If It Weren't For....

[BlueCrab]

So are we now saying Burke got out of bed, put on his hi-tek boots, went to his sister's room, took her downstairs, and molested/murdered her? Why put shoes on at all? I wonder if he dressed out of his PJ's and put on clothes too? Was he wearing these same boots the morning when Fleet took him to his home to avoid the chaos at the house that day?

Twizzler,

Burke's Hi-Tec boot print next to JonBenet's body does indeed bring up some interesting questions about how many, if any, boys were in the house that night as overnight guests.

As you know, when girls have sleepovers they normally dress in pajamas and nightgowns, but when boys have sleepovers they usually stay dressed and pretend they are camping out. After all, it was 9 degrees outside that night and it would have been chilly camping on the basement floor. The boot print suggests this is what could have happened -- there were two or more boys having a sleepover and staying up late, fully dressed, pretending they were camping out. Thus the boot print.

The crime scene photo showing Burke's bed made, as if not slept in, has always intrigued me. Do we really have verification that a police officer looked into Burke's room and saw him in the bed, or do we just have the Ramseys saying that? Rumor has it that Fleet White made the bed before taking Burke to his house around 7 A.M., but that really doesn't make sense. Why would he do that?

IOW, there's a possibility some boys were staying up late, fully dressed, having a sleepover in the basement when things went terribly wrong.

JMO

 

[eliza]

Eliza,

You are on target. The pineapple in JonBenet's digestive system, eaten about 2 hours before she died, and the bowl of pineapple on the breakfast room table with Burke's fingerprints on it, and the water glass with a spent teabag in it (Burke was the resident tea drinker) also on the table, points exclusively to Burke.

The pineapple also eliminates the intruder theory. JonBenet would not have willingly come downstairs in the middle of the night to snack on pineapple at the breakfast room table with an intruder. JonBenet was obviously secretly downstairs with Burke after the parents had gone to bed.

JMO

If memory serves me right I remember a quote from whom I think was Henry Lee saying this case may come down to the pineapple, and this is what I also believe. Just about every piece of evidence in this case can have a spin put on it to swing it into one theory or another except the pineapple. To say an intruder may have let Jbr snack on pineapple before her death is just an insult to my intelligence, it just woundn't happen. The pineapple is the strongest piece of evidence that points to family members in the house that night that are not being truthful on what happened.

 

[BlueCrab]

If memory serves me right I remember a quote from whom I think was Henry Lee saying this case may come down to the pineapple, and this is what I also believe.

Eliza,

You are correct. Henry Lee attended the BPD June 1, 2 and 3, 1998 VIP presentation to the DA that was intended to show there was sufficient evidence to indict the Ramseys, especially Patsy, for the murder of JonBenet. When it was all over it was clear the BPD had no evidence against the parents and the entire presentation was based on a theory. That's when Henry Lee, after the meeting had adjourned, commented that it appears the case comes down to the pineapple (I'm paraphrasing Lee's comment because I'm too lazy to look it up in PMPT).

JMO

 

[sissi]

I know you guys think I'm on a different page, however, I have NEVER heard anyone say definitively that Burke's shoes made those prints. It was suggested that the compass shoes from his age 8 could have been hi-techs. It was a material fact in a court of law that the hi-tecs were not owned by a Ramsey. I do not understand how so many can discount this fact! IF THE SHOES were hi-techs, they were not shoes currently worn or owned by Burke. Owning these shoes, if true, would mean only that the prints were an artifact having nothing to do with the murder. IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

I know you guys think I'm on a different page, however, I have NEVER heard anyone say definitively that Burke's shoes made those prints. It was suggested that the compass shoes from his age 8 could have been hi-techs. It was a material fact in a court of law that the hi-tecs were not owned by a Ramsey. I do not understand how so many can discount this fact! IF THE SHOES were hi-techs, they were not shoes currently worn or owned by Burke. Owning these shoes, if true, would mean only that the prints were an artifact having nothing to do with the murder. IMO

Sissi,

What "court of law" are you talking about? There was no trial nor even any criminal charges brought in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case.

