didn't use sterile clippers?

Unless you can describe in a plausible way how your so-called FACT would result in the genetic material from an unknown male in the inside crotch of JBR's underwear and on the waistband, your claim becomes irrelevant.

 

[Tadpole12]

Where is this quote from please TP?

Hi MurriFlower.

googled PR 911 call transcript and found this as source:

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f181/patsy-ramsey-911-call-transcript-8225/

 

[MurriFlower]

Hi MurriFlower.

PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: What?
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.
PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please


When questioned, she was able to respond SBTC.

Ok, it's on youtube too. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP-EeuFOMA[/ame]

It helps to hear it in real time. Begins at 1.47 if you don't want to watch as it contains the crime scene photos as well. When the operator says who took her, it seems to me as if she quickly looks at the end of the note and reads the final line looking for a signature and reads it backwards from the bottom. S.B.T.C. and Victory. Doesn't indicate that she read and digested the whole note before the call. Nor is it evidence that she wrote the RN. Sorry!

 

[MurriFlower]

Holdontoyourhat

I know we have different theories about what may have happened. I am forming an opinion on a blackmail/extortion gone wrong and I think you are taking the RN literally. Perhaps we aren't on the same track, but our paths might cross at some stage.

Remember I suggested that the RN had a lot of US and UK TV references and you said you didn't think the English would say "we don't respect" the USA? I was wondering if you had considered that the words "the country it serves" may not be referring to the USA, but to another country with whom Access had business dealings? Could it be that the "small foreign faction" was an anti-government faction within another country? Perhaps not the UK itself, but some former colony or at least still with ties to the UK and receiving UK and US TV? We were in an isolated area of New Zealand at one time where they received satellite TV (this was about 1986) from some US military channel so these types of services would have been available in 1996. If you have done some research on this and are prepared to share, I would appreciate your input. Otherwise, it just takes time to search for all these things.

TIA