If an Intruder...

[Wrangler]

When you compare the different senarios involving different people, and look at all the facts and information surrounding the crime, to me the most likely choice is an intruder, who probably didn't know the Ramseys, did it. Any way you approach it, it is a very unusual crime. There's info in other posts that when weighed back and forth, point to an intruder.

Yes vicktor, but the word stranger does not indicate someone who was familiar with the house and would have known that the alarm was not set, the dog was gone, and where the "wine celler" was located, or who wasn't worried about being found during the comission of the crime, and felt completely at ease and comfortable enough to take their time with killing her and writing that 2 1/2 page ransom note and practice note. Intruder simply means someone who was not invited to be there, at that time. It doesn't mean it wasn't someone familiar to JonBenet and the house, only that it was someone univited to be there. The Ramsey's themselves, and friends and other family members, indicated that JonBenet was not shy, or non-vocal, but they did indicate she would not have gone quietly with some stranger. IMO it's someone the Ramsey's know. JR said it was an inside job. That could mean someone in the house that night that was suppose to be there, someone JonBenet was not afraid of and went willingly with, or someone she knew that wasn't suppose to be there that night, but that she wasn't afraid of.

There is something lacking in the statements that no stun gun was used. Its what could have caused the 2 sets of marks on JB's back and face? As anyone can tell by observation, anything that produces a mark on the skin has to be firmly pressed and held for a long period on the skin, or something has to gouge or strike the skin to make an abrasion. If that isn't done the skin will smooth out and return to normal color in a few minutes. So far I haven't seen any explanations that made much sense regarding what caused the set of marks on her back, and the 2 marks on her face, which would have occured between 9pm and when she died.

Anything that would have gouged the skin would not be considered an "abrasion" by the coroner. It would have been a puncture. An abrasion is a scratch, or scrape, not a puncture or tear. An air taser would have left puncture marks, not abrasions as they have darts that exit the end of the muzzle and embed into the flesh of the target.
I don't know what caused the marks exactly, but they did have a dog. I wonder if the 2 marks on her back weren't flea bites she had somehow scratched thus causing the "abrasions" there. As for the one on her face I wonder if she didn't fall into/against something that night that the BPD didn't look for. Many things could have caused those marks, but since the initial investigation was not thourough we'll never know for sure.

 

[SisterSocks]

I'm wondering why anyone would think this was an unknown intruder. Look up the word intruder, it doesn't mean a stranger.

Dr Henry Lee said this is not a DNA case, I tend to agree with him. The DNA was old not fresh. For it to have come from the murderer it would have to be fresh. No if's, and's, or butt's about it.
QUOTE]


Hi Wrangler, No DNA case Henry Lee said "No DNA Rice all cooked"

Patsy wrote the note , for years I have been in denial about about it---

Who she is covering ? John NO he is not guilty!

Burke, nah

JAR-- Maybe, maybe friends of his?

Patsy did it in a rage ? Likely but ,I just can't commit---- She love JB too much... She got over Cancer for her. Still riding that noncommittal thing fence?????

 

[BrotherMoon]

I just can't commit---- She love JB too much... She got over Cancer for her. Still riding that noncommittal thing fence?????

Commit.

Why does anyone think love precludes murder?

The record shows love leads to all kinds of strange destructive behavior.

Patsy's expressions of her "love" should be red flags pointing to use, misuse, obsession, possession, separation anxiety, worship and murder.

 

[Wrangler]

Hello Sister, I haven't made up my mind on who could have killed JonBenet. I have my reservations about it being Patsy. I haven't discounted John, Burke, or any number of their other family members or friends that had access to and knowledge of the layout of the house and Patsy's writing style.

I have always felt that the Ramsey's knew, or strongly suspected someone in particular, but couldn't directly say so due to legalities. But many things in this case don't seem to work logically, or make sense to me.