Hi-Tec hiking boots were apparently owned by Burke Ramsey at the time of the murder. The Ramseys were lying when they claimed no one in the family owned Hi-Tecs. But the police discovered that Burke did indeed own Hi-Tec boots. The boots are now missing, apparently disposed of by the Ramseys like so much of the other evidence.

The unforgettable boots, with a compass built into them, were bought by Patsy Ramsey while visiting Atlanta. Fleet White let it be known that Burke owned Hi-Tecs and his son, Fleet III, testified to the GJ that Burke owned Hi-Tecs, and Burke Ramsey himself testified to the GJ that he owned Hi-Tecs.

It's true the Hi-Tec boot print alongside of JonBenet's body may only be an "artifact", as you described it, and it may have been put there by Burke prior to the murder -- but it's there, and it points to Burke.

And, incidentally, why would the Ramseys not only conveniently forget that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots, but also get rid of the boots without a trace? Surely a person would remember what happened to such an unusual pair of hiking boots.

JMO

 

[twizzler333]

Maybe someone borrowed his boots. My kids are forever trading shoes and such. I think it is strange that they do, but apparently this is something kids do??????? As for the sleepover, I highly doubt anyone would have a sleepover knowing that in the morning they had to be up super early to leave for a flight. I cannot see any mother allowing that, plus they were busy the whole day prior and got home in time to get in bed.....nope, no sleepover, I feel quite sure about that.

 

[BlueCrab]

... and got home in time to get in bed.....nope, no sleepover, I feel quite sure about that.

Twizzler,

We only know that which the Ramseys tell us about when they got home and when they went to bed. How can you believe anyone who lies their heads off about what really happened?

o They got up at 5:30 A.M. even though they had a 6:30 flight to catch and the ride to the airport alone was 20 minutes. Yeah, right!

o Burke slept through the whole thing, until they woke him at 7:00. Yeah, right!

o They didn't search the basement looking for JonBenet. Yeah, right!

JMO

 

[TressaRing28]

sissi, do you think McReynolds wore his Santa suit when he broke into the house and did the dastardly deed? As hairy as he was, it sure seems he would have left some hair behind.

imo

Santa would have had glitter in his beard , no way could have not shed some glitter. That stuff gets everywhere and last forever ! They would have found that ...

Remember JonBenet gave him glitter for his beard,and its a know FACT he put it in.

 

[WasUp]

Twizzler,

We only know that which the Ramseys tell us about when they got home and when they went to bed. How can you believe anyone who lies their heads off about what really happened?

o They got up at 5:30 A.M. even though they had a 6:30 flight to catch and the ride to the airport alone was 20 minutes. Yeah, right!

o Burke slept through the whole thing, until they woke him at 7:00. Yeah, right!

o They didn't search the basement looking for JonBenet. Yeah, right!
JMO

Hi Twizzler. Wasn't this a chartered flight/John Ramseys company plane I believe? And remember, Patsy said she stayed up really late packing.

So I don't see the time as an issue unless they were over an hour late and the chartered plane had to be elsewhere for another pickup?

This is just a something I thought I remember hearing/reading about, even though it's been ages since I've read or partcipated in any discussion regarding the JBR case.

 

[BlueCrab]

Wasn't this a chartered flight/John Ramseys company plane I believe?

So I don't see the time as an issue unless they were over an hour late and the chartered plane had to be elsewhere for another pickup?

WasUp,

John Ramsey personally owned the plane and although he flew it many times himself, his pilot, Mike Archuleta, was scheduled to fly the plane to Michigan. Archuleta had filed a flight plan that required a take-off time of 7:00 A.M., with the Ramseys arriving at the airport at 6:30 A.M. to embark, get the luggage on board, etc.

The Ramseys couldn't be late for another reason -- they were rendezvousing in Minneapolis with John Andrew, Melinda, and Melinda's fiance to continue the flight to Charlevoix.

