IDI: Whats your problem?

[BBB167893]

Though all of this, I don't remember crying a single tear. It was as if it was a movie I was in, or a dream we were all sleepwalking through. After the funeral, it hit me- I cried for days and days.
I think when there is a horrific event like this, your body goes on automatic pilot and you just walk though it like a dream.

That's what I was trying to say.

That's an awful story, DD.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Personally, I explain it that by the time the cover-up got underway, she had cried herself out.

I am sure Patsy cried buckets of tears.

SD says no public tearing. DD says buckets of tears. Which is it?

 

[DeeDee249]

SD says no public tearing. DD says buckets of tears. Which is it?

Both. The tears need not have come that day. She had years to cry.

 

[DeeDee249]

That's what I was trying to say.

That's an awful story, DD.

It WAS awful. Three weeks after she was shot, all the girl cousins were supposed to be bridesmaids at the wedding of one of us. It was heartbreaking to have her gone. But you know, we got even. Or I should say, her father got even.
After that I got my firearms license. And I practice a lot. Police told me not to get a revolver because (this is offensively sexist) they said a "woman can't handle a gun with no safety. She can't keep cool under pressure". BULL. I will know EXACTLY who I am shooting if I have to shoot. I LOVE my .357 Magnum.
Intruder with gun + resident with NO gun = ZERO chance of surviving.
Intruder with gun + resident WITH gun = 50% chance of surviving.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Both. The tears need not have come that day. She had years to cry.

It seems that according to this, PR never cried in public. Is this right? What about these other sources that say she did?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

OK well the question was did she shed tears. Whilst these quotes don't actually count the number tears shed, 'crying' and 'sobbing' would tend to indicate tears IMO.

I admit I'm at a loss.

It seems to me that there are claims that PR cried not publicly, but rather before the so-called staging or privately, but I can't find anything to substantiate this. Were these claims dreamed up just now for our sake? Just pure fiction BS?

 

[MurriFlower]

Right, but that was after everything had gone down.

Yes, the second quote, but the first was at the time when the body was placed on the floor under the Christmas tree. The point I was trying to make was that she was not 'cried out' or 'dry eyed' as you were suggesting.

I doubt its veracity. Supposedly, she put on that makeup only a few moments before she found the note, got hysterical, etc., then greets the cops without an eyelash out of place? It doesn't wash.

'without an eyelash out of place'? To quote HOTYH, where do you GET this stuff? Let's supose someone actually did say this - it would have to be LA (an unbiased account that would have been!). OK, well then, it obviously points to her guilt (Not). So, lets just say the quote was something like, "when I arrived she looked a total mess, hair uncombed, mascara running down her face, lipstick smeared all over her mouth", etc - well RDI would say in a satisfied voice, of course she was disheveled, afterall she had just head bashed and garrotted her beloved daughter and spent a frantic few hours writing a RN and covering up the murder!! Proof positive. This is a no win situation for her as far as RDI is concerned. What doesn't wash is that it was evidence of anything, even if true.

That's not blowing things out of proportion, though. I started that thread purely as a "what if.

No it was others on the RDI bandwagon that were blowing things out of proportion.

 

[DeeDee249]

It seems that according to this, PR never cried in public. Is this right? What about these other sources that say she did?

According to what- my post? Where do I say that she never cried that day? I explained why she may NOT have- but as there are conflicting reports (from those who WERE there) I suppose either could be correct.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I doubt its veracity. Supposedly, she put on that makeup only a few moments before she found the note, got hysterical, etc., then greets the cops without an eyelash out of place? It doesn't wash.

No it doesn't. Speaking of not washing, she not only stated that she had put on her makeup before coming downstairs that morning, she made a point of noting that she had not bathed that morning either.

 

[MurriFlower]

No it doesn't. Speaking of not washing, she not only stated that she had put on her makeup before coming downstairs that morning, she made a point of noting that she had not bathed that morning either.

Disgusting!! Putting on make up and not washing - is there no end to this woman's crimes?

Perhaps she had a shower before she went out the previous evening. Does one need to have several showers per day in mid-winter where you live?

 

[WHITEFANG]

Right.



There were no other fibers tied into the garrote knots that I'm aware of.



And yet not only does PR confirm they were hers, it conflicts with what her own book says happened to boot. Mm, mm, mm...

I should have figured THAT was your source. Leaving aside how outdated that information might have been at the time, it doesn't establish that they were from that night at all.



That's right, mate. Here's the statement PR made that I keep referencing, from October 2002:

“When I - after John discovering the body, and she was brought to the living room, when I laid eyes on her, I knelt down and hugged her. But I was, had my whole body on her body. My sweater fibers, or whatever I had on that morning, are going to transfer to her clothing, OK?”

