If no one at school "saw" anything..why not?

[ami]

Let's go with this was a plan devised by TMH. She plans to make Kyron disappear from the school that particular day because the confusion would be a good cover. Then, I don't understand why her plan would not include solid albi and whereabouts for the whole day. If it was a plan, it wasn't that thought out, and LE can see the holes but not the whole story yet.

Frustratred, I'm sick of wondering how someone got Kyron out of that school without being seen. It is crucial to this case to determine if TMH left the school with Kyron. I suspect LE must have more than they're saying. Lying in bed trying to figure this out without all the dots is wearing on me. I know we all feel like that waiting for more info. Prayers for Kyron and those who love him.

I've kind of been going on the assumption that she had an alibi, but it was rendered useless at some point in the day when things didn't go as planned for her - maybe she ended up not following the alibi timeline she'd planned -- for instance maybe she planned for something to take 20 minutes and it took an hour, or maybe she realized too late that her cell phone would ping somewhere she wasn't supposed to be, etc., and she had to change her story on the fly.

 

[MsFacetious]

Okay... follow me here for a minute...

Kaine said that Terri took the Science project TO the school the day before... on Thursday.

That she borrowed the truck on Friday to PICK UP the Science project.

Does that mean that Terri took Kyron to school on Thursday as well??

It would certainly make sense. It would also make it MUCH easier to discredit any witnesses who saw Terri, Kyron and the truck in the morning. (How do you know it was Friday and not Thursday?)

So you wouldn't be as worried about being seen. Of course you'd prefer to get lucky and not be seen, you might send him out first to avoid being seen together, but if you were seen it's not the end of the world. Because if it is someone who could positively identify you, it's going to be someone at the school who was there both days. Not a random parent who was only there one of the days.

So you avoid talking to people you know both days or doing anything noteworthy, wear nearly identical outfits both days, bring or don't bring the baby both days, if you bring her make sure she is dressed the same and in or out of the stroller both days, put Kyron in black both days (I'd love to know what he wore on Thursday?)

You make your appearance and actions at the school as identical on Thursday and Friday as humanly possible.

That could work....


Hypothetical....

Imaginary witness - "I saw Terri and Kyron walking out to the parking lot, to the white truck."

LE - "Really, what was going on that day?"

Imaginary witness- "We had the Science projects set up. Kyron's was really good."

LE: "Which day was this?"

Imaginary witness - "Oh it was Friday. I was wearing my blue shirt not my purple one."

LE - "Why did you notice them walking out?"

Imaginary witness - "Because it wasn't time to leave and Terri didn't have her red car."

LE - "Did you see them driving away or just getting to the truck?"

Imaginary witness - "I had to get going, I just saw them open the door to the truck and then I left."


More hypothetical....

LE- "Terri, we have a witness who saw you leaving the school with Kyron."

Terri - "They are mistaken, I left by myself to run my errands."

LE - "This person says they saw you leave with him and get into the truck. That's what you drove on Friday Terri."

Terri - "It's also what I drove on Thursday. We took his project in on Thursday, so I took him to school in the truck. Once we got it inside we realized one of the frogs had fallen out. We went back out to find it in the truck. That must be what this person is talking about."

LE - "Then why did you drive the truck Friday?"

Terri - "To pick up the Science project. I planned to stay until the Science Fair was over and take it home. Then my daughter started getting cranky and I had to leave early. I decided to just pick it up on Monday."

 

[Donjeta]

So you wouldn't be as worried about being seen.[/I] Of course you'd prefer to get lucky and not be seen, you might send him out first to avoid being seen together, but if you were seen it's not the end of the world. Because if it is someone who could positively identify you, it's going to be someone at the school who was there both days. Not a random parent who was only there one of the days.

How would she know that? Why couldn't there be a random parent who wasn't there on Thursday? Maybe one of Kyron's classmates had a father come to help with the project on Thursday and a mother to visit the science fair on Friday. Or somebody who was there on both days but verifiably wouldn't have been able to see Terri on Thursday because they weren't there at the same time?

