IDIs On This Forum?

[Ames]

A diaper? Oh, great. Now we have Lisa Nowels as a suspect.

-Tea

LOL....:laugh:

Yeah, I could see it...she is....:crazy: CRAZY!!

 

[BOESP]

That was my question too.

I do hope some of the Intruder theorists will address that question. It is important, just like why leave the baseball bat outside in the Ramsey yard if it was a weapon and didn't belong at the Ramseys? If someone believes the Intruder took the tape and remaining cord (if there was remaining tape and cord), then why leave the bat? No one would leave the weapon lying around.

When I see a well presented Intruder theory, I try to study it and see what it is I am missing in my thought process that doesn't lead me to see it as they do. I do the same thing RDI theories.

 

[IrishMist]

So why would an Intruder who's smart enough to wear gloves leave a three-page ransom note, which is a very incriminating piece of evidence? Why would an Intruder remove gloves and risk leaving DNA on rope used in ligature strangulation?

That was my question too.

I do hope some of the Intruder theorists will address that question. It is important, just like why leave the baseball bat outside in the Ramsey yard if it was a weapon and didn't belong at the Ramseys? If someone believes the Intruder took the tape and remaining cord (if there was remaining tape and cord), then why leave the bat? No one would leave the weapon lying around.

When I see a well presented Intruder theory, I try to study it and see what it is I am missing in my thought process that doesn't lead me to see it as they do. I do the same thing RDI theories.

Ok, I'll take a shot at it. The problem is, as usual, I can envision one for IDI and one for Ramsey.

IDI: He/she/they had it in their hand when they exited through the butler door, and dropped it as they were leaving. Remember, in my IDI mode, I think the intruder only used items found at the house; they didn't want to be seen carrying a baseball bat.

RDI: The bat was placed outside as part of the staging. I think John and his hokey window story was last-minute panic, and not at all thought through.

There. How's that?

 

[BOESP]

Ok, I'll take a shot at it. The problem is, as usual, I can envision one for IDI and one for Ramsey.

IDI: He/she/they had it in their hand when they exited through the butler door, and dropped it as they were leaving. Remember, in my IDI mode, I think the intruder only used items found at the house; they didn't want to be seen carrying a baseball bat.

RDI: The bat was placed outside as part of the staging. I think John and his hokey window story was last-minute panic, and not at all thought through.

There. How's that?

Thank you, IrishMist. I appreciate that. So, if the Intruder didn't want to be seen carrying a baseball bat, why worry about the tape and cord. That would be far less incriminating than the baseball bat, which could be traced just as the tape and cord were traced by Thomas. (Of course what I really wanted to say was your RDI theory made the most sense. )

 

[IrishMist]

Thank you, IrishMist. I appreciate that. So, if the Intruder didn't want to be seen carrying a baseball bat, why worry about the tape and cord. That would be far less incriminating than the baseball bat, which could be traced just as the tape and cord were traced by Thomas. (Of course what I really wanted to say was your RDI theory made the most sense. )

Sorry, can't help ya. IF there was an intruder, I think they used items from the house, and didn't take anything away. Maybe Holdon will be able to answer.

The RDI theories always seem more likely to me.

 

[BOESP]

Sorry, can't help ya. IF there was an intruder, I think they used items from the house, and didn't take anything away. Maybe Holdon will be able to answer.

The RDI theories always seem more likely to me.

So, if the Intruder didn't want to be seen carrying the bat, that would mean they could come up with a plausible story if seen coming out of the house or yard not carrying a bat. Am I following you on this? If so, that would suggest to me someone who would not arouse suspicion on being seen at all, with or without a bat. That would suggest someone from the neighborhood, I would think. Except, once it is found out that JonBenet is dead, that person (any person, even a non-neighbor) would look suspicious even without a bat.

So, in my mind, that means being caught with a bat would have been a non-issue. Getting caught at all would be the big worry.

It just doesn't fit. It was someone in the house who lived there or was invited there, in my opinion.

Thanks for listening.

 

[IrishMist]

So, if the Intruder didn't want to be seen carrying the bat, that would mean they could come up with a plausible story if seen coming out of the house or yard not carrying a bat. Am I following you on this? If so, that would suggest to me someone who would not arouse suspicion on being seen at all, with or without a bat. That would suggest someone from the neighborhood, I would think. Except, once it is found out that JonBenet is dead, that person (any person, even a non-neighbor) would look suspicious even without a bat.

So, in my mind, that means being caught with a bat would have been a non-issue. Getting caught at all would be the big worry.

It just doesn't fit. It was someone in the house who lived there or was invited there, in my opinion.

Thanks for listening.

