IDIs On This Forum?

[Rino]

Yeah, it just kind of wasn't her thing, you know.

 

[Ames]

Yeah, it just kind of wasn't her thing, you know.

Yeah, funny how "she" was in charge....according to John...of getting things fixed around the house. The remodeling...getting the windows repaired...etc. But, she never used a flashlight..and replacing batteries just "wasn't her thing." PUHLEEEEEZZZ....spare me.

 

[BOESP]

Yeah, funny how "she" was in charge....according to John...of getting things fixed around the house. The remodeling...getting the windows repaired...etc. But, she never used a flashlight..and replacing batteries just "wasn't her thing." PUHLEEEEEZZZ....spare me.

I suppose it's possible an Intruder could've found that flashlight in the drawer on the first try. If they didn't they either knew exactly where to find it or, in my opinion, if they checked several drawers, Intruders don't take time to close them while trying to find a flashlight. Too much risk in making noise and in delaying the time spent on the scene.

 

[Solace]

Thanks Solace...you are so sweet. I found this portion of the interview..where Patsy says that she never used a flashlight. I have had to snipped some of it for length.


2 TOM HANEY: Okay. The next group of photos
3 and these are not numbered --
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
5 TOM HANEY: -- but they show flashlight.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
7 TOM HANEY: A black metal string light
8 type --
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
10 TOM HANEY: -- flashlight. Do you
11 recognize that?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks similar to one that
13 John Andrew gave John for Christmas, birthday or
14 something.

<SNIPPED>


18 TRIP DeMUTH: And I wanted to clarify that
19 a little bit. Do you remember where it was
20 stored?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the best I recall it
22 was in like one of those junk drawers there in
23 the bar area.
24 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. And I wanted to flip
25 back to photo 380, right there.
0515
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, yeah, one of those
2 drawers.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: One of the drawers that's
4 depicted in 380?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you remember which drawer?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I, I most recently
8 remember it being, you know, right in this
9 drawer.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: The drawer that is open?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: That's open there, yeah.


<SNIPPED>


20 PATSY RAMSEY: Where was this flashlight
21 found?
22 TRIP DeMUTH: Well, do you remember when
23 you came in on, in April, they showed you a
24 picture of the flashlight? Do you recall that?
25 You may not.
0516
1 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not exactly.
2 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. This was on the
3 kitchen counter?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.


<SNIPPED>

24 PATSY RAMSEY: It doesn't make sense to me.
25 I mean, like I said, usually it was kept in that
0517
1 drawer in there.
2 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Why would that be out?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

<SNIPPED>

17 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes). Did you guys
18 use this flashlight much?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't, no.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Who did?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: John used it.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: What did he use it for?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, looking in the
24 garage and the car or something like that.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Had you ever seen it
0518
1 on the kitchen counter before?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I recall.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Would it have struck you as
4 unusual, or would that not be outside the realm
5 of possibilities, given the habits of the
6 family?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: It seems like it would have
8 been unusual to have made it all the way into
9 the kitchen, because usually if somebody was
10 using the flashlight, they were -- John was
11 looking at something in the garage or under the
12 car or something like that.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: But he might, you know, I'm
15 sure you must have asked him if he...
16 TOM HANEY: And maybe I missed it, do you
17 know when you last saw it in the drawer?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I'm not for sure.
19 TOM HANEY: Do you remember ever putting
20 batteries in it or buying batteries for it,
21 somebody says woop, the flashlight is low, get
22 us some --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
24 TOM HANEY: -- C, D cells?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it just kind of wasn't
0519
1 my, my thing, you know.
2 TOM HANEY: Okay. How about, do you recall
3 of using that during say a power outage or to
4 check on the kids at night, anything along those
5 lines?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't remember that.


Apparently Patsy never even TOUCHED that flashlight, and she says herself that she doesn't remember ever using it to check on the kids at night...(UNLESS...she is lying, of course).

You are good AMES. Thank you. That clears that up.

 

[Ames]

You are good AMES. Thank you. That clears that up.

Thank you...I am glad that I could help!!!! :dance:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon. The pubic hair was determined to be Patsy's arm hair. I am not making it up and check this forum and check the facts. Come on.

Patsy has a pair of Beaver skin boots. That is fact. Read the NE transcripts. It comes from her own mouth.

Melinda's palm print has been identified also as the one on the basement door. This is basic.

You're telling me fantastic things.

First, a pubic hair that made it into Lou Smits intruder theory, and to a federal courtroom, when all along it simply belonged to PR? U gotta b kiddn me!

Next, please tell me how you go from beaver skin boots to brown animal hair? Was there something I missed? What makes you think the brown animal hair came from beaver skin boots? A guess?

And last, Melinda's palm print has not been identified as the one on the basement door, by any expert. Name one.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/it_5b.html

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The best evidence of an intruder is the ransom note itself. The handwriting cannot be matched to PR because there was no consensus among document experts. The RN is by far the best trail to the perp, IMO, because it contains expressions and combinations of words that are fairly unique.