Ah, but there's a BIG problem with that. This is what JR said two years earlier in Death of Innocence:

Instantly, I rip the tape off her mouth, begging her to talk to me. I pull the blanket off her. I pick her up...run to the stairs...to the living room and lay JonBenet on the floor in front of the Christmas tree...Patsy is coming in the room...She must not see JonBenet like this. I get a blanket to cover Jonbenet. I lay the blanket over her.

JR establishes that JB was already covered before PR even came into the room. A FOXNews account (which I'll find--don't worry!) bears that out. Now, PR's story would explain how her fibers got on THAT blanket. It does not explain how they got into the cord knots, which she didn't touch, or the basement items, since she claimed she hadn't been in the basement. According to FOXNews, she didn't even lie on top of JB's top half.


Sometimes I'm absolutely dumbfounded when I read the proofs for the claims made in this case. Was the sweatshirt stapled in place? Was it subject to the laws of gravity? It was impossible for the coverings to fall a couple of inches or to be moved in the process of hugging the baby's corpse? (BTW, you don't think Patsy's snot was all over that kid?) How do you guys presume to understand what happened when you don't see the dynamics of tragedy, of loss, of heartbreak in everything that went on that day. (Please, don't bother to take a tiny slice of a scene and make it overwhelming important and use it indicate a fraud was underway. If Patsy normally blinked 9 times a minute and you discover she blinked 12 times a minute that morning, don't deduce she was making herself blink more frequently to appear she was distressed.) Some keep saying how loving Patsy was, how you feel for her and how much compassion you have for her. Without taking a breath, you hasten to add and dwell on her deviant, disgusting and pathological behavior. Include the warmth she showed them, or some unselfish act, or the patience she showed, too.

It is funny, because I want to shake you guys and say, "Look at her, crying, convulsing, screaming at the top of her lungs. Can't you perceive her distress? Can't you imagine the inexplicable grief she felt? Even if she killed her baby accidentally, according to your theory, she would still suffer grievously over her death. How could she love her, kill her by accident, and not be inconsolable?"

Veteran Boston area prosecutor Wendy Murphy had this to say:

"For Patsy's fibers to transfer would require flat-out magic."

Wendy Murphy said that Joni's participation in beauty pageants either could be or was connected to .


Elsewhere she wrote, "I don’t know if these cases are related to child . But I’m certain of three things. 1. Sedating victims is common. 2. The most valuable child depicts young, cute kids. 3. All three cases involve sedatives and young, cute kids."

Wendy, where does the sedation part enter the Ramsey case? Thank God you are in private practice, today. Good Golly Ms. Molly. I believe you were dangerous. Wendy, really, something not quite right about this.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Wendy Murphy said that Joni's participation in beauty pageants either could be or was connected to .


Elsewhere she wrote, "I don’t know if these cases are related to child . But I’m certain of three things. 1. Sedating victims is common. 2. The most valuable child depicts young, cute kids. 3. All three cases involve sedatives and young, cute kids."

Wendy, where does the sedation part enter the Ramsey case? Thank God you are in private practice, today. Good Golly Ms. Molly. I believe you were dangerous.

Also, Patsy has stated that her memories of that nightmarish day are unclear, at best. If someone touches the lower part of their murdered child's body upon seeing it for the first time, it doesn't necessarily prove that they had no contact with the upper portion at some point during the same encounter.

Remember the illustration of the hand viewed by two people in different locations?

 

[WHITEFANG]

Considered by millions to be the greatest escape artist of all time, performing death defying stunts for decades, Houdini died from a "trick" he'd done numerous times. A student's blow to his stomach led to his unexpected demise in this freakish episode.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Number one, the fact that you use the term "the fuzz" tells me a lot.

For example?

On to business. It wasn't a he, it was a she. And as I said, this was a DEFENSE lawyer, someone whose livelihood depends on trashing cops. Also, she wasn't involved with this case at all. So, no.

Super, cops don't need defense lawyers?


Sounds like you're describing the DA's office, not them.



From what I understand, there was a free-for-all of leaks from EVERYONE involved.

Sue em all, then. Doesn't excuse the cops.



Chicken or egg, Fang? Seems to me the adversarial relationship was the fault of the family.

Nope. She looked into JR'S eyes and found the killer.

 

[MurriFlower]

I admit I'm at a loss.

It seems to me that there are claims that PR cried not publicly, but rather before the so-called staging or privately, but I can't find anything to substantiate this. Were these claims dreamed up just now for our sake? Just pure fiction BS?

