If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

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That’s a great point, I believe both. I grew up in Boulder so can attest things like this don’t happen there. It’s a beautiful college town where even the old houses falling down are millions of dollars to own. I don’t think the cops were prepared because they hadn’t experienced this. But to your point, they were told to treat the Ramseys as victims, not suspects… just a terrible clash of terrible events all at once.
Yes, I'm in Colorado too....not Boulder but am very familiar with it.

The police not having the experience of dealing with many homicides was certainly a factor. And then there's the fact that this case in particular is so convoluted. Add to that having to deal with a DA and DA's office who appeared to be meddling in the case from day one (oh, who am I kidding? The DA in particular acted unethically) in order to protect the Ramseys, and this case has been a nightmare to navigate. And I think it goes a lot deeper than just the order to treat the Ramseys like victims....my personal opinion, of course.
 
They definitely would and will. The problem is the DA and Boulder police know it won’t hit with any real suspects. I theorize they all know who committed the crime, but there’s really nothing they can do about it now. Yes they can keep “testing” the DNA, but nothing will hit and JR will continue his recent risk free media bombardment knowing that the more he screams DNA, the more this new generation unfamiliar with the facts of the case will see a loving father who just wants the case solved. It’s sad really, but I have to give a nod to JR. He is a master salesman. He’s so cunning and so good at creating the narrative he wants told. I do believe he is on track to rewriting history to the point that the family is seen as victims of the system. Sad, but a fascinating case study forever.
I too believe they know who committed the crime. Their ability to prove it was prevented by higher powers. As long as those higher powers are still walking this earth, we will never know the truth. And as long as there are still people who feel they are at risk by revealing the truth, that's how it will remain.

This most recent push by Team Ramsey which has resulted in a flurry of new interviews, the Netflix mockumentary is interesting to witness. It seems they want to engage a new generation and sway them into seeing the family as victims. John is 81 and while still a master salesman as noted, he is also notably not as sharp as he was. I think he's setting the stage to hand off to JAR, who is much less compelling in pushing the narrative. He's too quick to anger and does not have the communication skills that John did.
 
He was a great detective, not going to deny that. But in this case, he got tunnel vision and would not accept that the parents could have done this, despite the evidence. This set the case back even further than it already had been, and is the reason many believe some of the false evidence we see today.
I was just about to say the same.....Lou got taken in by John in particular and lost his objectivity. He definitely is responsible for a lot of the misinformation that still persist today.

I do think people get caught up in Lou's reputation which in my opinion was overblown. Yes, he was good and he had a good solve rate. The case that is most referred to is of course that of Heather Dawn Church. What a lot of people don't seem to know that it was actually a technician who solved the case not Lou himself, although he took the credit. Lou's biggest attribute was his doggedness. But honestly, some of his theories about the Ramsey case that he was so insistent on were pretty far fetched.
 
Lou was a smart detective, even after he retired he investigated it trying to give pr

That’s a good point. It only really makes sense to me if the intruder was very unstable and irrational. Did they want money, did they want to take her away with them, were they angry, or remorseful? I think it had to be someone who was all of the above if it were someone outside the three others at home. Somebody who themselves didn’t even have an end goal in mind and did not have organized thinking. I think it’s either that or, the result of multiple people doing different things and covering up bits and adding stuff. It’s why the evidence and the supposed kidnapping narrative are layered and contradictory imo. But I’m moving from RDI to someone in their circle. Idk whether they know exactly who but I think they knew they played some part by making their daughter vulnerable to someone they shouldn’t have trusted.
IMHO. Someone that disorganized is less likely to commit a crime , stay at the scene of the crime for hours and make no mistakes, leave no evidence, and be VERY organized in the execution of the crime.
 
How about a different spin on an old theory? Burke did it and acted alone.

When I say that I mean everything. The murder, the things done to JBR after her death, the attempt to clean up the crime scene as best as possible and even, yes...even the note!

I keep hearing how BR was only 9, but in fact, he was nearly 10. And from what I have seen of this child, and knowing of other children on the spectrum, I feel strongly that BR is on the spectrum and demonstrates several aspects of savant behavior. BR is awkward and has trouble showing empathy and normal social interaction skills. But I feel he is brilliant. He writes software and has a highly analytical mind. And a huge part in living as a person on the spectrum is repeating things they hear and see, particularly on TV shows and movies. My nephew is autistic and every conversation I have ever had with him involves the use of memorized lines from movies and TV.