There's an odd pattern in the handwriting. Shapes that are normally curved, as taught in English elementary schools, have peculiar squared off corners. Even the exemplars given to show PR wrote the note (eariler in this thread), if you check the letter 'f', the stroke on the RN 'f' is double-thickness across the horizontal section, while PR's 'f' is single stroke. Why would a professional handwriting expert show letters side by side where each writer was using different strokes to create the letter? Who did this comparison?

Different strokes for different folks, right?

 

[UKGuy]

The best evidence of an intruder is the ransom note itself. The handwriting cannot be matched to PR because there was no consensus among document experts. The RN is by far the best trail to the perp, IMO, because it contains expressions and combinations of words that are fairly unique.

There's an odd pattern in the handwriting. Shapes that are normally curved, as taught in English elementary schools, have peculiar squared off corners. Even the exemplars given to show PR wrote the note (eariler in this thread), if you check the letter 'f', the stroke on the RN 'f' is double-thickness across the horizontal section, while PR's 'f' is single stroke. Why would a professional handwriting expert show letters side by side where each writer was using different strokes to create the letter? Who did this comparison?

Different strokes for different folks, right?

Holdontoyourhat,

Just because there are different strokes posited does not mean you are at liberty to believe whatever you want.

Writing is different from dna or fingerprints etc, it cannot be matched one-to-one onto individuals, so once again lack of identification does not by default mean an intruder exists, it just means they cannot pin it on any of the residents.

In terms of probability, and comparing your alleged evidence, you have a very weak case, whereas the probability of it being a Ramsey is strong because there is forensic evidence linking them to the crime-scene, which can include some of your evidence, even if it is contentious.

Your belief that an intruder existed is an article of faith, since there is ZERO forensic evidence linking any evidence to an external individual, it can all be explained away as originating in the house itself.

Incidentally this detracts from BlueCrab's invited guest did it, since the same criteria apply.

 

[Rino]

The best evidence of an intruder is the ransom note itself. The handwriting cannot be matched to PR because there was no consensus among document experts. The RN is by far the best trail to the perp, IMO, because it contains expressions and combinations of words that are fairly unique.



Different strokes for different folks, right?

Not in this case. Patsey could not be excluded, very different than the spin of could not be matched. Patsey herself indicated it was a woman who wrote the note (weird observation on her part) as well as Nedra claiming it looked like Patseys writing, along with many analysts .

Why leave a ransom note at all when there was no kiddnapping? Since her body was in the house, a kidnapper would have had to realize that she would be found before the ransom was paid and prior to the supposed phone call they were to wait for. The note was an effort to obfuscate why she died. The sheer length of the note and the practice pad as well as being written at the scene of the crime shows the author was not in fear of being caught in the house, weather it was written either before of after the crime.

One combination of words that is unique to Patsey and John and the author of the ransom note is " and hence" and the repetition of a phrase.


From a Christmas note Patsey wrote:
"Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and, hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again."

From the ransom note:
13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

In a 2000 interview, John Ramsey states:

"The justice system is a government organization. And hence,should be looked at with some degree of skepticism."


Interesting fact that I didn't know how to do is that the second word delivery was crossed out and pickup written in its place. Why? Either to try to hide the similarity or the fact that kidnappers do not deliver their victims, a true kidnapper would not make such mistake.

Patsey often uses the word gentlemen, not men. Use that good southern charm, a very southernly way of speaking- Pasty was southern.

 

[Solace]

You're telling me fantastic things.

First, a pubic hair that made it into Lou Smits intruder theory, and to a federal courtroom, when all along it simply belonged to PR? U gotta b kiddn me!

Next, please tell me how you go from beaver skin boots to brown animal hair? Was there something I missed? What makes you think the brown animal hair came from beaver skin boots? A guess?

And last, Melinda's palm print has not been identified as the one on the basement door, by any expert. Name one.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/it_5b.html

One more time, does anyone want to join in here. Melinda's palm print was identified. The pubic hair on the blanket was identified as Patsy's arm hair. I am not saying the brown hair did. I am saying the police had reason to think of it since they identified animal hairs and Patsy owned beaver skin boots.

Look Holdon, I am not going to do the research for you. If you want the facts of the case, then read up on it.

 

[Solace]

The best evidence of an intruder is the ransom note itself. The handwriting cannot be matched to PR because there was no consensus among document experts. The RN is by far the best trail to the perp, IMO, because it contains expressions and combinations of words that are fairly unique.

There's an odd pattern in the handwriting. Shapes that are normally curved, as taught in English elementary schools, have peculiar squared off corners. Even the exemplars given to show PR wrote the note (eariler in this thread), if you check the letter 'f', the stroke on the RN 'f' is double-thickness across the horizontal section, while PR's 'f' is single stroke. Why would a professional handwriting expert show letters side by side where each writer was using different strokes to create the letter? Who did this comparison?


