IDIs On This Forum?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Wiki encyclopedia isn't proof or evidence. If they squeezed out ten markers, it was degraded, as in been there too long to get a full profile.

You sound desperate.

The source was the Daily Camera, but whatever.

The fact is, the DNA in CODIS can be matched, and IDI or RDI, we won't know whether or not its related to the killing until it is matched.


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[BOESP]

The source was the Daily Camera, but whatever.

The fact is, the DNA in CODIS can be matched, and IDI or RDI, we won't know whether or not its related to the killing until it is matched.


​

I didn't mean to leave the impression it couldn't be matched. I meant that it was degraded, meaning it was not a high quality sample, which strongly suggests it was an old deposit. There are articles that describe degraded DNA. Pretty interesting stuff. I wish they would find something to exonerate the Ramseys.

 

[Ames]

I didn't mean to leave the impression it couldn't be matched. I meant that it was degraded, meaning it was not a high quality sample, which strongly suggests it was an old deposit. There are articles that describe degraded DNA. Pretty interesting stuff. I wish they would find something to exonerate the Ramseys.

So do I....I hate to think that they would have had something to do with their own daughter's murder.

 

[coloradokares]

The people who handle these things professionally claim that there is enough information within the DNA left at the crime scene to compare with and rule out suspects. Thats why it has been entered into CODIS, and why JK was tested.

There has been no match as yet to the DNA profile entered into CODIS. To rephrase my original question, what if a suspect was found who matched the CODIS DNA profile, and was a known killer. Would you still believe PR wrote the note?

As you say hypothetical, ....in otherwords give us the absolutes ....until bhen hothetical is only someones hypothesis, not fact?!?

 

[BOESP]

So do I....I hate to think that they would have had something to do with their own daughter's murder.

I don't think it was murder. I think it was an accidental death based on my reading of what's publicly available. It's a pretty long shot in my imagination to believe an Intruder did it. They arrived home at 10 PM by their own testimony. The autopsy reports suggest she died between 12 midnight and 2 AM of the 26th. It was Christmas night. Pretty brazen Intruder to wait around until they got into bed, went to sleep, then use three floors of the home to carry out the deed. I just can't buy it. Maybe some day I'll change my thinking but not by testing degraded DNA. :twocents:

 

[BOESP]

The source was the Daily Camera, but whatever.

The fact is, the DNA in CODIS can be matched, and IDI or RDI, we won't know whether or not its related to the killing until it is matched.


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Holdon,

If ten markers match, it suggests there are possibilities but not a conclusive match. There will be a lot more matches of ten markers than there would be if a set of thirteen markers existed and matched. I suspect there are a lot of matches to ten markers that aren't even in CODIS.

This is not a DNA case unless there is another sample of DNA that has been tested that the public doesn't know about.

 

[coloradokares]

Holdon,

If ten markers match, it suggests there are possibilities but not a conclusive match. There will be a lot more matches of ten markers than there would be if a set of thirteen markers existed and matched. I suspect there are a lot of matches to ten markers that aren't even in CODIS.

This is not a DNA case unless there is another sample of DNA that has been tested that the public doesn't know about.

Respectfully if in fact the DNA in question is degraded and artifact, the DNA was there and is older than when the murder took place, it is elementery it is not the killers!! It is not a case for DNA ! CODIS has not had a hit in all this time. I think the time has come to accept this was artifact DNA and move on to solve the murder

 

[Solace]

The people who handle these things professionally claim that there is enough information within the DNA left at the crime scene to compare with and rule out suspects. Thats why it has been entered into CODIS, and why JK was tested.

There has been no match as yet to the DNA profile entered into CODIS. To rephrase my original question, what if a suspect was found who matched the CODIS DNA profile, and was a known killer. Would you still believe PR wrote the note?