So here is my theory:
BR is awake and goes downstairs and makes himself some pineapple and milk. A midnight snack. He eats a bit and goes downstairs to play with new toys and maybe look for hidden presents for his birthday (the ones they were supposed to take to Michigan.) JBR has a bedwetting accident and looks for BR and he's not in his room, so she heads downstairs. She sees the pineapple and also has a few bites and decides to look for BR, maybe she hears noise in the basement. JBR heads downstairs and catches BR in the act of peeking in his birthday presents and she says "awww...I'm going to tell Mom!!!" She turns to go upstairs and fearing getting in trouble, he hits her over the head with the flashlight. She is dead, or at least he thinks so. He prods her with a piece of the train set several times to make sure.

He knows he needs to hide her and puts the suitcase by the window and realizes he can't lift her out the window, so he goes and drags her to the hidden room where she was found. Having a history of harming her, putting feces on her things and the previous "experimentation, I have no problem thinking he would then start "playing" with her body. He has likely put something up her in the past due to existence of previous sexual assault. He uses the paintbrush on her once and then decides to try and cover up the murder and make it look like someone else did it, so he makes the garotte (it's really not that difficult) and tries to make it look like someone strangled her. He puts the tape over her mouth with a little heart and leaves her there. He may have even put the blanket on her because he felt bad. She was his sister and that's what a normal brother would do.

He then decides to buy himself some time and make it look like a kidnapping. Or maybe he just thinks if they think she's gone no one will look for her in the house and maybe she'd be down there forever. His mother taught him to write, so it wouldn't shock me that he would use handwriting like hers. He wanted the note to sound like grown ups he's heard speaking and things he's seen on TV. He knew many a turn of phrase of his moms, Fleet may have called him a fat cat or whatever. The note is a bunch of gobblygook. He left the note where he knew his mom would see it when she came down and went to bed, but probably not to sleep.

He hears his mom yell and dad come down and the conversation on the phone. "What did you find?" We're not talking to you..go back to bed..." He does and when he does get up he pretends to know nothing. So they assume he doesn't remember coming down and chalk it up to just keeping it a secret because who cares right? He had nothing to do with it and don't want him questioned by police. They may have a fear he may have done it as well.

Then the rest. Fingerprints, fibers of anything mean nothing to me. Fibers are transferred so easily particularly within a family and at a time where there is a lot of hugging and close contact like on Christmas Day. Maybe JR truly believes BR is innocent and wants to solve the case before he dies. I don't know. But just a theory.

Lastly, this theory can still work with PR writing finding the body and writing the note to cover for BR.
 
He was a great detective, not going to deny that. But in this case, he got tunnel vision and would not accept that the parents could have done this, despite the evidence. This set the case back even further than it already had been, and is the reason many believe some of the false evidence we see today.
Just watched 20/20 & they parents & son were cleared of all wrong doing . Lou passed away but his daughter is carrying on the torch to solve the murder . Jb would be 34 years old . Wow !
 
My theory is that PR hit JBR with something when she was angry and then choked her to death with her hands. She started covering it up: the garrotte, the sa, and writing the ransom note (using her left hand to disguise her handwriting). The references to JR's $118,000 bonus and good southern common sense were included to make JR believe someone he used to work with killed her. He initially believed this but later realized his wife had written the note. When he confronted PR she either said she killed JBR and he chose to stand by her or PR lied and said she covered it up because BR had done it. Any prior abuse of JBR had nothing to do with the murder or coverup.

The coverup was so extreme (imo) because PR felt it was the only way JR would believe she didn't do it.
 
How about a different spin on an old theory? Burke did it and acted alone.

When I say that I mean everything. The murder, the things done to JBR after her death, the attempt to clean up the crime scene as best as possible and even, yes...even the note!

I keep hearing how BR was only 9, but in fact, he was nearly 10. And from what I have seen of this child, and knowing of other children on the spectrum, I feel strongly that BR is on the spectrum and demonstrates several aspects of savant behavior. BR is awkward and has trouble showing empathy and normal social interaction skills. But I feel he is brilliant. He writes software and has a highly analytical mind. And a huge part in living as a person on the spectrum is repeating things they hear and see, particularly on TV shows and movies. My nephew is autistic and every conversation I have ever had with him involves the use of memorized lines from movies and TV.

So here is my theory:
BR is awake and goes downstairs and makes himself some pineapple and milk. A midnight snack. He eats a bit and goes downstairs to play with new toys and maybe look for hidden presents for his birthday (the ones they were supposed to take to Michigan.) JBR has a bedwetting accident and looks for BR and he's not in his room, so she heads downstairs. She sees the pineapple and also has a few bites and decides to look for BR, maybe she hears noise in the basement. JBR heads downstairs and catches BR in the act of peeking in his birthday presents and she says "awww...I'm going to tell Mom!!!" She turns to go upstairs and fearing getting in trouble, he hits her over the head with the flashlight. She is dead, or at least he thinks so. He prods her with a piece of the train set several times to make sure.

