IL IL - Debbie Fijan, 10, DuPage County, 11 Feb 1966 - #1

[Cubby]

The knife LS turned over to LE was a pen knife. The other knife I only heard of once. This is a great question. LE at first said the pen knife was too small to be the murder weapon.

Wayne Shimp of the DuPage County Bureau of Investigation said the auto tire marks and boot tracks made by Debbie indicated she entered a car at a point about a block west of the school. The casts of the tire marks appear to be similar to those found in the ditch where Debbie was found. John Schofield lived on Fair Oaks Road. I was curious about that too.

DuPage County should do some testing considering they have some extra money in their budget this year.

TY!

I hope they would consider using some of last years budget surplus to spend on this case.

Which article was it that the coroner thought the wounds looked like they came from a pen knife, but not 'the' pen knife LS turned over or was found in the gymnasium. I remember reading the coronor saying the wounds were from a 'small pen like' knife or something similiar. I would still like to clarify if they were the same knife or two different knives. Do we know who ( not name, but LE, LS or someone in the school) found the knife in the gymnasium?

A block west of the school could technically be about Fair Oaks and St. Charles. I'd love to pin point were she entered the car on a map. I'd also love to know if DuPage ever took 'casts' or tested LS's tires or any vehicles he had access too. Can't help but ask the question...... It is possible that LS was telling the truth when he said he saw Debbie on the swing and sent her on her way home, waited for her to start walking aways so he could pick her up without being seen by anyone at the school. If he had access to more than one vehicle, it is possible he didn't take his usual car that day which is why no one from the school recognized the man Debbie was talking to and got into the car with? Again, I'd love to pin point where she was picked up. When I go to either the library or court house to get the property information, I could see if the property on Fair Oaks near St. Charles were vacant at the time or had homes on them...... If the location where she was picked up had no homes built at the time it would give further support to that theory, imo.

Looking at the map, it is possible whomever picked up Debbie, depending on where exactly they picked her up would have passed Fair Oaks and continued west on St. Charles Rd. Then turned north on Klein Rd. Followed Klein to Smith to Army Trail and then gone back south on Fair Oaks to lies. Making a circle of the area and back to her home. Makes me wonder if LE was able to determine from which direction the tracks were from, driving north or south?


Klien Rd appears to be less populated with homes than Fair Oaks does today, and it is also more 'woodsy' if anyone looks at the street view. That's the only thing I can come up with regarding that Deep Quarry Lake. FWIW, I did look at the DuPage County Forest Preserve fishing info and that lake is about 45' deep in the middle. Just another thought. Especially since it is obvious the drive from the school to where she was found is so close!

 

[Cubby]

This is awesome, thank you for taking the time to post this! I now wonder about that article I read where she was found out of town by the quarry. And John Schofields farm is on Fair Oaks Road and where does that figure into this?

I commented about the quarry in my previous post so won't repeat it here. If I had to guess, and this is only a guess, the Schofield Family farm (which IIRC you said was a half mile from where Debbie was found? Correct me if I am wrong) was on the East side of Fair Oaks and close to Lies. I can't say if it was north or south of Lies but the north east corner of that intersection still has a patch of land that is farmed. I'm trying to find out.... I have searched and searched and can not find a thing about that property being sold. At least not online. Not sure if I am looking in the right place though. I can't even find info indicating whether or not JS is still living. I'm 95% sure LS is......

 

[Cubby]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=41.912497,-88.172321&daddr=28w524+wynn+street+west+chicago+illinois+to:Fair+Oaks+Rd+%26+Lies+West+Chicago+Illinois&hl=en&geocode=%3BFY6qfwIdvIK--ilPQmgKEgAPiDGtBWlu4JaqWw%3BFVzLfwIdlo---ilZBK7bcwAPiDFzoE3sNaQPMg&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=14&sll=41.919268,-88.167644&sspn=0.027143,0.055017&ie=UTF8&ll=41.922908,-88.166571&spn=0.027141,0.087547&t=h&z=14

For the heck of it I changed the directions on the above map from driving to walking. As I guessed it is appx a 16 minute walk from the school to Debbies home.

Oddly, the distance between both the school and Debbies home and where Debbie was found to Debbies home is exactly .8 miles to each location. Kind of odd they are both exact.

 

[Cubby]

Was there ever any witnesses to verify LS was still at the school when Debbies mother arrived to pick her up and she wasn't there? Could any witness verify when exactly LS left the school that day? It would seem to me, if someone else, a custodian, another teacher, a parent...could verify LS had not left when Debbie went missing that would have provided him an aliby. Hmmm.....

another PTV (pay-to-view) article

Another PTV

Find W. Chicago Girl Slain

[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Feb 12, 1966[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]jamin elementary school on St. Charles road in West Chicago. ... Loren Schofield, a teacher at the school, told police that he saw Debbie and several other ... [/SIZE]

So we can all figure out LS claimed to have seen Debbie with other students. Were these other students interviewed to determine the accuracy of LS's statement? Did these students leave before or after Debbie went missing. Did they see LS leave the school and if so, how soon after Debbie left?


so many questions. I wonder if LE ever reinterviewed any of the witnesses they interviewed back then. I wonder if any could be found today if they were never reinterviewed.........