Holdon,

Holding off on calling Karr the killer until they tested his DNA, was a formality. They knew it was not going to match, so what is moron Lacy going to say. She already made herself look like a complete incompetent when she arrested him, so she is going to say we are testing the dna - that we have - that is probably useless, but I have to give you something. There has never been a match, has there? And there never will be. So again your question is regarding a moot point. Even Team Ramsey knows this and they know it very well. Austin and Gray know for sure that the scientist who they quoted as saying the DNA in the underwear was that of the killer, they know very well this was not true. They know they misquoted him and he came out and said it is not necessarily the DNA of a killer.

I am just saying one needs to be careful of what one accepts as fact in this case. A newscaster for msnbc SAID the same thing and quickly backed down when Cyril Wecht set her straight re the DNA. I would be more than willing to look at an intruder theory if there were any basis for it. I have yet to see any. It is eleven years.

 

[Solace]

Holdon,

If ten markers match, it suggests there are possibilities but not a conclusive match. There will be a lot more matches of ten markers than there would be if a set of thirteen markers existed and matched. I suspect there are a lot of matches to ten markers that aren't even in CODIS.

This is not a DNA case unless there is another sample of DNA that has been tested that the public doesn't know about.

Exactly BOESP. There will be a lot more matches just for the 10 markers, since humans have virtually identical DNA except for the part that sets each one of us apart. This is not a DNA case because if there were a substantial DNA, the Ramseys would have shouted it from the rooftops. As it is, we have heard about it ad nauseum and for a while it worked, until the public became educated. Most of the public has but there is that chosen few who refuse to accept it or do not understand it. But the Ramseys have always used the latest bs to do their bidding. They don't care if it is not true, such as saying on LKL that they have donated 1000 to the camp that JB went to. This was not donated until two weeks after the show. They were called on it by Trish from FFJ and had to comply.

 

[BOESP]

Respectfully if in fact the DNA in question is degraded and artifact, the DNA was there and is older than when the murder took place, it is elementery it is not the killers!! It is not a case for DNA ! CODIS has not had a hit in all this time. I think the time has come to accept this was artifact DNA and move on to solve the murder

I agree. Not sure if you think I was agreeing with Holdon, but I basically told him the same thing you said.

 

[BOESP]

...
I am just saying one needs to be careful of what one accepts as fact in this case. A newscaster for msnbc SAID the same thing and quickly backed down when Cyril Wecht set her straight re the DNA. I would be more than willing to look at an intruder theory if there were any basis for it. I have yet to see any. It is eleven years.

I've asked on another board for evidence that shows an Intruder did it. I've gotten replies such as the broken window/Smit's demonstration someone could have entered a basement window, and the like. There would be fiber evidence or other trace evidence if someone squeezed through a window. It would be dumb to go to all that trouble to leave when you could walk through a doorway on the ground floor.

I don't want a Ramsey(s) to be guilty either. Unfortunately, the depositions, warrants, autopsy, crime scene as the public knows it, and my study of the videos/newscasts with the Ramseys leaves me no choice. One or both were involved in my view.

This deal with the Grand Jury not indicting them is also misleading. We don't know if they were even asked to indict or not. My understanding was they were asked to look for additional evidence. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about what Grand Juries do, particularly when everything was sealed and, apparently, remains so.

 

[Solace]

I've asked on another board for evidence that shows an Intruder did it. I've gotten replies such as the broken window/Smith's demonstration someone could have entered a basement window, and the like. There would be fiber evidence or other trace evidence if someone squeezed through a window. It would be dumb to go to all that trouble to leave when you could walk through a doorway on the ground floor.

I don't want a Ramsey(s) to be guilty either. Unfortunately, the depositions, warrants, autopsy, crime scene as the public knows it, and my study of the videos/newscasts with the Ramseys leaves me no choice. One or both were involved in my view.

This deal with the Grand Jury not indicting them is also misleading. We don't know if they were even asked to indict or not. My understanding was they were asked to look for additional evidence. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about what Grand Juries do, particularly when everything was sealed and, apparently, remains so.