He knows he needs to hide her and puts the suitcase by the window and realizes he can't lift her out the window, so he goes and drags her to the hidden room where she was found. Having a history of harming her, putting feces on her things and the previous "experimentation, I have no problem thinking he would then start "playing" with her body. He has likely put something up her in the past due to existence of previous sexual assault. He uses the paintbrush on her once and then decides to try and cover up the murder and make it look like someone else did it, so he makes the garotte (it's really not that difficult) and tries to make it look like someone strangled her. He puts the tape over her mouth with a little heart and leaves her there. He may have even put the blanket on her because he felt bad. She was his sister and that's what a normal brother would do.

He then decides to buy himself some time and make it look like a kidnapping. Or maybe he just thinks if they think she's gone no one will look for her in the house and maybe she'd be down there forever. His mother taught him to write, so it wouldn't shock me that he would use handwriting like hers. He wanted the note to sound like grown ups he's heard speaking and things he's seen on TV. He knew many a turn of phrase of his moms, Fleet may have called him a fat cat or whatever. The note is a bunch of gobblygook. He left the note where he knew his mom would see it when she came down and went to bed, but probably not to sleep.

He hears his mom yell and dad come down and the conversation on the phone. "What did you find?" We're not talking to you..go back to bed..." He does and when he does get up he pretends to know nothing. So they assume he doesn't remember coming down and chalk it up to just keeping it a secret because who cares right? He had nothing to do with it and don't want him questioned by police. They may have a fear he may have done it as well.

Then the rest. Fingerprints, fibers of anything mean nothing to me. Fibers are transferred so easily particularly within a family and at a time where there is a lot of hugging and close contact like on Christmas Day. Maybe JR truly believes BR is innocent and wants to solve the case before he dies. I don't know. But just a theory.

Lastly, this theory can still work with PR writing finding the body and writing the note to cover for BR.
Very well thought out! I actually agree with you 100% all the way up the point where the cover up starts. Let me give my amended theory using your exact start:

JBR IS asleep when they return but BR is wide awake. They put JBR to bed without changing her clothes because they don’t want to wake her up. JBR is in bed but awakes and hears BR going downstairs. She gets out of bed, puts on the oversized underwear and long John’s to be comfortable and likely more quiet as black velvet pants could make noise. She finds BR making the pineapple using a dirty bowl in the sink or dishwasher that hasn’t ran yet (PRs fingerprints on the bowl but not tea glass.) PR is upstairs packing (which is why she never changes clothes that night.) They both eat a bit and then BR goes downstairs, maybe to peak at the hidden presents in the wine cellar. (The half torn open gifts found there?) He’s not supposed to be down there so can’t turn on the lights, so he grabs the flashlight and goes down, keeping the lights off. JBR follows and catches BR in the act of peeking in his birthday presents and she says "awww...I'm going to tell Mom!!!" She turns to go upstairs and fearing getting in trouble, he hits her over the head with the flashlight. She is dead, or at least he thinks so. He prods her with a piece of the train set several times to make sure.

I theorize that BR goes back upstairs tells her she’s dead and she panics. She has been drinking at the party, may have been on some medications that didn’t mix well, and with this new development her critical thinking skills evaporate. She sends BR back to bed and spends the next 45 minutes (up to 2 hours) trying to decide what to do. JBR hasn’t woken up yet, and PR is now sure she’s dead. PR is in FULL BLOWN PANIC MODE. Finally, she decides on the kidnapping defense and begins staging the scene. This is why her clothing fibers from that very night are found INSIDE the knots on the garrote, in the paint tray, underneath the tape, and all over the blanket/body. I theorize JBR was lying face down in the hallway (where the urine stain was found, so PR could use the garrote without looking at her,) pulling it tightly enough ONLY to look like a sadistic killer had done it. This is why there was no internal damage to her wind pipe!! She needs it to look real when she’s found, so she inserts the handle into JBR (just one time) to make it look real.

She then takes JBR and tries to put her into the suitcase, but she’s either too big or PR has too much guilt about denying her proper burial. (Remember the line about denying her proper burial in the ransom note!! This is also why fibers from the bed skirt inside the suitcase were found on the body!!)

