IDIs On This Forum?

[Ames]

True- there is no statute of limitations on murder. But he could always put the entire blame on his wife- who obviously is not here to be prosecuted or deny it. There would be some criminal culpability for being an accessory after the fact (staging the body and crime scene), but he could always get those R dream -team lawyers to take care of that.

It will be interesting to see if and when BR talks. Sometimes kids repress traumatizing details. BR is still young. One day he'll marry. He'll confide in his wife. Then they'll get divorced and she'll get $$$ for the goods on the JBR murder.

I hate to say this...but wouldn't that be great!?!?! And then we could all have closure...and all of us RDI's can say to the IDI's....:razz: Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.....we told you so.

 

[coloradokares]

I hate to say this...but wouldn't that be great!?!?! And then we could all have closure...and all of us RDI's can say to the IDI's....:razz: Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.....we told you so.

Not that I am a betting woman, but Burke will never confess ever to knowing anything ever, John will go to his grave with this code of silence. If they have not said anything in 10 years they never will.

 

[JMO8778]

True- there is no statute of limitations on murder. But he could always put the entire blame on his wife- who obviously is not here to be prosecuted or deny it. There would be some criminal culpability for being an accessory after the fact (staging the body and crime scene), but he could always get those R dream -team lawyers to take care of that.

It will be interesting to see if and when BR talks. Sometimes kids repress traumatizing details. BR is still young. One day he'll marry. He'll confide in his wife. Then they'll get divorced and she'll get $$$ for the goods on the JBR murder.

even if he doesnt divorce,having kids of his own may someday force him to rethink the situation,and JR passing on could as well.

 

[JMO8778]

True- there is no statute of limitations on murder. But he could always put the entire blame on his wife- who obviously is not here to be prosecuted or deny it. There would be some criminal culpability for being an accessory after the fact (staging the body and crime scene), but he could always get those R dream -team lawyers to take care of that.

I think that's what LA's book is all about...Patsy convinced her JR might have done it,but without her knowledge..this protects Patsy 2 ways...one is if JR tries to throw her under the bus after death (I think she was afraid he might),and two,if that happens,then it appears she had no part in the coverup.

I also think it's possible Patsy and JR had the whole Karr incident planned bf Patsy died,to throw the IDI theory out there once again for the public.
If not, then it was all JR and Tracey's doing.But I think her death precipitated some fear that the majority of the public would bring the RDI theory to light again.So once again,overcompensating JR comes up with something else ridiculous..and ML went along with it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

And I agree with YOUR statement. I have said all along, that if John or Patsy had of confessed, that there are people out there...that are so convinced of their innocence...that would say that the only reason that they were confessing, is because they were still so distraught, and didn't know what they were doing...or because they were pressured into doing it, or that the real "intruder" had threatened Burke, etc.

I'm one of those. IMO if any R confessed, I would'nt believe their confession because:

• no history of even minor domestic violence or abuse.
• no motive for killing JBR.
• no evidence of any accident/coverup scenario.
• they called police at the appropriate time, without a confession.
• RN stands as best intruder evidence, until proven otherwise. There is no consensus on its author.

 

[JMO8778]

I'm one of those. IMO if any R confessed, I would'nt believe their confession because:

• no history of even minor domestic violence or abuse.
• no motive for killing JBR.
• no evidence of any accident/coverup scenario.
• they called police at the appropriate time, without a confession.
• RN stands as best intruder evidence, until proven otherwise. There is no consensus on its author.

surely you jest...they had motive,alright.and Patsy wrote that ridiculous rambling so-called 'ransom note',and with JR's help,I might add.And there's plenty of evidence of a cover-up,even staging -within -staging,as the FBI called it.
In the end,they had no choice but to call LE...it was just too risky,esp. given the trip they were supposed to make that day.(But I believe,as do others,that JR made a phone call or two, b/f the 911 call..thus the 'treat them as victims,not as suspects' line,and the actions taken that day).
And JB did suffer some form of abuse,as the housekeeper can attest to w. the screaming going on in her bathroom.As well as sexual abuse appears to have been going on.Just how would you explain the state of her vag. upon autopsy?It was chronic abuse,not something that just happened that night.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

surely you jest...they had motive,alright.and Patsy wrote that ridiculous rambling so-called 'ransom note',and with JR's help,I might add.And there's plenty of evidence of a cover-up,even staging -within -staging,as the FBI called it.
In the end,they had no choice but to call LE...it was just too risky,esp. given the trip they were supposed to make that day.(But I believe,as do others,that JR made a phone call or two, b/f the 911 call..thus the 'treat them as victims,not as suspects' line,and the actions taken that day).
And JB did suffer some form of abuse,as the housekeeper can attest to w. the screaming going on in her bathroom.As well as sexual abuse appears to have been going on.Just how would you explain the state of her vag. upon autopsy?It was chronic abuse,not something that just happened that night.