BS I expect, but they call it 'opinion'.

 

[MurriFlower]

That assumes that it was an intended murder and the sexual attack was done for gratification. Indeed, one has to assume all of that in order for the DNA to have any value. Thus the problem.

Thus the problem for RDI!

Sadly, MurriFlower, if the statements of the criminologists are anything to go by, not only are they not too imaginative, they become more likely as testing methods become more sensitive.

I don't think anyone will out 'imagine' the kind of stuff I've read on here so far. Next you'll be trying to tell me that DNA floats around in the air like clothing fibers do!!

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Disgusting!! Putting on make up and not washing - is there no end to this woman's crimes?

Perhaps she had a shower before she went out the previous evening. Does one need to have several showers per day in mid-winter where you live?

Yes, anyone as "impeccably dressed" as PR would be bathing daily if she lived in my part of the world, winter, summer, fall or spring. But that's not the point at all. The point is that she made a point of telling LE that she had not bathed that morning, as in "if I had something to do with the death of my daughter, there'd be evidence on my person as I have not bathed."

 

[BBB167893]

SD says no public tearing. DD says buckets of tears. Which is it?

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Where did I say that? I'm totally confused now.

 

[BBB167893]

Yes, the second quote, but the first was at the time when the body was placed on the floor under the Christmas tree. The point I was trying to make was that she was not 'cried out' or 'dry eyed' as you were suggesting.

Ah. Okay, I think I have it figured out now. See, I thought Fang was asking whether or not she cried as it was going down, not about her crying when the body was found. You have to TELL me these things, guys! You have to be specific. I'm not a mind-reader. Yeah, I'd say I was misinterpreted.

'without an eyelash out of place'? To quote HOTYH, where do you GET this stuff?

You've made it clear it wouldn't make a difference if I told you.

Let's suppose someone actually did say this - it would have to be LA (an unbiased account that would have been!). OK, well then, it obviously points to her guilt (Not). So, lets just say the quote was something like, "when I arrived she looked a total mess, hair uncombed, mascara running down her face, lipstick smeared all over her mouth", etc - well RDI would say in a satisfied voice, of course she was disheveled, afterall she had just head bashed and garrotted her beloved daughter and spent a frantic few hours writing a RN and covering up the murder!! Proof positive. This is a no win situation for her as far as RDI is concerned. What doesn't wash is that it was evidence of anything, even if true.

I wish you wouldn't pretend you know what the RDI thought process is, since you're obviously not interested in finding out anyway.

No it was others on the RDI bandwagon that were blowing things out of proportion.

Then take it up with them.

 

[BBB167893]

Sometimes I'm absolutely dumbfounded when I read the proofs for the claims made in this case.

Join the club!

Was the sweatshirt stapled in place? Was it subject to the laws of gravity?

The sweatshirt was over her feet, Fang.

It was impossible for the coverings to fall a couple of inches or to be moved in the process of hugging the baby's corpse?

Fang, it wouldn't make any difference. You expect me to believe that her fibers could worm their way on their own into the tied knot of a cord which was facing away from her anyway? Moreover, is there any accounts of what you're asking happening?

(BTW, you don't think Patsy's snot was all over that kid?)

If it was, I've never heard about it.

How do you guys presume to understand what happened when you don't see the dynamics of tragedy, of loss, of heartbreak in everything that went on that day.

You think I don't know about tragedy and loss?

Some keep saying how loving Patsy was, how you feel for her and how much compassion you have for her.

That's right.

Without taking a breath, you hasten to add and dwell on her deviant, disgusting and pathological behavior.

We can't IGNORE it. Like I told you before, we cannot allow emotional considerations to blind us.

Include the warmth she showed them, or some unselfish act, or the patience she showed, too.

You should see the epilogue of my book sometime.

It is funny, because I want to shake you guys and say, "Look at her, crying, convulsing, screaming at the top of her lungs. Can't you perceive her distress? Can't you imagine the inexplicable grief she felt? Even if she killed her baby accidentally, according to your theory, she would still suffer grievously over her death. How could she love her, kill her by accident, and not be inconsolable?"

I sympathize. I can't count the number of times I've wanted to shake you guys and say, "Don't let your feelings blind you to reality, no matter how awful it is."

No, I can't imagine the grief she felt. And I mean that exactly the way you mean it.

Wendy Murphy said that Joni's participation in beauty pageants either could be or was connected to .

I'm not aware she ever said that, Fang.

I believe you were dangerous. Wendy, really, something not quite right about this.

You're right: she IS dangerous. Lin Wood apparently agrees, because he wants no part of her!