Then of course there is their sending Burke away that fateful morning. Why would any parent send their other child away when the other one has been presumed kidnapped? No parent would act that irrationally and irresponsibly after recieving any note that said there was a group of individauls that had targeted John by taking his youngest child. That has always bothered me to some degree. As a parent I would have kept my remaining child as close to me as possible and not sent him off to a friends house for any reason. The kidnappers may decide to snatch him too, en route to the other house, or from that house. That's a very big chance to take when it's your only remaining child and you proclaim you don't have any idea who took your youngest child, why would you entrust your only remaining child's safety to friends? Patsy never even spoke to Burke that morning according to their book. The only way I would send my only remaining child away and not speak to him is if I knew he had done something horrible and I couldn't look at him because of it.

Why did JR state that this was an "inside job" unless he was trying to tell the detective something and warning her at the same time not to say anything? Arndt stated the look JR gave her terrified her to the point she was counting bullets.

Then again, what if it was someone who was close to them that they really loved as much as JonBenet? Grandpa took off right away didn't he? He's never publically made a statement about this case, or his granddaughter. That bothers me too. Nedra had no problem talking about JonBenet after she was murdered. Grandparents still talk of their deceased grandchildren. Many grandparents are the main persons that cry out for justice and want the murderer caught.

JAR's statement that he could "forgive" the murderer of his little half sister also leads me to believe that the family knows who killed her.

JR's statment that they wanted to know "why this happened" as opposed to "WHO" did it always bothered me too.

Nobody worth there salt would want to know why something happened until they knew who did it. Once they knew who did it, then they would want to know why. Not the other way around.

There are just too many questions concerning the statements made by the family and the descrepancies in their own book to believe they are totally innocent of everything.

And the main thing that really bothers me is how JonBenet's doctor says he locked up her medical records in a safety deposit box and someone "stole" them out of it. It cannot be done, not even by the Feds with a warrant. I wonder if there was something that would have ended his practice and career in them that caused him to make up such an elaborate excuse. The BPD had already been shown her medical file, or at least what the good Dr wanted them to see.

Too many unanswered questions concerning this case for me to ever make any determination as to who killed JonBenet. The only thing, in my mind, is her parents know who killed her, by now they probably know why it happened as well. That's why they never followed through on S.H.O.E.S. or the JBR Foundation, it's also why JR decided to abandon his "sole mission" to find out who did this (murdered his daughter) IMO.

 

[Shylock]

An air taser would have left puncture marks, not abrasions as they have darts that exit the end of the muzzle and embed into the flesh of the target.

The basic Air Taser does not fire darts, it's just a handle with two metal electrodes that is used by pressing it against someone's skin. That is the type of Taser the RST wants people to believe was used in the crime.
You can upgrade that model by purchasing a "dart cartridge" that mounts on the front of it and then fires the darts you are talking about.

 

[Wrangler]

The basic Air Taser does not fire darts, it's just a handle with two metal electrodes that is used by pressing it against someone's skin. That is the type of Taser the RST wants people to believe was used in the crime.
You can upgrade that model by purchasing a "dart cartridge" that mounts on the front of it and then fires the darts you are talking about.

I believe the difference is that a stun gun is strictly a hand held and needs to be directly applied, the air taser was originaly designed to fire a projectile through the air, hence the name "air taser". The stun guns/tasers of today were not the stun guns of 1995/1996. In fact the ones back in 1996 and prior didn't even look like a regular weapon. Only the dart firing air taser did.
They are seperate weapons which are based on the same priciple, using an electrical charge to subdue an assailant, or perp.
Here are a couple of links so you can see what I'm talking about.
http://www.selfdefensewholesale.com/air_tasers
http://www.selfdefensewholesale.com/muscle_man_stun_guns
Note, air tasers require a firing cartriage whereas the stun gun does not.

 

[Shylock]

Note, air tasers require a firing cartriage whereas the stun gun does not.

Take a look at that first link you posted, the "Air Taser Power Handle" is what we are talking about. The next photo down from it shows how the optional dart cartridge installs on it.

"Air Taser" is nothing but a brand name of stun gun.