I would think the biggest concern would be not having any solid evidence tying them to the crime in their possession. I think it fits.

What doesn't fit, IMO, is the pineapple, and the time spent in the house. (And, personally, I have a hard time understanding the Ramsey's post-crime behavior.)

 

[BOESP]

I would think the biggest concern would be not having any solid evidence tying them to the crime in their possession. I think it fits.

What doesn't fit, IMO, is the pineapple, and the time spent in the house. (And, personally, I have a hard time understanding the Ramsey's post-crime behavior.)

I agree about the pineapple and Ramsey post-crime behavior. I also think someone seen walking around outside or away from the Ramsey house on that night (particularly after 10 PM or later) would arouse a LOT of suspicion. Don't forget, many IDI theorists believe the Intruder carried the remaining tape and rope away as they left, and perhaps carried the rest of the paintbrush too.

Again, thanks for the input on an Intruder theory.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I would think the biggest concern would be not having any solid evidence tying them to the crime in their possession. I think it fits.

What doesn't fit, IMO, is the pineapple, and the time spent in the house. (And, personally, I have a hard time understanding the Ramsey's post-crime behavior.)

The only thing the perp needed to get rid of is the tape and cord. Either item isn't very conspicuous if JBR hasn't been found yet.

A baseball bat is way more conspicuous. So the baseball bat left outside the house, with fibers common to a basement item, is consistent with an intruders exit. The R's didn't have to leave, but an intruder did.

An intruder would also need a baseball bat or something like that in case of an interruption. To defend himself or themselves. The R's wouldn't have had to defend themselves against anybody.

 

[Ames]

I agree about the pineapple and Ramsey post-crime behavior. I also think someone seen walking around outside or away from the Ramsey house on that night (particularly after 10 PM or later) would arouse a LOT of suspicion. Don't forget, many IDI theorists believe the Intruder carried the remaining tape and rope away as they left, and perhaps carried the rest of the paintbrush too.

Again, thanks for the input on an Intruder theory.

I wonder if that bat was ever tested for marks, dents or something consistant with it being used to hit JB over the head with.

IMO..if it was ever tested, it would come up negative. For all we know, John could have taken the bat into the basement, rolled it around on the floor...and then placed it outside to make it look as if an intruder did it. And if the bat did not belong to the Ramseys...as they say... , and said that they had never seen it before... , then that means that the intruder brought it in with him. So, he climbs through a small window, carrying duct tape, cord...and now a baseball bat...and drops to the floor, and let me add...that he did all of this IN THE DARK. He had no flashlight...or else he would not have used the Ramsey's. WHAT sort of an intruder brings his own bat, but leaves his flashlight, that he will NEED TO SEE WITH, at home???? Intruder to himself: (before leaving his home, to commit the murder)...."Hmmmmmm....lets see. Now WHAT should I take, I have the tape and the cord, what else will I need? A baseball bat? A flashlight? Its going to be really dark in that house, and I will need to see. But I might need this baseball bat as a weapon, just in case John stumbles across me murdering his daughter. Ennie, Minnie, Mini, Mo....catch a tiger by his toe.....okay, I choose the bat. How will I see though? I guess that I will rummage through the Ramsey's drawers and see if they have one, and if the batteries don't work, I will find some of those too...and replace them. And if anyone hears me rummaging through the drawers, and confronts me...I will just use this baseball bat on them. I have NO idea how I am going to see when I crawl through that basement window, though....but, I will worry about that when I get there." .............And again...I say...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I wonder if that bat was ever tested for marks, dents or something consistant with it being used to hit JB over the head with.

IMO..if it was ever tested, it would come up negative. For all we know, John could have taken the bat into the basement, rolled it around on the floor...and then placed it outside to make it look as if an intruder did it. And if the bat did not belong to the Ramseys...as they say... , and said that they had never seen it before... , then that means that the intruder brought it in with him. So, he climbs through a small window, carrying duct tape, cord...and now a baseball bat...and drops to the floor, and let me add...that he did all of this IN THE DARK. He had no flashlight...or else he would not have used the Ramsey's. WHAT sort of an intruder brings his own bat, but leaves his flashlight, that he will NEED TO SEE WITH, at home???? Intruder to himself: (before leaving his home, to commit the murder)...."Hmmmmmm....lets see. Now WHAT should I take, I have the tape and the cord, what else will I need? A baseball bat? A flashlight? Its going to be really dark in that house, and I will need to see. But I might need this baseball bat as a weapon, just in case John stumbles across me murdering his daughter. Ennie, Minnie, Mini, Mo....catch a tiger by his toe.....okay, I choose the bat. How will I see though? I guess that I will rummage through the Ramsey's drawers and see if they have one, and if the batteries don't work, I will find some of those too...and replace them. And if anyone hears me rummaging through the drawers, and confronts me...I will just use this baseball bat on them. I have NO idea how I am going to see when I crawl through that basement window, though....but, I will worry about that when I get there." .............And again...I say...

