GUILTY IL - Antinette 'Toni' Keller, 18, DeKalb, NIU Student, 14 October 2010

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM

I don't know if for certain they did not find a skull so please do not come to that conclusion after reading my post. If you read my statement it says "I was trying to come up with a reason why LE might not have found a skull when they came across Antinette's remains." This was in response to watcher9's post about "I haven't heard yet if they actually found a skull. Maybe the perp kept it."

Yes you would certainly think that if a human skull was lying there as we know a human skull should look, LE would have certainly known the remains were that of a human and it wouldn't have taken a week or so before they announce they had found human remains. Which leads me to believe and others to I think speculate that the skull might be missing or at least the skull was not reconcilable as a human skull in the form which we think a human skull should look and that is why it took so long to announce they had found remains of a human.


But then again this is LE and they would look pretty incompetent if they were to announce that they had found human remains only to have to come back a few days later and say something like this "Opp's we made a mistake. We just heard back from the lab and it just so happens that the remains we said were human remains turned out to be that of some sort of dead animal. Sorry everyone for the mix up, the search is back on."

Can you imagine what everyone would be saying if that had happen. Skull or not LE is going to cross their T's and dot their I's.

Weren't they doing water searches AFTER they found the 'bones' but before they knew if they were human or not? So they continued the search regardless but it may mean they are/were still missing something. :waitasec:

 

[italianangel2411]

there was a picture just posted on the fb page from someone that took a pic of prairie park by the caution tapes, sorry i couldnt get it to copy n paste

 

[italianangel2411]

i know they did a search in lake or river by prairie park but they said its not as deep as it usually is bc the lack of rain but still someone could of drowned but the search came up empty

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Is there constructon going on currently???
I see there is a liquor store close by, could alcohol be the accelerant?

I noticed the constuction too and thought to myself 'then there's that group of people' (no offense to construction workers but they may be in the area). But there's no way to know when that picture was taken, or is there? Maybe one of the locals can tell us if there is currently constuction going on in front of the Elk's Lodge.

Also I noticed that there's a Motel 6 a little further west of the Elk's Lodge.

 

[Cubby]

there was a picture just posted on the fb page from someone that took a pic of prairie park by the caution tapes, sorry i couldnt get it to copy n paste

Please don't copy and paste from FB. WS does not allow direct copy and paste from social networks such as FB. Please use links and paraphrase comments when discussing comments.

Also, anything that has been removed from FB or if a FB is made private it is no longer allowed to be part of the discussion here at WS.

I'm adding this here, not to call you out italianangel, but because we have so many new members who have joined us here at WS discussing Tonis' case, I wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the above rule.

Welcome newbies! Thank you for joining WS and thank you for your interest in Toni's case.

Cubby

 

[Woe.be.gone]

i know they did a search in lake or river by prairie park but they said its not as deep as it usually is bc the lack of rain but still someone could of drowned but the search came up empty

I'm thinking along the lines that if they found burnt bones but no skull they may have continued to look for more body parts or even a weapon of some sort. Anything that could be related to the crime - empty cans/bottle of liquid that could have been used as an accelerant.

 

[KR2tonenow]

interesting that they find clothing near the "remains" that match what she was last wearing but wait to cordon off the area for all that time????

Strange, huh?? :waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm also a new member of websleuth as of this morning. There seems to be more questions/gaps then facts concerning the remains that have been found. I hope bringing in the FBI and using their available manpower and expertise can help solve this quickly or at the very least establish the identity of the remains. Unbelievable that it has been 11 days since the family has been told "maybe it's Toni". Has anyone done an updated "facts as we know them" sort of list from which to brainstorm? Simpler than it sounds...I know.

Welcome rodie. Let's think :waitasec: about the facts of the case.

1. Toni was last seen around noon on Thursday, October 14. We know she swiped her card at 11:30 AM where ? student center/Holmes (is that what it's still called)?

A group of friends (we don't know who exactly or how many) said she told them she was going to the PP for inspiration for her artwork.

Did she make it all the way into the park? We really don't know, do we.
Did she return to her dorm room first?

They say they found a dorm key in park. They positively id'd it as belonging to Toni. Was it the old one or the recently issued replacement key? Could someone have stolen the old key (to gain access to her room) but she assumed she had lost it?

They found some of her stuff scattered around in the park.

What else?

 

[KR2tonenow]

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around burnt remains reduced to the point you couldn't tell they were human without examination from two labs. Even if the remains were reduced to bones you'd still have a skull, etc. KWIM? Add in short timespan and crowded park. Puzzling.

Right, unless there wasn't a skull....reminiscent of the case in Colorado, decapitation.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Another fact ~ Toni did not show up for her Art Class at 2PM on October 14.

 

[KR2tonenow]

The remains were recovered 10/16 but not confirmed to be human until 10/23. There were signs that the area involved was cordoned off before the 10/23 press conference. I wonder if the area now known to be important was left unsecured for possibly a week (10/14-10/21) before investigators recognized its significance. I hope it wasn't.