 

[Wrangler]

did you even read it before you made the assumption it was one and the same? It isn't. That is an incomplete weapon.
From the website:
Air Taser Power Handle

Reg. Price: $119.95
Sale Price: $112.00
Save: $7.95




MODEL #34120: STUN TASER is the power handle included in the Air Taser Kit without the accessories. You may add cartridges to make it a complete Air Taser. By itself it works the same as a regular stun gun... simply touch the assailant.

All you need to make this an AIR TASER is the 34220 AIR CARTRIDGES
Details:AIR TASER is the premier non lethal weapon in the world. Used by leading police agencies and security organizations, the AIR TASER shoots out 2 darts attached to 15 feet of wire. 50,000 volts travels along the wires offering unparalleled stopping power without causing any long term injuries.


Do you see the differnce now? The taser shoots darts, whereas the gun is direct contact. Maybe you weren't around when they first came out so you don't understand the subtle differences in my terminology.

 

[Wrangler]

This may explain it better than I am and help you understand the differneces between the 2 weapons.
Stun Gun vs Air Taser

 

[vicktor]

Wrangler,

I believe that I have got the gist of your idea on who did it. Although it has the capacity to work from a distance, I also believe that an air Taser can be pressed against the skin, applying electricity directly.

Looking up intruder in the dictionary indicates that it is a person or thing. The definition makes no stipulation about whether a person is known or unknown to the people into whose area s/he has intruded. Both the double b forum and this one seem to use the word intruder as an outsider who came in and did the crime vs. the Ramseys who lived there. ...I'm guessing here, but its assumed that everybody knows what gouge, abrasion, cut, and puncture mean.

Don't they debate semantics over at the forum @semantics.com?

 

[Wrangler]

Hi vicktor, I don't know about the other forums. I don't have a working theory of this crime, only questions and observations of inconsistancies with the parent's statements, the way this case was handled, and the leaks early on in the investigation.

I don't know why anyone would immediately assume that the word intruder means it had to be a stranger to the family, or the home. Making it generic term kind of defeats the purpose of exploring all avenues and realms of possibility IMO.

Please see the links I've provided so you too can understand how a stun gun and air taser are completely different in their opperation.

 

[Nehemiah]

Intruder doesn't mean stranger. It simply means someone who was not invited to be there.

IMO JonBenet knew her killer and was not afraid of this person. Just who was the "santa" that said she would be recieving a visit from him "after Christmas" anyway. It wasn't Bill McReynolds. Could it have been someone from the parade? Was the "santa" from the parade checked out? I doubt he was!

"Intruder" loosely means here that it was someone other than the Rs. In my original post I stated, "Do you think he knew the Rs? Do you think he had prior knowledge of the yard and house?" I simply meant that it could have been an unknown intruder, or an intruder who was known by the family. Either way, an intruder being someone other than the four people known to be in the house that night: John, Patsy, Burke, and JBR.

IMO

 

[sissi]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~56~1072413~,00.html

Article Published: Wednesday, December 25, 2002

…

Former FBI profiler Robert Ressler said he doubts the case will ever be solved unless someone comes forward with new evidence or a "deathbed confession."

"This is a situation where the police botched the initial investigation, and years later, they're still trying to sort things out," said Ressler, who helped build the psychological profile of New York's "Son of Sam" killer in the 1970s.
Ressler said he doubts that a stranger broke into the home and killed JonBenet. But he said he also doubts a family member killed her.
"There may have been other people in the house that night, and I don't mean a stranger or family," Ressler said. "I just don't know. We may never know."

Ressler said he doubts that a stranger broke into the home and killed JonBenet. But he said he also doubts a family member killed her.
"There may have been other people in the house that night, and I don't mean a stranger or family," Ressler said. "I just don't know. We may never know."

I can't say this sounds correctly intuitive, clearly because this man has the training to have more than a "gut' feeling.
Oftentimes in crimes that seem cold or are baffling ,an original suspect,not overlooked(just clever like "Hansen") come back to the forfront of a newer investigation and are "nailed". I feel certain this is the case,we "know" him, and so did the Ramseys.
IMO

 

[vicktor]

.