"In the end, they had no choice but to call LE..." makes sense if they called later in the afternoon. 6 o'clock in the morning isn't 'in the end'. Its more like "in the beginning they had no choice but to call LE," consistent with what distraught parents would do.

The statement "PR wrote the note" isn't based on a consensus of expert opinion. Its opinion stated as if it were an established fact. Likewise stated as if it were fact: chronic abuse, screaming='some form of abuse', staging within staging, etc. etc.

 

[lilywhite]

UKGuy, the handwriting doesn't belong to the house. Neither the tape or cord belong to the house. The DNA doesn't belong to the house. The unidentified dark fibers don't belong to the house. Wasn't there a stuffed Santa bear that didn't belong to the house?

Well, my God, if you listen to Patsy, nothing belonged to the house.

"How did that bear get there? That bear doesn't belong there! How did that pineapple get there? That pineapple doesn't belong there! How did that flashlight get there?" And on and on, ad nauseum.

In all my born days, I never saw such a non-pineapple-eating, non-tea-drinking, non-flashlight-having, non-child-murdering pair as John and Patsy Ramsey. I do declare! Fetch me my fainting couch.

 

[lilywhite]

I hate to say this Ames but I make my a's just as those shown in the ransom note. :blushing: I didn't attend school in West Virginia though.

Do you write them BOTH ways? In one document?

That for me was the clincher -- you don't have to be a handwriting analyst to know that's an unusual handwriting tic.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, my God, if you listen to Patsy, nothing belonged to the house.

"How did that bear get there? That bear doesn't belong there! How did that pineapple get there? That pineapple doesn't belong there! How did that flashlight get there?" And on and on, ad nauseum.

In all my born days, I never saw such a non-pineapple-eating, non-tea-drinking, non-flashlight-having, non-child-murdering pair as John and Patsy Ramsey. I do declare! Fetch me my fainting couch.

Really? Do you mean the intruder brought the flashlight, pineapple, and bear with him, according to PR?

 

[DeeDee249]

There doesn't really HAVE to be a motive for murder. Most times there is. But Sometimes people just snap. You have to remember that even many RDI's don't think this was a premeditated murder. This was a rage attach/abuse/both gone wrong and a cover-up.
There COULD have been motive here, if JBR was going to tell someone about being abused. But while the acute vaginal injury was meant to cover up chronic abuse, IMO, there is no indication that JBR was going to tell about being abused and therefore she was killed to silence her. It's possible, of course, but it isn't the only possible reason she is dead.

 

[DeeDee249]

As far as motive again, look at random murders where someone is killed because they are THERE in the path of the killer, like a gang initiation where someone is selected at random.

 

[lilywhite]

I suppose it's possible an Intruder could've found that flashlight in the drawer on the first try. If they didn't they either knew exactly where to find it or, in my opinion, if they checked several drawers, Intruders don't take time to close them while trying to find a flashlight. Too much risk in making noise and in delaying the time spent on the scene.

If there was an intruder (which I am not saying there was), he/she/they were clearly not concerned about the amount of time spent at the scene. What with all the tea-drinking and pineapple-eating and carrying LB to and fro and all.

 

[BOESP]

Do you write them BOTH ways? In one document?

That for me was the clincher -- you don't have to be a handwriting analyst to know that's an unusual handwriting tic.

Yes, actually, I do make my a's more than one way in the same document. My style is combination of cursive and printing. I don't consider it a tic. I'm also ambidextrous and think one or both Ramseys were involved in some way.

 

[lilywhite]

Really? Do you mean the intruder brought the flashlight, pineapple, and bear with him, according to PR?