Good point...but I think LE is spooked on this case. I am hoping they were fully aware of the remains being out there. Seems they really are quite tight lipped.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Looking at the maps, the park looks large, spread out and very wooded.
I may have missed it, but has the location in the park of the remains been identified? The cross was placed near one of the entrances, but was that because the public does not have access inside the park at this time?
I'm surprised that there has not been any aerial photos of the scene by the media?
In what section of the park are the homeless camping? The fire pits?
Are there any factories around the park that could emit a strong odor?
The idea of someone else's bones being placed there is intriguing.

I was wondering about students partying out there. Students having bon fires, drinking and wild sex. Has any of that ever been reported before in this area of the park?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Here are some comments from a forensic anthropologist, Dr. Snow ~

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20020900-504083.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

 

[eyes4crime]

Here are some comments from a forensic anthropologist, Dr. Snow ~

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20020900-504083.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

*snip*

"I assume that in this case some sort of accelerant was used to burn the body," said forensic anthropologist Dr. Clyde Snow. "Ordinary fires will not cause that much destruction." *snip*

According to Dr. Snow it may not have been possible for authorities to use dental records to make a positive ID.

"With very intense fires, the whole skull, including the dentition, could be so badly damaged or destroyed. The teeth, for example, with intense heat will crack," he said.

DNA may be the only route to identifying whether the body found is in fact Keller's and Dr. Snow says that takes time because it has to be compared to family members' DNA. *snip*

Woe.be.gone, I clipped a few sentences from the link you put up - thanks so much for finding that. I've been wanting to see what a forensic anthropologist has to say. :blowkiss:

 

[rodie]

Welcome rodie. Let's think :waitasec: about the facts of the case.

1. Toni was last seen around noon on Thursday, October 14. We know she swiped her card at 11:30 AM where ? student center/Holmes (is that what it's still called)?

A group of friends (we don't know who exactly or how many) said she told them she was going to the PP for inspiration for her artwork.

Did she make it all the way into the park? We really don't know, do we.
Did she return to her dorm room first?

They say they found a dorm key in park. They positively id'd it as belonging to Toni. Was it the old one or the recently issued replacement key? Could someone have stolen the old key (to gain access to her room) but she assumed she had lost it?

They found some of her stuff scattered around in the park.

What else?

Well, if, according to the Daily Chronicle on 10/20, we are to believe that prior canine searches were conducted from the dorm and led to the I-88 area and then went cold, then an educated assumption would be that she was abducted and then perhaps brought back to the park. How else do the police explain that there was no scent that led to the park initially and that human remains were missed by the first search? (surrounded by personal effects of Toni???)
And technically, we don't know whose remains have been found.
We know that a large, sustained fire would be necessary to have left the remains unidentifiable by autopsy....a fire in a public park that no-one noticed, in any sense, oddly.
We know that Toni's personal items were left at the scene...but not "why" they were left there for all to see.
Why cloak the remains but highlight the items?
Disturbing.

 

[Cubby]

Here are some comments from a forensic anthropologist, Dr. Snow ~

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20020900-504083.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

from the above link:
DNA may be the only route to identifying whether the body found is in fact Keller's and Dr. Snow says that takes time because it has to be compared to family members' DNA.

I really wish LE would make a ball park estimate on how long it will take the remains to be identified. Clearly it's not a pc of info they are holding back that the remains are badly burnt.... that's already out there so why not say several weeks, possibly a month or longer? I can't recall a case where LE just said they didn't know how long... usually I recall seeing at least a ball park figure.

jmo

 

[Soul125]

Others have commented on maybe she was brought back to the park. Possibly... But why would somebody bring her body back to be found with her belongings? That sure isn't the way to avoid being caught. This is a strange crime in some ways. What motive would somebode have or is this likely just a random crime. Burning a body in a park would take hours wouldn't it? Who would be crazy enough to do that risking being caught? And if she was taken someplace else, why on earth bring her back?

 

[italianangel2411]

Sorry Cubby I am glad I did not post the pic now. Thanks for letting me know.
The dorm key, it was stated by her family that the one found in the park was indeed the new dorm key and not the old one.

 

[SuziQ]

FWIW. It's not uncommon for a perp to get burned pretty good in the process of lighting a body doused in accelerant. Many of them break down and go to an ER.

 

[italianangel2411]

LE said at the presser that the only focus is prairie park so they are asking anyone that saw or smelt fire oct 14th afternoon-oct 15th
has anyone on this board been to that park? if so, where are the fire pits to make fires? is it usually busy where they are located? im thinking someone knew her schedule, maybe this wasn't her first time sketching and taking photos in the park for an art class. It could be someone that knew she was heading in the park and I would looooove to her some information on this ex boyfriend. does he go to school there? i havent heard any male interest really come out, i would think a ex boyfriend would be really upset about this. i read a post on her facebook page that a girl met her a day before her disappearance and they talked briefly and offered Toni a hug and she accepted and they smiled at each other. I wonder what bothered Toni the day before her disappearance that she needed a hug. hmm