I would like for them to be innocent myself. They have done such a good job with the smokescreens that a lot of people believe 1000% that they are innocent. I just don't see it and at times I will say there is no way that this was an accidental push or accidental "rage". How do you have accidental rage anyway? Whoever did this, Patsy I believe, was reckless beyond repair and I believe she absolutely did this and yet there are times I will say, she split her 6 year old's head in half? She did whatttttttttt? Whatttttttttttt? Impossible, no one is going to do that to their kid especially the Ramseys who have so much invested in how they appear? But there are some horrible things going on out there and it is possible that she could have gotten this angry. It just is. Look at how they lie - those that we know are lying - Scott Peterson, Jeff MacDonald (some may disagree with that one, but I am sure he is lying) and look how easily they lie.

What about the man who was just arrested about two months ago. He said his wife had come home from a business trip and told him she had to go out again and they had an argument and she left. I am telling you I had to call my son in to watch him. I said this is a really really good liar. He said I can understand that they have to look at me, yadde ya. It turns out he killed her and cut her up in the garage.

These things happen and since there is no evidence to the contrary I think we are on the right track.

 

[BOESP]

I would like for them to be innocent myself. ... Whoever did this, Patsy I believe, was reckless beyond repair and I believe she absolutely did this and yet there are times I will say, she split her 6 year old's head in half? She did whatttttttttt? Whatttttttttttt? Impossible, no one is going to do that to their kid especially the Ramseys who have so much invested in how they appear? But there are some horrible things going on out there and it is possible that she could have gotten this angry....

The following paragraph is my opinion and speculation.

I try to tell myself it was an accident but if it was an accident, why not call 911. The only explanation, Intruder notwithstanding, is violence of some type. I think rage is uncontrollable. Some people go from anger to rage and some rarely get angry but when they do, Katie bar the door! I see no evidence of an Intruder, so that leaves accidental death in my mind. I think JonBenet either appeared dead or someone believed she would soon die or be required to be on life support if treated. I also know things are not always like they seem. I think the family settled the matter themselves.

 

[Solace]

The following paragraph is my opinion and speculation.

I try to tell myself it was an accident but if it were an accident, why not call 911. The only explanation, Intruder notwithstanding, is violence of some type. I think rage is uncontrollable. Some people go from anger to rage and some rarely get angry but when they do, Katie bar the door! I see no evidence of an Intruder, so that leaves accidental death in my mind. I think JonBenet either appeared dead or someone believed she would soon die or be required to be on life support if treated. I also know things are not always like they seem. I think the family settled the matter themselves.

I am going with rage also, since there are no intruders that I have seen to date. However, the Thomas theory of slamming her into the bathtub, according to many reports, does not work for the head injury. This type of injury requires blunt force - remember we spoke of this on the inimitable crimelibrary board. And it really does look like someone hit her with something. So who hit her and why.

I recall reading that Patsy would check on JB with the flashlight because the light in her room was not reachable by the door - if I am wrong, please correct me-. If this true, this could place the flashlight in her hands at that time. I forget where I read this. AMES DO YOU KNOW?????

 

[Albert18]

Patsy is right handed.

If she got angry and pushed or threw JonBenet, JonBenet would probably fall to the rear and to Patsy's left.

If Patsy struck JonBenet with something, it would come from Patsy's right.

I don't think Patsy was a monster so it probably was a flash of anger. It was probably face to face. Don't the marks in the autopsy photo's suggest a frontal attack.

Which means if JonBenet was struck with something she should have been injured on her left side. If she was pushed the injury would be to JonBenet's right and back.

Isn't it argued that Patsy may have been grabbing JonBenet in the neck area, that would most likely be with the right hand. If that is the case, Patsy couldn't have had anything in her right hand.

That tile tub edge is a 90 degree edge with zero give. The knocked out piece of JonBenet's skull is long and narrow. That edge is probably 18" or so off the floor which means JonBenet's head could have taken the brunt of the fall. Her hand or shoulder would not have broken her fall. Maybe if she was standing just 6" closer to the door when this happened, she would still be alive today.

 

[coloradokares]

I agree. Not sure if you think I was agreeing with Holdon, but I basically told him the same thing you said.

