IDI: Whats your problem?

[MurriFlower]

Usually. But in the case of a child murder, they'd test for anything. JB's toxicology screen was negative for drugs.

You'd hope that would be correct, but as GHB leaves the body very quickly and is also found naturally in the blood, it's possible that it was missed.

It is the ONLY explanation for the pineapple that makes sense to me, as it is used to mask the soapy/salty taste.

 

[WHITEFANG]

WF while your wishes are admirable, to me it seems like a mischaracterization: as if the perpetrator had some compassion wrapping JBR up in a blanket? Starting to sound like RDI sugarcoating as if the garrote and 2nd ligature were placed gently as a prop, and JBR's skull was fractured from an unfortunate and unintentional accident. See what I mean?

Its only when we are able to accurately characterize the crime that a true and sincere search for the perpetrator can begin. I suggest using this characterization:

"The person who did this crime is an evil person beyond imagination."

--John Ramsey, 1997

It's because I have now entered the Twilight Zone and have no idea why you say that.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You'd hope that would be correct, but as GHB leaves the body very quickly and is also found naturally in the blood, it's possible that it was missed.

It is the ONLY explanation for the pineapple that makes sense to me, as it is used to mask the soapy/salty taste.

This IS interesting, but...

It seems to me that drugging JBR would've taken away an element that sadistic child killers seem to like. It is none other than a sadist that would write such a note, and inflict such injuries upon a child whether real or staged.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It's because I have now entered the Twilight Zone and have no idea why you say that.

OK here you are in the Twilight Zone. Look around you, what do you see?

 

[cynic]

Which officer searched the basement that morning,French?Nevermind.Anyway,I guess that if you are dealing with a kidnapping and you would find an open/broken window,you would find it suspicious or at least put it in your notes right?
Do we know what the officer's recollection re that window was?
It's either the intruder left through it (I personally doubt it) or Fleet opened it (why?) or JR is lying about finding it open and closing it.
What about Arndt notes?Cause almost everywhere it says that JR didn't tell anyone about the window (weird) but there is one TV interview where he says he TOLD Arndt about it (sorry don't recall what interview now).
I mean ,in DOI he says that's the reason he went down in the first place,he remembered the broken window and wanted to check it.Now if so,why didn't he report it after finding it open?

UGHHHHH :waitasec:

It appears that both Rick French and Fleet White were in the basement prior to JR, but the timeline with regard to this and many other things in this case is a little fuzzy.
If true, however, then both did not notice that the window was open (FW says it was unlatched.)
Moreover, both did not notice the door to the train room being blocked by a chair.
If JR was downstairs prior to FW and RF, he claimed that he not only closed the window, but latched it as well. This would then contradict FW, who says the window was unlatched.
If the window was found open by JR, why would he close and latch the window?
Finally, if, as he would claim years later, it was his “first impression that the kidnapper had gone through that window,” why would he not call everyone in the house downstairs to point out this vitally important discovery?
JR’s recollection of the window and the importance ascribed to it seems to increase over time.
First it was:
LOU SMIT: Did you tell anybody about that?
JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember.
1998

Then it becomes:
The window was open. It was broken. I went back upstairs and reported that to Detective Arndt.
COURIC: You did tell her about the...
Mr. RAMSEY: Yes.
COURIC: ...open window?
Mr. RAMSEY: I did.
2000

He seems to have some problems with his memory a year later, I’m sure that the fact he was under oath in a deposition had nothing to do with it, though.
Q. …did you inform anybody of what you found in the basement?
A. I don't recall specifically if I did or not. I have a vague recollection of telling Linda Arndt that I found an open window with broken glass, but that I perhaps had broken that glass myself months earlier.
Q. Do you think you might have mentioned that to any other law enforcement officer beside Linda Arndt?
A. Not that I recall
2001

Finally, John’s memory recovers fully, 2 years later, and he confidently proclaims:
I told Linda Arndt that I found the window open and I found a suitcase under the window.
2003


Below is a series of Q and A’s on the issue, including all of the above quotes in context:

JR: I said, you know, this window’s broken, but I think I broke it last summer. It just hasn’t been fixed. And it was opened, but I closed it earlier and we got down on the floor and looked around for some glass just to be sure that it hadn’t been broken again.
ST: And Fleet had talked about earlier being down there, I think alone at one point, and discovering that window. When you say that you found it earlier that day and latched it, at what time of day was that?
JR: I don’t know. I mean it would have been probably, probably before 10 o’clock.
ST: Was that prior to Fleet’s first trip down?
JR: I didn’t know he was in the basement. I didn’t know that. I mean other than that trip with me.
ST: And on the trip that you latched the window, were you alone when you went down and latched the window?
JR: Yep.
JR 1997 Interview

LOU SMIT: I remember in your report. Did you ever go down to the basement?
JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm. I went.
LOU SMIT: Who was with you at that time?
JOHN RAMSEY: I was by myself. I was. I had gone down the basement. I went in the --
LOU SMIT: You're going to have to back up a little so that the camera (INAUDIBLE)?
JOHN RAMSEY: I came down the stairs. I went in this room here. This door was kind of blocked.
We had a bunch of junk down here and there was a chair that was in front of the door. Some old
things. I moved the chair, went into this room, went back in here. This window was open, maybe
that far.
LOU SMIT: Okay. You said -- or how far were you? An inch?
JOHN RAMSEY: An inch, maybe, or less. It was cracked open.
LOU SMIT: Which window?
JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was the little one.
There's three windows across here, as I recall. I think it was the middle one. It was that was broken. There was pane class broken out of it, which I attributed to breaking myself.
LOU SMIT: People go into that basement?
JOHN RAMSEY: But it was open and there was a suitcase under it. This hard Samsonite suitcase.
LOU SMIT: Describe how the suitcase was positioned?
JOHN RAMSEY: It was against the wall. I think the handle was on top. It was directly under the window, as I recall. And I closed the window, I don't know why, but I closed it. And then --
LOU SMIT: When you closed it, did you lock it or close it?
JOHN RAMSEY: I latched it. There's a little latch on it.
LOU SMIT: And you're sure of that?
JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty sure, yeah. Yeah, I am sure. I don't think I looked anywhere else. I think at that point I still was trying to figure out how they'd get in the house.
LOU SMIT: Well wouldn't that trigger your (INAUDIBLE).
JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.
LOU SMIT: Did you tell anybody about that?
JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember. I mean, part of what is going on you're in such a state of
disbelief this can even happen. And the, you know, the window had been broken out. And you say hah, that's it. But it was a window that I had used to get into the house before. It was cracked and open
a little bit. It wasn't terribly unusual for me.
Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in because that basement could get real hot in winter. So it was like, you know, after I thought about it, I thought it was more of an alarming situation how it struck me at the time. It was still sort of explainable to me that it could have been left open.
And the suitcase was unusual. That shouldn't have been there. I took that suitcase downstairs, I
remember. But I sure wouldn't have taken it all the way back there and put it against the window.
…
LOU SMIT: When you noticed it, about what time was that? That's kind of important. In terms of time now.
JOHN RAMSEY: Well it would have been probably before nine o'clock, I would say. It would have
been that time period: seven to nine. Cause I was still, you know amidst all this other stuff, trying to figure out what's going on here? How did they get in the house? I know this is before Linda
told us to go through the house. It was well before.
JR 1998 Interview

Fleet White went downstairs to basement to look for JBR (Schiller 1999a: 44). This time is supported by Carnes (2003:14): "The Whites arrived at defendant's home at approximately 6:00 a.m., and Mr. White, alone, searched the basement within fifteen minutes of arrival. (SMF P 23; PSMF P 23.)
Mr. White testified that when he began his search, the lights were already on in the basement and the door in the hallway leading to the basement "wine cellar" room was opened. (SMF P 25; PSMF P 25; White Dep. at 147, 151-52.)" (Carnes 2003:14).