As far as I recall, and this is all from memory rather than going and fetching the books, the bear is a complete unknown to Patsy (except that it later turned out it was from a pageant? or was that another bear?), the flashlight looks just like one of theirs but isn't theirs even though the one that is theirs has never been seen since, and the pineapple was local to the house but an intruder must have served it to JB because she (Patsy) sure didn't. There was also some statement about the bowl and/or spoon not being theirs, or not being "how [Patsy] would have done it," i.e., wrong spoon for the bowl or they didn't use a spoon for that or some such.

There's also some kind of bull about the tea bag too. I'm telling you, read the transcripts -- there's less in that house that Patsy didn't feel was out of place than there is stuff that she did feel was out of place. Every other sentence is "Why is that there? I would never put that there. That's not ours. I've never seen that. What is that? I didn't put that there. That's not how we do it."

It's completely bizarre.

 

[lilywhite]

Anyone who studies the small case 'f' in the RN will notice right away that the author goes back and forth on the horizontal stroke, possibly never raising the pen from the paper while forming the 'f'. PR doesn't do this in any of her exemplars for the letter 'f'. For PR, it is one line crossing another, very neat and clean. For the RN author the horizontal stroke is a big thick mess.

Different strokes means different technique, and different techniques means different writers.

When one is doing handwriting analysis, differences, actually, matter very little, because they can always be intentionally introduced by someone trying to disguise their handwriting. It's the similarities that you base your judgment on -- once the writing gets into full swing and you see Patsy's writing tics seep in that you have to be blind or intentionally obtuse to refuse to see how virtually impossible it is that anyone else could display so many of Patsy's writing characteristics.

The fact of the practice note is pretty damning as well, Patsy admitted she wrote that.

 

[lilywhite]

Lets just say writing the longest RN in history, when you live in the same house as the victim, doesn't seem very self-preserving.

Writing the longest RN in history when you don't live in the house is a piss-poor idea, when you think about it. Writing the note when you do is perfectly reasonable, since you can take all the time you want -- since it is you who will call the police, and you won't be doing that till this note is done to your satisfaction.

Identification of the crime as a kidnapping is an automatic invite to the FBI. Thats not self preserving.

I would say it certainly was, since it obfuscated matters long enough to make this case unprosecutable. Patsy went to her grave not convicted of this crime -- if she was guilty and wrote that note, that's some of the best self-preservation I've heard of.

 

[lilywhite]

Yes, actually, I do make my a's more than one way in the same document. My style is combination of cursive and printing. I don't consider it a tic. I'm also ambidextrous and think one or both Ramseys were involved in some way.

You do that "circle-plus-line" kind of A and that typeset kind of A both? I've never seen that before this.

I combine cursive and printing too but -- I guess both my cursive and my printed a are the same so it doesn't matter in that context.

So the more standard A is your cursive one and the typeset A is your printing, is that how it goes?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

When one is doing handwriting analysis, differences, actually, matter very little, because they can always be intentionally introduced by someone trying to disguise their handwriting. It's the similarities that you base your judgment on -- once the writing gets into full swing and you see Patsy's writing tics seep in that you have to be blind or intentionally obtuse to refuse to see how virtually impossible it is that anyone else could display so many of Patsy's writing characteristics.

The fact of the practice note is pretty damning as well, Patsy admitted she wrote that.

PR admitted she wrote a note that was a practice note to the RN? I don't believe that. Do you have a source?

Well, your ideas are over-the-edge RDI, no doubt about that. But isn't 'someone trying to disguise their handwriting' sortof a catchall phrase? IOW something that could be applied to any suspect whose handwriting didnt exactly match?

Let me get this straight: Dissimilarities are given a pass, in handwriting analysis. Really?

The funny part of the handwriting analysis was where the analyst notes the rise in the pen stroke to the top of the letter ''t' from the previous letter, is the same on both PR and the RN author, as if its significant.

Everybody does that.

IMO the actual perps handwriting is going to be a dead ringer, because in the last section of the RN, the handwriting is smooth and more relaxed. It isn't disguised at all.

 

[Ames]

I'm one of those. IMO if any R confessed, I would'nt believe their confession because:

• no history of even minor domestic violence or abuse.
• no motive for killing JBR.
• no evidence of any accident/coverup scenario.
• they called police at the appropriate time, without a confession.
• RN stands as best intruder evidence, until proven otherwise. There is no consensus on its author.

SOOOOO....if the Ramsey's had of confessed....giving a motive for killing JB, and a cover-up....you STILL wouldn't believe that they did it.