 

[Curious Me]

MsFacetious, I agree. The Thursday then Friday appearance at the school would blur witnesses' memories as to exactly which day they may have seen TMH at the school.

Ami also brought up the fact that TMH may have had a better plan with a stronger albi, but something changed and she had to improvise.

I need to run some errands, and I know I'll be running this through my brain the whole time. Just can't imagine what really happened and it's bugging me big time.

Where is Kyron?

 

[BringKyronHome]

According to an "unnamed source" - hearsay/rumor, really, the Skyline's website, prior it being updated for the summer, announced that parents could tour from 8:00 to 8:45 and that the kids were touring with their class from 9:00 to 10:00. Now why roll wasn't taken until 10:00 is just flat-out weird. I wish someone had a screenshot of it. Maybe it's out there, I'll dig for it.

I'd like to see that, because I've seen 2 things...

1) The sign that says that the fair was 8-10.
2) A PTA flyer that said that the fair was open to the PUBLIC 8-10 (and I don't recall any mention of the tours).

I think the parents went there and stayed until they wanted to leave, anytime before 10, when classes started.

I think Terri left because the tour began, why stay.

What I want to know is how the school managed the remaining adults and children while the tours took place.

Could children choose to be with their parents? If so how would faculty know who was with their parents & who was with the tours?

Were they mandatory, if so how were parents notified when the flyer and the sign clearly stated the fair went until 10, and that's when classes began.

I'd love to see that screen shot if anyone has it!

 

[BringKyronHome]

The more I think about this, even someone else getting Kyron out of the school for Terri would be a risk, unless this person was in disguise or something.

Like say it was someone like DeDe...Terri would be cooked if someoen saw her from the window too.

Thing is, somehow he came out of that school

*** I'm just going to put a place holder in here...I know they searched, but stranger things have happened****

And no one saw it. So as the original poster asked, how in the world is that possible?

Of course there is a slim chance that he could have been walked out/lured out and no one happened to notice it.

But if this was planned by Terri, this would NOT have been her method...WAY too risky. So how else could she have gotten him out without someone seeing her long red hair...actually did anyone see her leave?

So what if it was a stranger, not a Terri accomplice, how could that person have gotten him out without anyone seeing, one idea is he just walked and got lucky...or what if a stranger lured him out by asking him to carry a big box, so as they walked through the parking lot, that no one could see his face????

Or what if it was someone familiar with the school that stashed him somewhere until the fair and all the people had left, maybe waited until the talent show when everyone was in the auditorium, and then snuck him out to the trunk of the car when no one would be looking. ---This is REALLY risky too though, what if he was discovered by accident, what if someone saw something through a window...

Help me here...lets think about all the ways that a person, Terri, an accomplice, a known person to Kyron, or a stranger could have gotten him out of that school undetected.

btw - I'm assuming parents were there until 10 as the sign an the flyer suggested.

 

[liz b.]

The more I think about this, even someone else getting Kyron out of the school for Terri would be a risk, unless this person was in disguise or something.

Like say it was someone like DeDe...Terri would be cooked if someoen saw her from the window too.

Thing is, somehow he came out of that school

*** I'm just going to put a place holder in here...I know they searched, but stranger things have happened****

And no one saw it. So as the original poster asked, how in the world is that possible?

Of course there is a slim chance that he could have been walked out/lured out and no one happened to notice it.

But if this was planned by Terri, this would NOT have been her method...WAY too risky. So how else could she have gotten him out without someone seeing her long red hair...actually did anyone see her leave?

So what if it was a stranger, not a Terri accomplice, how could that person have gotten him out without anyone seeing, one idea is he just walked and got lucky...or what if a stranger lured him out by asking him to carry a big box, so as they walked through the parking lot, that no one could see his face????