The Ramsey timeline doesn't fit -- which indicates they planned, and did, get out of bed much earlier than 5:30 A.M., probably around 4:30 A.M. They obviously used that extra time to stage the crime scene.

JMO

 

[TressaRing28]

To say an intruder may have let Jbr snack on pineapple before her death is just an insult to my intelligence, it just woundn't happen. The family members in the house that night that are not being truthful on what happened.

Eliza although, it might be an insult to your intelligence...

We can not rule out an out side source. In my opinion, Patsy did write the RN, so indeed the Ramsey's are hiding something.

 

[TressaRing28]

This is just a something I thought I remember hearing/reading about, even though it's been ages since I've read or partcipated in any discussion regarding the JBR case.

Welcome back WasUp!

 

[KATKAT19691]

Sissi,

What "court of law" are you talking about? There was no trial nor even any criminal charges brought in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case.

Hi-Tec hiking boots were apparently owned by Burke Ramsey at the time of the murder. The Ramseys were lying when they claimed no one in the family owned Hi-Tecs. But the police discovered that Burke did indeed own Hi-Tec boots. The boots are now missing, apparently disposed of by the Ramseys like so much of the other evidence.

The unforgettable boots, with a compass built into them, were bought by Patsy Ramsey while visiting Atlanta. Fleet White let it be known that Burke owned Hi-Tecs and his son, Fleet III, testified to the GJ that Burke owned Hi-Tecs, and Burke Ramsey himself testified to the GJ that he owned Hi-Tecs.

It's true the Hi-Tec boot print alongside of JonBenet's body may only be an "artifact", as you described it, and it may have been put there by Burke prior to the murder -- but it's there, and it points to Burke.

And, incidentally, why would the Ramseys not only conveniently forget that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots, but also get rid of the boots without a trace? Surely a person would remember what happened to such an unusual pair of hiking boots.

JMO

I agree, why would the boots just vanish and be forgotten if they were not an important piece of evidence that the parents were trying to get rid of. Also the pineapple is what does it for me. I believe Burke did it. I think JBR went to his room as she often did flashlight in hand, they went downstairs got the pineapple, Burke got his tea (that is why only Burke and Patsy prints on bowl, Patsy puts up dishes and Burke got it down to eat pineapple) and something went wrong from there.
I always thought he was alone, but now I am starting to believe that the stine boy was there also. I go with this for the same reason as the boots. Why would John not admit to being a close friend unless it was part of the cover up that it needed to be deleted? I mean if Patsy's was close to them and Burke was close to them why would he not say, I am not close but Burke and Patsy has close relationship with them. It does not make sense he would try to deny it all together. Could the boys have been playing in the basement and try to scare JBR and something happen from there?
Thanks for the great posts everyone!

Kat
IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

I agree, why would the boots just vanish and be forgotten if they were not an important piece of evidence that the parents were trying to get rid of. Also the pineapple is what does it for me. I believe Burke did it. I think JBR went to his room as she often did flashlight in hand, they went downstairs got the pineapple, Burke got his tea (that is why only Burke and Patsy prints on bowl, Patsy puts up dishes and Burke got it down to eat pineapple) and something went wrong from there.
I always thought he was alone, but now I am starting to believe that the stine boy was there also. I go with this for the same reason as the boots. Why would John not admit to being a close friend unless it was part of the cover up that it needed to be deleted? I mean if Patsy's was close to them and Burke was close to them why would he not say, I am not close but Burke and Patsy has close relationship with them. It does not make sense he would try to deny it all together. Could the boys have been playing in the basement and try to scare JBR and something happen from there?
Thanks for the great posts everyone!

Kat
IMO

Kat,

Good post. The "common sense" evidence points to Burke Ramsey and Doug Stine.