She drags JBR by her arms into the adjacent wine cellar and rolls her onto the blanket on her back, wrapping her. She places the tape and chord to look like she had been restrained, then heads upstairs again.

She then needs a new plan. She was planning to write a ransom note, but now she also needs an excuse to somehow get the body out of the house! She begins writing the ransom note, directing it to JR (remember she starts by including both of them in her first attempt but starts over,) in hopes that he may leave the house to get the money and give her time to get the body out.

She finishes the ransom note and it’s nearly time for their alarm to go off. I theorize that JR wakes up and goes downstairs, possibly finding PR
Just watched 20/20 & they parents & son were cleared of all wrong doing . Lou passed away but his daughter is carrying on the torch to solve the murder . Jb would be 34 years old . Wow !

Oh my god. Please, you yourself and (tell everyone you know) to PLEASE research the entire case before this John Ramsey media tour erases the real facts of the case. Propaganda is rampant!

- “Boulder Daily Camera's investigation published Thursday found the DNA results in the Bode report are not necessarily as clear cut as Lacy concluded they were. According to the Daily Camera, they showed the Bode report to independent experts who say that the DNA samples from both the underwear and long johns may be composite samples from multiple people: JonBenet, an unknown male and, in one sample, a third unidentified person. To the extent composites were used in the search to identify the killer, the investigation states that the DNA profile "may be worthless as evidence." According to the paper, the possible presence of a third individual's DNA on the long johns has never been publicly revealed.

The experts also stated that the presence of the DNA on JonBenet's undergarments could have an innocent explanation because the "profiles were developed from minute samples that could have been the result of inconsequential contact with other people or transferred from another piece of clothing."

According to the paper, these opinions "cut both ways" on the competing theories of the case. They neither disprove the intruder theory nor "implicate or exonerate anyone in the family."


Former Adams County DA Bob Grant, one of a number of consultants on the case brought in early on by the Boulder County DA at the time, Hunter, told ABC News he was confounded by Lacy's 2008 decision. "This is craziness," he said. "This is not what prosecutors do. If prosecutors are going to exonerate someone they do it by charging someone else."

- “But Lacy didn't charge anyone else in the murder. Instead, armed with newly discovered DNA evidence found on JonBenet's long johns that Lacy said she believes belongs to JonBenet's unknown murderer, she sent the Ramseys a letter of apology. It read, in part, "to the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime, I am deeply sorry." The letter made international news.
 
Then why lie and say she just found it that morning? Why wait so long to call the police? Why all the fibers of those clothes on nearly every item involved in the crime?
Maybe because she then discovered JBR body and JR had convinced her to lie ??
Weren’t the fibres from family members - not unidentified people ( that was my understanding)
 
They definitely would and will. The problem is the DA and Boulder police know it won’t hit with any real suspects. I theorize they all know who committed the crime, but there’s really nothing they can do about it now. Yes they can keep “testing” the DNA, but nothing will hit and JR will continue his recent risk free media bombardment knowing that the more he screams DNA, the more this new generation unfamiliar with the facts of the case will see a loving father who just wants the case solved. It’s sad really, but I have to give a nod to JR. He is a master salesman. He’s so cunning and so good at creating the narrative he wants told. I do believe he is on track to rewriting history to the point that the family is seen as victims of the system. Sad, but a fascinating case study forever.
Spot on - I believe
 
I was just about to say the same.....Lou got taken in by John in particular and lost his objectivity. He definitely is responsible for a lot of the misinformation that still persist today.

I do think people get caught up in Lou's reputation which in my opinion was overblown. Yes, he was good and he had a good solve rate. The case that is most referred to is of course that of Heather Dawn Church. What a lot of people don't seem to know that it was actually a technician who solved the case not Lou himself, although he took the credit. Lou's biggest attribute was his doggedness. But honestly, some of his theories about the Ramsey case that he was so insistent on were pretty far fetched.
If one is to go with the Intruder theory, there is A LOT to prove. A LOT of missing puzzle pieces to find and fit into the grand scheme of things. Whereas RDI, it's fewer missing pieces. However, we may never find them.
 
I've been browsing the forum for many yrs. and the only Burke evidence seems to be the very, very strongly held belief that the parents would not cover for each other. Other than that, a lot of people believe the wording of the grand jury indictments is somehow suggestive of a 3rd party and people therefore assume that 3rd party must be Burke.
 
I've been browsing the forum for many yrs. and the only Burke evidence seems to be the very, very strongly held belief that the parents would not cover for each other. Other than that, a lot of people believe the wording of the grand jury indictments is somehow suggestive of a 3rd party and people therefore assume that 3rd party must be Burke.
Personally, I do not read the true bills that way....that they point to a 3rd party. I think they point directly at both parents. Each covering for the other.
 