Or what if it was someone familiar with the school that stashed him somewhere until the fair and all the people had left, maybe waited until the talent show when everyone was in the auditorium, and then snuck him out to the trunk of the car when no one would be looking. ---This is REALLY risky too though, what if he was discovered by accident, what if someone saw something through a window...

Help me here...lets think about all the ways that a person, Terri, an accomplice, a known person to Kyron, or a stranger could have gotten him out of that school undetected.

btw - I'm assuming parents were there until 10 as the sign an the flyer suggested.

Don't know, but I have attended and chaperoned a lot of science fairs at my children's elementary school. It is a lot like Skyline, and has a wooded area with a creek in it in back of the school.In a very affluent area. A lot of people did not put on their name tags, or sign in. It was always fairly chaotic, lots of adults and kids milling around... I'll be honest, there were sometimes people there that I did not recognize, but if they seemed to "blend " I did not approach them.... The one difference is that my kids' school had cameras ...

All JMO

 

[charminglane]

If they had to walk by the office to get to the parking lot, no one would have noticed that works in the office because the parents that only show up once a year are jamming the office asking all kinds of questions, picking up fliers, making appointments, etc.
Kyron is short. The window ledges could be above his head. Maybe TH noticed that and it was part of the plan.
Were there any pick ups or deliveries to add to the confusion that morning?
For some reason I believe it has something to do with Kyron either going straight to the truck or to the bathroom. That is when "whatever" happens.

 

[MsFacetious]

How would she know that? Why couldn't there be a random parent who wasn't there on Thursday? Maybe one of Kyron's classmates had a father come to help with the project on Thursday and a mother to visit the science fair on Friday. Or somebody who was there on both days but verifiably wouldn't have been able to see Terri on Thursday because they weren't there at the same time?

I said:

"So you wouldn't be as worried about being seen. Because if it is someone who could positively identify you, it's going to be someone at the school who was there both days. Not a random parent who was only there one of the days."

Meaning that those who KNOW Terri well enough to have talked to her on a regular basis and be credible in positively identifying her, are those who work at the school. So they would be there both days and it'd be easy to claim that whatever they saw occurred Thursday instead of Friday.

If this was really that premeditated then she would have noticed if any of Kyron's friends were not there Thursday and were there Friday. She would have been looking for anyone who may have seen her who was only there on Friday.

Parents, would not be credible unless they knew Terri well (unless she is the only red headed woman in the school, which I suppose IS possible...) and we know that Kyron's close friend's mother was not there. We have only heard about the PTA president seeing them.

No matter what there would have been a risk in it. But going both days and making everything the same...would have significantly reduced that risk. Again, assuming this was all premeditated... which I am not at all convinced of.

 

[ami]

The more I think about this, even someone else getting Kyron out of the school for Terri would be a risk, unless this person was in disguise or something.

Like say it was someone like DeDe...Terri would be cooked if someoen saw her from the window too.

Thing is, somehow he came out of that school

*** I'm just going to put a place holder in here...I know they searched, but stranger things have happened****

And no one saw it. So as the original poster asked, how in the world is that possible?

Of course there is a slim chance that he could have been walked out/lured out and no one happened to notice it.

But if this was planned by Terri, this would NOT have been her method...WAY too risky. So how else could she have gotten him out without someone seeing her long red hair...actually did anyone see her leave?

So what if it was a stranger, not a Terri accomplice, how could that person have gotten him out without anyone seeing, one idea is he just walked and got lucky...or what if a stranger lured him out by asking him to carry a big box, so as they walked through the parking lot, that no one could see his face????

Or what if it was someone familiar with the school that stashed him somewhere until the fair and all the people had left, maybe waited until the talent show when everyone was in the auditorium, and then snuck him out to the trunk of the car when no one would be looking. ---This is REALLY risky too though, what if he was discovered by accident, what if someone saw something through a window...

Help me here...lets think about all the ways that a person, Terri, an accomplice, a known person to Kyron, or a stranger could have gotten him out of that school undetected.

btw - I'm assuming parents were there until 10 as the sign an the flyer suggested.