.

Please see the links I've provided so you too can understand how a stun gun and air taser are completely different in their opperation.

That was a subtle hint about the forum @ semantics.com. I should have added a LOL. Your point seems to refer to the differences between the two. Of course they are different. Here on the forums a stun gun is generally referred to by those who feel it was used in the crime, as a device that is held against the skin and an electrical charge applied to the victim. After noting the set of dark burn-like marks on JB's back and a possible set on her face, some people feel that they were caused by a stun gun. The distance between the marks is very close to the distance between the prongs on at least 1 brand of stun gun. No doubt there are several co.s that make stun gun products. The Taser co. is one. But I think your point was that the model known as an Air Taser is so named because its main function is to shoot darts through the air which lodge in the victim's skin and deliver the charge.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Why "him"? Him, him, him, why male? SooOOoo sexist. What evidence points to a male? Why not a female intruder? Why not a memeber of the family, no break in AND female? Why not Patsy as intruder? Patsy leaves the note on the stairs for herself after she wrote it to herself. It's all in Patsy's head.

 

[Britt]

After noting the set of dark burn-like marks on JB's back and a possible set on her face, some people feel that they were caused by a stun gun.

Those marks were abrasions. See the autopsy report. Stun guns do not cause abrasions.

But it doesn't matter because even if a stun gun were used, it doesn't identify the perp. Stun gun does not equal intruder.

Further, even if a stun gun were used, it can't be known what it was used for: as an attempt to control/disable JB or an attempt to revive an unconscious JB?

In other words, the existence of a stun gun, even if proven, sheds no light on the crime or the perp. The whole issue is a waste of time.

 

[Britt]

Either way, an intruder being someone other than the four people known to be in the house that night: John, Patsy, Burke, and JBR.

AND -- very important -- someone the Ramseys would and did cover for. Not just any old intruder.

 

[Shylock]

did you even read it before you made the assumption it was one and the same? It isn't. That is an incomplete weapon.
Do you see the differnce now? The taser shoots darts, whereas the gun is direct contact. Maybe you weren't around when they first came out so you don't understand the subtle differences in my terminology.

Yes, I read it....and I think you have it all confused. "Air Taser" is the name of the company, and the Air Taser "handle" is NOT an "incomplete weapon". It functions by itself. You add dart cartridges if you want it to have that function and stun people at a distance. If you buy the complete "Air Taser" kit, you get both, and if you buy the "Advanced Taser" you get both with a handle shaped like a handgun.

None of this chit has anything to do with the Ramsey case. It was the Air Taser "handle" which Smit thought matched the marks on JonBenet's back. It's the handle which Smit has been carying around showing people for 7-years, and the handle that Smit tried to cook a pig with.

Nobody in this case has ever claimed JonBenet was hit by Air Taser darts. In fact, the publicity hound Doberson wrongly confused the dart firing model with the basic handle when the BPD asked him his opinion about the marks on her back: http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/01/13-1.html

 

[SisterSocks]

Commit.

Why does anyone think love precludes murder?

The record shows love leads to all kinds of strange destructive behavior.

Patsy's expressions of her "love" should be red flags pointing to use, misuse, obsession, possession, separation anxiety, worship and murder.

Is there any other theory that you might have I might can at least think plausable
Moon?


My Noncommittal stays ...

Surprise me with a different thought not including worship ,murder and, Brodie.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Is there any other theory that you might have I might can at least think plausable Moon? Surprise me with a different thought not including worship ,murder and, Brodie.

I don't think the universe started from a singularity, with force spreading out in all directions after a Big Bang.

I think it came into being from the outside inwards, space, time and force being created on the outside edge of an ever expanding sphere, with the non-temporal source on the outside of the sphere, not in the inside center.

Of course this cannot be proven mathematically as working backward in time mathematically toward the unification of the four forces leads ultimately to a philosophical resolution that can satisfy both propositions, thus leading to the conclusion that the Ultimate Truth is; PARADOX.

But I'm sure you already came to this conclusion.