Different strokes for different folks, right?

Chet Ubowski of the CBI (Colorado Bureau of Investigation) says that 24 out of the 26 letters of the alphabet matched Patsy's. Probably a fluke though.

 

[Solace]

You're telling me fantastic things.

First, a pubic hair that made it into Lou Smits intruder theory, and to a federal courtroom, when all along it simply belonged to PR? U gotta b kiddn me!

Next, please tell me how you go from beaver skin boots to brown animal hair? Was there something I missed? What makes you think the brown animal hair came from beaver skin boots? A guess?

And last, Melinda's palm print has not been identified as the one on the basement door, by any expert. Name one.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/it_5b.html

Holdon,

It is either 48 Hours or Court TV. Either way you are posting links re the Ramsey case that are obviously biased and also they have misinformation. That is patently clear. I would love to hear one believer of the intruder theory give me some tangible evidence beyond 48 Hours and that idiot Erin Moriarity and M. Tracy and Court TVs crimelibrary. It is a joke. And this crimelibary link of yours, it is so unbelievably biased - are they tellilng about a crime or are they telling you how the Ramseys were treated?

 

[Ames]

Not in this case. Patsey could not be excluded, very different than the spin of could not be matched. Patsey herself indicated it was a woman who wrote the note (weird observation on her part) as well as Nedra claiming it looked like Patseys writing, along with many analysts .

Why leave a ransom note at all when there was no kiddnapping? Since her body was in the house, a kidnapper would have had to realize that she would be found before the ransom was paid and prior to the supposed phone call they were to wait for. The note was an effort to obfuscate why she died. The sheer length of the note and the practice pad as well as being written at the scene of the crime shows the author was not in fear of being caught in the house, weather it was written either before of after the crime.

One combination of words that is unique to Patsey and John and the author of the ransom note is " and hence" and the repetition of a phrase.


From a Christmas note Patsey wrote:
"Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and, hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again."

From the ransom note:
13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

In a 2000 interview, John Ramsey states:

"The justice system is a government organization. And hence,should be looked at with some degree of skepticism."


Interesting fact that I didn't know how to do is that the second word delivery was crossed out and pickup written in its place. Why? Either to try to hide the similarity or the fact that kidnappers do not deliver their victims, a true kidnapper would not make such mistake.

Patsey often uses the word gentlemen, not men. Use that good southern charm, a very southernly way of speaking- Pasty was southern.

Patsy wasn't the ONLY one that thought the author of the RN could be a woman...


From John Ramsey's 98 Interview:

16 LOU SMIT: Okay. And I know, John, that it

17 really hurts to talk about this guy, but that's

18 probably all you've thought about since day one.

19 You must have a mental picture of the type of

20 person this is. I mean, in your mind. I know I

21 have a mental picture of various people that I

22 would look at. But I'm sure you think about this

23 all the time.

24 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, absolutely, everyday. You

25 know. Of course, my first instinct is, it was a

0040

1 man. Because of some of the similarities,

2 apparently in Patsy's handwriting, I wondered if

3 it was a woman.



Just way to coincidental for me....

 

[DeeDee249]

Isn't it said "there are no coincidences"?

 

[Ames]

Isn't it said "there are no coincidences"?

True...

With THAT said...

Patsy said that she thought a woman wrote the RN + John said that he wondered if a woman wrote the RN + and Patsy's own mother....said that the RN writing looked like Patsy's + several experts say that Patsy wrote the RN = Patsy wrote the RN (IMO)

 

[DeeDee249]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[Ames]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Yep, I agree...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,

Just because there are different strokes posited does not mean you are at liberty to believe whatever you want.

Anyone who studies the small case 'f' in the RN will notice right away that the author goes back and forth on the horizontal stroke, possibly never raising the pen from the paper while forming the 'f'. PR doesn't do this in any of her exemplars for the letter 'f'. For PR, it is one line crossing another, very neat and clean. For the RN author the horizontal stroke is a big thick mess.

Different strokes means different technique, and different techniques means different writers.

 

[Ames]

Anyone who studies the small case 'f' in the RN will notice right away that the author goes back and forth on the horizontal stroke, possibly never raising the pen from the paper while forming the 'f'. PR doesn't do this in any of her exemplars for the letter 'f'. For PR, it is one line crossing another, very neat and clean. For the RN author the horizontal stroke is a big thick mess.

Different strokes means different technique, and different techniques means different writers.

Just guessing here....but, could it be because she was working on adrenaline..and was completely out of her mind? Have you ever tried to write when you were angry, upset, or nervous? I have....and I can tell you this...my handwriting is usually neat...but, if I am angry, upset, or nervous...it comes across that way....and very rushed and very sloppy.

 

[DeeDee249]

It's also been speculated that PR wrote the note with her left hand- and she was right=handed.