Q. Do you remember what you saw in the basement when you went down there?
A. I saw a partially opened window with broken glass and a suitcase beneath the window.
Q. When you would - did you see anything else there?
A. Not that looked out of the ordinary.
Q. May I ask why you went to the basement at that time?
A. I was trying to determine how someone could have gotten into our house.
Q. Did anyone ask you to go to the basement at that time?
A. No.
Q. Do you know if anybody saw you go to the basement at that time?
A. I have no idea.
Q. When you saw that the basement was in the condition that it was in, as you have just described it, and you came back upstairs, did you inform anybody of what you found in the basement?
A. I don't recall specifically if I did or not. I have a vague recollection of telling Linda Arndt that I found an open window with broken glass, but that I perhaps had broken that glass myself months earlier.
Q. Do you think you might have mentioned that to any other law enforcement officer beside Linda Arndt?
A. Not that I recall
Q. When Linda Arndt asked you to go down to the basement, I think that was sometime in the early afternoon -
A. I don't remember the time. I really don't.
Q. When she asked you to go down to the basement, could you explain why you chose going to the basement since you had already been there earlier?
A. She told me to go through the house and look for anything - go through the house thoroughly, as I recall, and look for anything that seems out of place. And so my intent was to do it thoroughly.
Q. Did you ask Fleet White to join you?
A. I think I did, as I recall.
Q. Do you remember exactly the sequence of events when you went down to the basement the second time?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. Can you tell me where you looked?
A. I went back into the train room, showed Fleet the broken window, explained to him that I might have broken it myself months ago. I showed him the suitcase that I saw under the window, which I felt was very out of place. We looked for any large pieces of broken glass. And then I got up and went to the cellar room, opened the door, and found JonBenet.
John Ramsey Deposition, Wolf v Ramsey Lawsuit, December 12, 2001

BARBARA WALTERS: The police searched your house but they didn't find Jon Benet. But at one point you went downstairs and found an open window.
JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.
BARBARA WALTERS: A window that you had broken yourself at one point to put your hand through and find the latch.
JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
BARBARA v/o: That window was in a storage room at the rear of the house. It was on the other end of the basement from the room in which JonBenet's body would later be found.
BARBARA WALTERS: What did you think when you saw this open window?
JOHN RAMSEY: I was a bit alarmed, but I was more alarmed with the Samsonite suitcase that was standing up below the window.
BARBARA WALTERS: I have seen the actual police photograph that was taken of that window and the suitcase and, and, there it was in full sight.
JOHN RAMSEY: That looked wrong. That suitcase did not belong there.
PATSY RAMSEY: It was out of place.
JOHN RAMSEY: It was out of place.
BARBARA WALTERS: So you thought perhaps..
JOHN RAMSEY: It was...
BARBARA WALTERS: ...the kidnapper had gone through that window.
JOHN RAMSEY: I...that was my first impression, yes.
BARBARA WALTERS 20/20 MAR 15/00
http://www.webbsleuths.org/dcforum/DCForumID70/42.html

COURIC: Detective Linda Arndt was assigned to the Ramsey home during those long hours. Sometime that morning, John Ramsey headed for the basement. Why did you go there?
Mr. RAMSEY: We had a basement window that was under a--a grate, a removable grate that I had used the past summer to get into the house when I'd lost my keys. I--I wanted to check that window. I went down to that room. The window was open. It was broken. I went back upstairs and reported that to Detective Arndt.
COURIC: You did tell her about the...
Mr. RAMSEY: Yes.
COURIC: ...open window?
Mr. RAMSEY: I did.
COURIC: And what did she say?
Mr. RAMSEY: I don't recall that she said anything.
Today Show, March 20, 2000
http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03202000ramseytodaypt1.htm


KING: In the book, you write about the suitcase and the open basement window, but the police say you never told them about it.
J. RAMSEY: That's false.
P. RAMSEY: False.
J. RAMSEY: I told Linda Arndt that I found the window open and I found a suitcase under the window.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

"Each window had four panes, and Fleet White, having been down there earlier, pointed out the baseball-sized hole in the upper left pane of the middle window. 'Damn it, I had to break that,' John Ramsey said, adding that it happened the previous summer when he kicked in the window to get into the house after locking himself out. Should have fixed it then, he noted, taping his forehead. The window was closed but unlatched."
Page 27, ST

"Rick French....was reportedly still tortured by his failure to open the wine cellar door when he searched the house in those first few minutes"
Page 660, Schiller

Larry King: A window. Was that window open when they investigated it?
Lou Smit: Yes. When John Ramsey had first seen the window...
Larry King: There we see a window. That's the window, right?
Lou Smit: That's the window. Now, again, that picture that you see is the first photograph taken of that window after the crime scene technicians got back into the house. Now, later on, I believe that it was noted that this window may have been opened even by John Ramsey and Fleet White. But what that window did show us, when we first seen it, was that entry could have been made there.
May 28, 2001 Larry King Live Interview Lou Smit


Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"
John Ramsey: “Correct.”
Lou Smit: "In other words, let's say that the intruder goes into the train room, gets out, let's say, that window?”
John Ramsey: “Uh huh.
Lou Smit: "How in effect would he get that chair to block that door, if that is the case, is what I'm saying?"
John Ramsey: "I don't know... I go down, I say, "Ooh, that door is blocked." I move the chair and went in the room."
Lou Smit: So you couldn’t have gotten in without moving the chair?”
John Ramsey: "Correct... I had to move the chair."
Lou Smit: "The thing I'm trying to figure out in my mind then is, if an intruder went through the door, he'd almost have to pull the chair behind him... because that would have been his exit... so that's not very logical as far as......"
John Ramsey: "I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence, but left all these little funny clues around, they... are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left."
JR 1998 Interview

 

[DeeDee249]

That last statement is one of the most ridiculous made in this entire case. (about the intruder being "clever" enough to pull a chair through a closed door after himself on his way out.)

There was no need to go out a window. The alarm was not on, and if I am not mistaken, ALL doors on a house can be unlocked from the inside. Simply open a door and leave.

 

[cynic]

That last statement is one of the most ridiculous made in this entire case. (about the intruder being "clever" enough to pull a chair through a closed door after himself on his way out.)

It’s in the top 3, I agree.

There was no need to go out a window. The alarm was not on, and if I am nit mistaken, ALL doors on a house can be unlocked from the inside. Simply open a door and leave.

ITA

 

[BBB167893]

SUPERDAVE: You're right. I do have the power...I HAVE ALL THE POWER IN THE WORLD!

you do, but i didn't ask you to stop what you're doing.

At ease, Fang. I wasn't serious. If you knew what that exchange was from, you might appreciate it more.

 

[BBB167893]

It's because I have now entered the Twilight Zone and have no idea why you say that.

OK here you are in the Twilight Zone. Look around you, what do you see?

Have fun, you two!

 

[RTC]

one of the most insensitive things I read PR said is that when she was questioned about when JB had her last bath, she said she couldnt remember.she couldnt remember giving her baby her last bath? Probably went to the Whites party dirty. It also bugs me that JB had so many urinary tract infections. UTI's come from fecal matter entering the uretha, no sex needed just bad hygiene.
bad hygiene also causes itching. DNA under fingernails, got to go potty, push down long johns, struggle pair of pants on top, pee, wipe scratch, DNA under fingernails now on crotch. Im sure the R cant remember who she played with or interacted with the last two days of her life either. I dont get why IDI think DNA equals killer. unless of course it was semen, salivia.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Have fun, you two!

Look WF at who has joined us here.

 

[MurriFlower]

Look WF at who has joined us here.

Not joined, but 'watching over' I think LOL

 

[BBB167893]

Not joined, but 'watching over' I think LOL

That's right, so no one gets out of line.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That's right, so no one gets out of line.

Yeah, the RDI party line.

 

[BBB167893]

Yeah, the RDI party line.

LOL. I'll let you have that one, HOTYH. Gave me a good chuckle!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You saw it didn't you?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434[/ame]

 

[BBB167893]

You saw it didn't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434

I saw! LOL It's tough for me to stay mad at you, HOTYH.

 

[WHITEFANG]

John Ramsey: "I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence, but left all these little funny clues around, they... are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left."

Why bother when he could have walked out the front door? And who's to say when he took off?

The DNA and the lack of visible bleeding, swelling and bruising are the headlines forever exonerating the Ramseys.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Any golfers there? None here, either. But, I know The "set-up" is critical. Take the best golf swing and plop it down on my unbalanced, discombobulated, racked stance and it won't improve my accuracy or score. Do The Set-up properly with that swing and everything falls in line.

If not, at a distance of 60 yards the shot may be off by 10 yards. At 455 yards we're talking one or two fairways away, which is why the PA usually admonishes those brave hackers to take cover when it's my turn at bat, I mean to tee-off.

See, Big Ralph Kramden and Norton as the two enjoy a round of 18 at their local links. Hello ball. Pay particular attention to the threads Ralph is sporting.

 

[DeeDee249]

I saw! LOL It's tough for me to stay mad at you, HOTYH.

I saw it too. Many times.
There are a lot of priceless moments in that film.

"Someday, son, this will all be yours".
"What, the curtains?"