Let's see....

1. Someone took Kyron out of school alive and walking
a. Lured him out (Terri, a teacher/other parent/school worker/stranger)
b. Simply held his hand and exited (Terri)
c. (unlikely) Brought him out unwillingly (teacher/other parent/school worker/stranger)


2. Someone hurt or drugged him and removed him from school in a non-walking manner.


I mean thinking about it, both of those main scenarios would be incredibly hard to get away with in a school. IMO the least likely to draw suspicion would be a parent walking out with their own child. Second most likely to have happened based on everything we've been told about Kyron (he was shy, wouldn't have walked away) was that someone did something to him in the school itself, then worked out a normal looking way to remove him from the school.

I know dogs have searched the school, so had something dire happened to him there my guess is that they would have discovered an area of interest inside the school. We haven't heard anything about that - I think our locals here might have heard or seen increased activity there if they had.

Another parent there for the morning saw Kyron and hatched a spur of the moment plan? Perhaps, but how did no one see THEM walking out with Kyron? A teacher? A non-teaching school worker? Again - after school let out and Kyron was discovered missing, they searched the school. So the person who did this removed him earlier in the day. Which would mean if a teacher or worker, their absence would have been noticed.

 

[human]

According to an "unnamed source" - hearsay/rumor, really, the Skyline's website, prior it being updated for the summer, announced that parents could tour from 8:00 to 8:45 and that the kids were touring with their class from 9:00 to 10:00. Now why roll wasn't taken until 10:00 is just flat-out weird. I wish someone had a screenshot of it. Maybe it's out there, I'll dig for it.

that would be great if you could find it. It would answer a lot of questions.

 

[human]

Human, do you have a link for that info. Does this mean Kyron was late for class, since Terri left him at 8:45 IN THE HALL where he was heading to class? And does this mean that EVERYONE else was already in class?

I wish I had the link. Perhaps it was on the Skyline website at one time. The hours of school.

As a teacher, I wondered about it way back when this was discussed, because Terri should know that kids need to be in the room before 8:45. A bell rings at 8:35 to warn kids and then at 8:45 as a final bell.

I know in my school district the bells ring at the same time everyday no matter what is happening.

 

[human]

there is a bell schedule on here-PPS, but I can't figure out how to access it. It is on the left hand side of the page.

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/

 

[BringKyronHome]

If they had to walk by the office to get to the parking lot, no one would have noticed that works in the office because the parents that only show up once a year are jamming the office asking all kinds of questions, picking up fliers, making appointments, etc.
Kyron is short. The window ledges could be above his head. Maybe TH noticed that and it was part of the plan.
Were there any pick ups or deliveries to add to the confusion that morning?
For some reason I believe it has something to do with Kyron either going straight to the truck or to the bathroom. That is when "whatever" happens.

But see, how could anyone be sure that even if they managed to get past the office undetected that they wouldn't have bumped into someone in the parking lot OR that someone wouldn;t have noticed from a window?

If this is a plan, which it seems it must have been someone's, how in the world could they have planned to get Kyron all the way to a vehicle and out of the parking lot without being seen?

A stranger couldn't bank on Kyron bumping into his BFF in the parkinglot. And neither could Terri. But more importantly Terri couldn't bank on his teacher spotting her getting into her truck with Kyron from the 2nd fl window.

So how in the world did he get off the school grounds undetected?

 

[Chili Fries]

But see, how could anyone be sure that even if they managed to get past the office undetected that they wouldn't have bumped into someone in the parking lot OR that someone wouldn;t have noticed from a window?

If this is a plan, which it seems it must have been someone's, how in the world could they have planned to get Kyron all the way to a vehicle and out of the parking lot without being seen?