Burke testified to the GJ. Although, he could not be charged criminally, he would have been removed from his parents, if the GJ thought him involved with the killing. Of course, BR may have told them things which cast shadows on Mom and Dad. AH lied that there were no indictments returned. They were only disclosed after many years.

The GJ did not buy LS's intruder(s) theory. Maybe because there was no evidence to support it? ITA that LS was taken in by John. Like W looking into Putin's eyes. LS never performed his desperate, silly window trick under the same circumstances as on Christmas.

JR is 81. Wow. And still, he has no coherent scenario to deflect guilt from him and his family. All the money, the lawyers, the PR moves add up to zero for Team R in the 4th quarter. Just running out the clock.

The penetration with Patsy's paintbrush was likely staging. While the person who did this may not have been the murderer, in doing so, they indicated knowledge of the chronic SA. Wiping JB down also betrayed this knowledge. By using the brush, there was a foolish (or childish) hope that JB's history could be disguised? What had been happening to her is central to the crime. "I don't feel pretty." This gets back to the persistent question of whether or not the abuser was also the killer?

Indeed, I do appreciate the exchange of views here. However, as many can attest, it does become somewhat troublesome to deal with those who choose to criticize without a substantive grasp of the facts on their part. Moreover, it proves both laborious and fruitless to offer corrections. Sigh.
 
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I've been browsing the forum for many yrs. and the only Burke evidence seems to be the very, very strongly held belief that the parents would not cover for each other. Other than that, a lot of people believe the wording of the grand jury indictments is somehow suggestive of a 3rd party and people therefore assume that 3rd party must be Burke.
I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think that’s quite accurate. The evidence actually points to the family being involved in a cover-up, and there are several reasons why this aligns more with Burke than with a third-party intruder or random family snapping scenario.

First, there’s no indication the parents would suddenly snap one night and resort to such an elaborate and inconsistent crime scene staging. However, we do see evidence of behavior that suggests a child could be involved. For example, the pineapple in the bowl, which appears to have been prepared or eaten by a child, the train track marks that are consistent with a poke or jab on her body, and the baffling 45-minute to 2-hour gap between the head trauma and the use of the garrote. These suggest a progression of events that are more consistent with a panicked attempt to cover up an accident or unintentional harm.

The family’s actions afterward are also telling. They went to great lengths to shield Burke, including removing him from the house immediately, blocking access to his medical records, and essentially removing him from the public eye for most of his life. These behaviors are consistent with parents trying to protect a child rather than cover for each other.

When you piece all this together—the specific evidence pointing toward a child’s involvement, the timeline inconsistencies, and the extraordinary lengths the family took to shield Burke—it forms a cohesive narrative that aligns with him being the central figure in the events leading up to the cover-up. Most of the loose ends seem to fit neatly into this theory, much more than alternative explanations involving the parents acting alone or an unknown third party.
 
baffling 45-minute to 2-hour gap between the head trauma and the use of the garrote.
It's baffling, because I think the coronial report is actually wrong. I would suggest a modern review of the case would show the garrotte and ligatures were applied well after she was dead. My estimate is about 4 hours.

If you look at the ligature marks published in online photographs, you will see the indentation of the ligatures and post mortem accumulation of blood within the ligature marks. If the ligatures had been placed either before or immediately after death (a couple of hours), the ligatures would be blanched of blood. There should be a rim around the ligatures. There is no sign of movement or struggle. These ligatures could only of been placed about 4 hours after death.

The secret to resolving this case is to have the autopsy reviewed.

There are other issues which cloud the case and have proven to create confusion. The whole idea that JBR was sexually assaulted is one of them. Very little to no proof at all.
 
It's baffling, because I think the coronial report is actually wrong. I would suggest a modern review of the case would show the garrotte and ligatures were applied well after she was dead. My estimate is about 4 hours.

If you look at the ligature marks published in online photographs, you will see the indentation of the ligatures and post mortem accumulation of blood within the ligature marks. If the ligatures had been placed either before or immediately after death (a couple of hours), the ligatures would be blanched of blood. There should be a rim around the ligatures. There is no sign of movement or struggle. These ligatures could only of been placed about 4 hours after death.

The secret to resolving this case is to have the autopsy reviewed.

There are other issues which cloud the case and have proven to create confusion. The whole idea that JBR was sexually assaulted is one of them. Very little to no proof at all.
Wow I have never heard this! Do you have any sources on this so I can look into it?
 
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