Oh I understood that. Sometimes the way the responses post can lend a bit of confusion, I knew right away we agree on that.:dance:

 

[Solace]

Patsy is right handed.

If she got angry and pushed or threw JonBenet, JonBenet would probably fall to the rear and to Patsy's left.

If Patsy struck JonBenet with something, it would come from Patsy's right.

I don't think Patsy was a monster so it probably was a flash of anger. It was probably face to face. Don't the marks in the autopsy photo's suggest a frontal attack.

Which means if JonBenet was struck with something she should have been injured on her left side. If she was pushed the injury would be to JonBenet's right and back.

Isn't it argued that Patsy may have been grabbing JonBenet in the neck area, that would most likely be with the right hand. If that is the case, Patsy couldn't have had anything in her right hand. Exactly what I thought. She grabbed her from the bed and twisted her shirt and left the knuckleside print of her thumb. It looks like an upside down triangle and a thumbprint really looks like that - my son had the exact image when coming back from sparring. Exactly. So we know that someone was twisting her neck and strangling her.

That tile tub edge is a 90 degree edge with zero give. The knocked out piece of JonBenet's skull is long and narrow. That edge is probably 18" or so off the floor which means JonBenet's head could have taken the brunt of the fall. Her hand or shoulder would not have broken her fall. Maybe if she was standing just 6" closer to the door when this happened, she would still be alive today.

I agree but someone on Crimelibrary said this is a blunt force trauma wound. Do you disagree and think that this kind of damage could have been caused by throwing her against the bathtub? Because if she threw her the way we said, then she would hit her head in the back as was said.

She was hit on the right and back, correct?

 

[coloradokares]

Patsy is right handed.

If she got angry and pushed or threw JonBenet, JonBenet would probably fall to the rear and to Patsy's left.

If Patsy struck JonBenet with something, it would come from Patsy's right.

I don't think Patsy was a monster so it probably was a flash of anger. It was probably face to face. Don't the marks in the autopsy photo's suggest a frontal attack.

Which means if JonBenet was struck with something she should have been injured on her left side. If she was pushed the injury would be to JonBenet's right and back.

Isn't it argued that Patsy may have been grabbing JonBenet in the neck area, that would most likely be with the right hand. If that is the case, Patsy couldn't have had anything in her right hand.

That tile tub edge is a 90 degree edge with zero give. The knocked out piece of JonBenet's skull is long and narrow. That edge is probably 18" or so off the floor which means JonBenet's head could have taken the brunt of the fall. Her hand or shoulder would not have broken her fall. Maybe if she was standing just 6" closer to the door when this happened, she would still be alive today.

It appears we agree on what happened here. A burst of anger and confrontation with tragedy as the end result. I wonder how many times Jon Benet endured that burst of anger before tragedy struck. According to LHP it was not the first. That sickens my heart.

 

[Solace]

It appears we agree on what happened here. A burst of anger and confrontation with tragedy as the end result. I wonder how many times Jon Benet endured that burst of anger before tragedy struck. According to LHP it was not the first. That sickens my heart.

There is no way it was the first. But JB was not afraid of her. She did kick her at one of the pageants.

And anyone who DECIDES this is the way to go - pageants - is not the silent type. JonBenet, I will be taking your childhood now and I expect you to go along with it. At first you will think it fun with the colorful dresses, etc. But you will be doing what I tell you and that, as they say, is that.

 

[coloradokares]

There is no way it was the first. But JB was not afraid of her. She did kick her at one of the pageants.

And anyone who DECIDES this is the way to go - pageants - is not the silent type. JonBenet, I will be taking your childhood now and I expect you to go along with it. At first you will think it fun with the colorful dresses, etc. But you will be doing what I tell you and that, as they say, is that.

Solace I have been in the room with, and witnessed that kind if temper and I wont go into it again but is beyond comrehension and in a split second the damage could be done. Jon Benet was starting to rebel and I believe speak up and out. As you say she kicked Patsy. LHP speaks of the sceaming and I think one day justice has to be served. I have to believe that