Because there seems to be a very limited view of the parking lot from the windows on the east side of the school. Take Kyron down the short flight of steps (and the steps mean there is no line of sight from the hallway) to the parking lot, if there is nobody in the lot go right to the car and leave. If there are people in the lot, just go back into the school and wait for a better time or abort the plan altogether. The biggest risk you run if you get to the car and think you haven't been noticed is someone passing you leaving the school in the truck, which probably wouldn't matter if Kyron was in the back seat.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The best way would be to leave early, well before the end of the fair, while people were still arriving and leaving and the parking lot was busy. It is much easier to go unnoticed among others--and I still maintain that no one in any official capacity in the school would be paying attention to the parking lot. All TH would need to do is walk to the truck with Kyron, with some ready excuse (left a frog in the truck, forgot my cellphone, need some tissues, etc.) then, if all seemed to go well--just leave. The less time spent at the school, the better, as anyone seeing them at the truck might presume they were arriving and not leaving, or making a tripmto the truck for something.

Another possibility would be if she left and a third party told Kyron that TH wanted to see him in the parking lot. He goes out to the truck and she says "Get in."

I still can't imagine a scenario in which Kyron's disappearance is not premeditated.

 

[palladore]

A copy of an email that Kaine sent to Intel co-workers on June 6 at 8:39 in the morning was posted on the website blog of the Portland law firm Acker & Associates. The blog's author noted, "Having my our children ... this resonates with me."

In the email Kaine says, "He (Kyron) was dropped off at school about 8:45 and went missing sometime between then and 9:00 or 9:30." The email indicates, to me, that the confusion about who had last seen Kyron persisted for at least 48 hours.

[There was a past thread discussing the email in which some disputed its authenticity. I don't. I worked for Intel. The email is written in standard Intel-speak - something a never really mastered.]

 

[PortlandMama]

Because there seems to be a very limited view of the parking lot from the windows on the east side of the school. Take Kyron down the short flight of steps (and the steps mean there is no line of sight from the hallway) to the parking lot, if there is nobody in the lot go right to the car and leave. If there are people in the lot, just go back into the school and wait for a better time or abort the plan altogether. The biggest risk you run if you get to the car and think you haven't been noticed is someone passing you leaving the school in the truck, which probably wouldn't matter if Kyron was in the back seat.

Thank you! I believe that the same thinking applies to a stranger abduction involving luring. If anyone sees you leaving, abort, return child to school... no harm done (theoretically).

This is exactly where I think Terri took a much bigger risk than a stranger (if Terri is in fact guilty). A stranger, providing he is not very distinctive looking and is NOT confronted, doesn't have to fret too much about "incidental" observations. What I mean to say is that if anyone thinks there is something wrong, they will move quickly to confront--and that gives the stranger the opportunity to "correct" the situation (i.e., abort). If no one registers anything as "wrong," they're unlikely to be able to provide significant identifying information after the fact.

Whereas Terri might have been observed (hmmm... why is Kyron leaving with Terri when the day has just started?) and would never be confronted (nothing would suggest the need to do so). But it would be retrieved quickly as soon as Kyron turned up missing.

:twocents:

 

[Chewy]

I'm thinking about this and about TH's statement that she saw Kyron walk towards his classes. And I wonder if her statement has created doubt in people's minds about her guilt as it does me.

Let's take the case as a LE might. She says this and she says other things. She gets caught in a lie and the fails the LD test. The question she may have failed on was "When is the last time you saw Kyron" then it shows she's lying about this.

So say that TH thought she'd get away with the lie, she thought the school would believe her and that it would stay focused on the school.

She's in the hall with Kyron and says "Kyron I have to go, help me get Baby K back in the truck" he walks out with her and gets in the truck and she says we'll be right back. And leaves.

It would just be that simple.

 

[MysteryAddict]

She's in the hall with Kyron and says "Kyron I have to go, help me get Baby K back in the truck" he walks out with her and gets in the truck and she says we'll be right back. And leaves.

It would just be that simple.

That makes sense except.....

My same old question--Did anyone see baby K with Terri in the school that day????