Amusing, but according to the standard IDI, intruder arrived in daylight.

BTW do you really think JR's going to roll a bat around in fibers while PR leaves pineapple fed to JBR on the kitchen sink?

 

[IrishMist]

Amusing, but according to the standard IDI, intruder arrived in daylight.

BTW do you really think JR's going to roll a bat around in fibers while PR leaves pineapple fed to JBR on the kitchen sink?

IF the Ramsey's put the bat outside, I think they probably just grabbed it out of the basement and set it outside the door to make it look like an intruder dropped it there.

 

[DeeDee249]

This thread is like trying to put salt back in the shaker one grain at a time. We'll never agree on this. Let's let it die. IDI's will never accept the fact that the Rs killed their daughter, accidentally or not, and covered it up. They have no basis for this except to say that they "just couldn't have done it".

Now, I believe that PR had more than a few "issues". And I also believe that anyone who dies the hair of a 6-yr old and forces her to wear blue contact lenses (over her very pretty green eyes) to make her more "attractive" (to WHO?) is more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic, IMHO.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

IF the Ramsey's put the bat outside, I think they probably just grabbed it out of the basement and set it outside the door to make it look like an intruder dropped it there.

And left pineapple on the table to make it look like the intruder fed JBR? Or, maybe they remembered to put the baseball bat outside, but forgot the bowl of pineapple?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

This thread is like trying to put salt back in the shaker one grain at a time. We'll never agree on this. Let's let it die. IDI's will never accept the fact that the Rs killed their daughter, accidentally or not, and covered it up. They have no basis for this except to say that they "just couldn't have done it".

Now, I believe that PR had more than a few "issues". And I also believe that anyone who dies the hair of a 6-yr old and forces her to wear blue contact lenses (over her very pretty green eyes) to make her more "attractive" (to WHO?) is more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic, IMHO.

The intruder would have had a real need for baseball bat, flashlight, and garrote, to accomplish what he did. In RDI, they have no real purpose except for staging, a concept that is just imagined, or dreamed up.

 

[DeeDee249]

The intruder would have had a real need for baseball bat, flashlight, and garrote, to accomplish what he did. In RDI, they have no real purpose except for staging, a concept that is just imagined, or dreamed up.

The Rs needed all of it as much as any intruder would have. At least some of it was the cause of death. It wasn't all staging. Unless they simply annoyed her to death.

 

[Ames]

Amusing, but according to the standard IDI, intruder arrived in daylight.

BTW do you really think JR's going to roll a bat around in fibers while PR leaves pineapple fed to JBR on the kitchen sink?

He may have ARRIVED in the daylight, but he LEFT in the dark, without taking the Ramsey's flashlight. SOOOO...how did he see???

BTW...did you really think that I was serious about John rolling the bat around on the basement floor. Think about how ridiculous that sounds....I am sure that it was probably an old bat of Burke's, and it was stored in the basement. Its quite simple, really...if you think about it.

 

[Ames]

IF the Ramsey's put the bat outside, I think they probably just grabbed it out of the basement and set it outside the door to make it look like an intruder dropped it there.

I agree with that...I believe that it was probably an old one of Burkes, that was stored in the basement.

 

[Ames]

This thread is like trying to put salt back in the shaker one grain at a time. We'll never agree on this. Let's let it die. IDI's will never accept the fact that the Rs killed their daughter, accidentally or not, and covered it up. They have no basis for this except to say that they "just couldn't have done it".

Now, I believe that PR had more than a few "issues". And I also believe that anyone who dies the hair of a 6-yr old and forces her to wear blue contact lenses (over her very pretty green eyes) to make her more "attractive" (to WHO?) is more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic, IMHO.

Yeah, I am a little bit tired of hearing that as a reason for them not being guilty..."they just couldn't have done it"..."BUT...they were Christians"...."they were not the criminal type". If you think about it, there ALWAYS has to be a FIRST TIME. There's a first time for everything.

LOL..and I agree with you...Patsy was just a few sandwiches short of a picnic. That's funny!!!

 

[Ames]

And left pineapple on the table to make it look like the intruder fed JBR? Or, maybe they remembered to put the baseball bat outside, but forgot the bowl of pineapple?

Yes, the pineapple that was on the table, and that was IN the bowl with PATSY's fingerprints.