The pineapple (eaten by JonBenet 2 hours before her death with Burke's fingerprints on the bowl) and the Stine's highly unusual behavior (housing the Ramseys for 5 months and following them to Georgia, etc., and then John ridiculously denying under oath they are close friends) tells the story. Burke and Doug are likely involved in the killing and the parents are covering it up.

JMO

 

[BrotherMoon]

The pineapple (eaten by JonBenet 2 hours before her death

It does not take fruit two hours to get out of the stomach and into the small intestines, only 20 to 30 minutes.

Wrong again BC.

 

[KATKAT19691]

Kat,

Good post. The "common sense" evidence points to Burke Ramsey and Doug Stine.

The pineapple (eaten by JonBenet 2 hours before her death with Burke's fingerprints on the bowl) and the Stine's highly unusual behavior (housing the Ramseys for 5 months and following them to Georgia, etc., and then John ridiculously denying under oath they are close friends) tells the story. Burke and Doug are likely involved in the killing and the parents are covering it up.

JMO

Thank you. You know you can through many different things out there and there is always one thing or another that does not fit that theory. But with the Burke and Doug theory, I can not find anything that does not fit. Such as If patsy did it, why was Burke fingerprint on bowl, or if John did it why was his prints not on the bowl. I dont know, seems to me that other than people thinking that boys could not do the crime, there is no other theory that fits. As I have pointed out and you can read all over web, kids do commit crimes like this all the time.

IMO
Kat

 

[twizzler333]

It does not take fruit two hours to get out of the stomach and into the small intestines, only 20 to 30 minutes.

Wrong again BC.

no, BM, he is right. http://www.unani.com/digestion_time_of_foods.htm

 

[BlueCrab]

no, BM, he is right. http://www.unani.com/digestion_time_of_foods.htm

Twizzler,

My computer locks up when I click onto the link you provided.

Nevertheless, from "Better Health Channel" on the web:

"Fat and acid foods (like vinegar, lemon juice, acidic fruit) slow the rate at which the stomach empties."

Pineapple is an acidic fruit.

JMO

 

[twizzler333]

(Of course, BM will argue that he means something else, and perhaps the time from sitting in the stomach until it is sent to the small intestine is only 30 minutes, but I think with it being an acidic type fruit it would not break down in the stomach as quickly as other foods that may indeed remain in the stomach only 30 minutes and then proceed to finish the digestion process in about 2 hours or so). Still not sure what this proves anyway. Did they in fact determine it was pineapple? Or could it have been some other yellowish type fruit or vegetable? Just asking, have not looked into this yet.

Digestion Time Of Foods *

1 1/4 Hours
parsley

1 1/2 Hours
lemon
Irish moss

1 3/4 Hours
avocado
grapes
mango
olive, ripe
raspberry

2 Hours
blueberry
sweet cherry
grapefruit
orange
raisin
coconut milk
artichoke
beet greens
garlic
potato
tomato
brown rice

2 1/4 Hours
fig, fresh
pear, fresh
pineapple
strawberry
asparagus
carrot
cauliflower
lettuce: cos, loose leaf, iceberg

2 1/2 Hours
blackberry
date
fig, dried
gooseberry
peach, fresh
almond
dandelion
greens
leek
mushroom
okra
lima
bean
white rice
basmati rice

 

[BlueCrab]

Did they in fact determine it was pineapple?

Twizzler,

Yes, it was definitely fresh pineapple. The contents were frozen at autopsy and sent to a scientific lab, where it was positively identifed as consistent with the pineapple that was in the bowl sitting out on the table (with Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints on the bowl).

It's important to know the approximate time it took for the pineapple to digest to the point that it did after eating it for several reasons. One reason is to help estimate the time of death (if she was last seen alive at a certain time and not observed eating pineapple, then the murder had to occur at least 1 1/2 to 2 hours after that). Another reason is to help determine where JonBenet was when she ate it (for instance, at home or at the Whites). Still another reason is to help eliminate the possibility that an intruder killed JonBenet (she wouldn't have willingly came downstairs with an intruder and sit at the table with him to snack on pineapple).

JMO