 

[Cubby]

We know LE has castings of the tire marks from where Debbie entered the car and where she was found. Did anyone ever look to see if tire marks could have been taken from where LS's car was parked at the school? Or did LE ever try to match tire marks from the school parking lot? Certainly they would have found out where LS parked his car that day... I think that would have been a little too far fetched to forget, no?

We know LS went back to the school sometime later to burn the pornographic pictured he had in his desk. Is it possible he could have also showered or cleaned up in the locker room if that school had locker rooms. I don't know how many grade schools have locker rooms. I know at the time the student body was either KG through 8th or 1st through 8th. If there was a locker room, did LE check for any signs of cleaning up the from the crime? evidence of blood?

 

[Cubby]

Found this article about a man who was convicted of several rapes and murders in the area. While his MO included bite marks, one of his victims was a 14 year old girl whose body was found badly beaten near her home in Carol Stream on September 13, 1972. I don't know his age or if he was in the area when Debbie was murdered but it wouldn't hurt to do a little digging on the perp in this case. One of his other murders was a mother and her 3 yr old child, so age wasn't necessarily a factor to this guy. We also don't know if Debbie was tall for her age. In 5th grade I was already 5'2" so she could have been as tall as an adult already.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...q=wayne+shimp+dupage+county+bureau+of+i&hl=en

 

[Cubby]

This might give us a little more information on how the family farm relates to this case. This is a pay-to-view link, so just copying the google info listed with the search.

SEEK KNIFE IN DEBBIE DEATH

[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Feb 16, 1966[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]His wife and 6-month old child are stay- ing with his parents, Mr. and Mrs. John Schofield, at their farm on Fair Oaks road near Carol Stream. ... [/SIZE]

 

[Cubby]

Hinky meter going up. Debbie had only lived in this home for a year, so she was likely a student at Benjamin less than a full year for 4th grade when LS was her teacher. Was it unusual back then for a new student to get so close to her teacher she spent time at his home?

Copied again since this too is a PTV link. (I'm just going to use PTV, tired of typing it out.)


Slain Girl's Mother Calm in Her Grief
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver[SIZE=-1] - Feb 13, 1966[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Fijans live in a large four-bedroom home set in the rolling countryside near West Chicago. The family moved there from Wheaton a year ago. ... [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]All 11 related[/SIZE] - [SIZE=-1]Related web pages[/SIZE]

 

[Cubby]

Another PTV

Karefree, when you have a free moment could I ask you to upload the above articles? I'm really curious to read them now. When you can if you don't mind.

tia

 

[Cubby]

A little more miscellaneous info I have found from the google search archived news with various names and phrases mentioned in the above articles.

LS was a native of the area. He attended a local catholic grade school which is very close to the area on Fair Oaks. (No, not the new church on Lies Rd., that one doesn't have a grade school, only religious education.) If he did not live his entire life on that farm, he lived close enough to the area he knew it well.

 

[Abbey5]

TY!

I hope they would consider using some of last years budget surplus to spend on this case.

Which article was it that the coroner thought the wounds looked like they came from a pen knife, but not 'the' pen knife LS turned over or was found in the gymnasium. I remember reading the coronor saying the wounds were from a 'small pen like' knife or something similiar. I would still like to clarify if they were the same knife or two different knives. Do we know who ( not name, but LE, LS or someone in the school) found the knife in the gymnasium?

I don't remember reading an article where the coroner thought the wounds looked like they came from a pen knife but not the pen knife LS turned over. And I have only read one article about the knife found in the gym and I think its on this thread somewhere. I'll have to go back and look. I have to say that I am quite discouraged reading these articles because so many of them have information that does not match up. I really don't know what to believe anymore. I found this article today that was interesting. I say that because I have a hugh hunch that there was some pressure out there to make this case go away. In the Southern Illinoisan 2-21-1966. The headline states: Little Evidence In Stabbing, Coroner Says. This whole article basically says there is no evidence, murder weapon or motive to bring charges against LS. The coroner blames the lack of enough experienced men to work the case. He said there was no one to call and that this case has emphasized the need for a State Investigative Agency.

 

[Abbey5]

Was there ever any witnesses to verify LS was still at the school when Debbies mother arrived to pick her up and she wasn't there? Could any witness verify when exactly LS left the school that day? It would seem to me, if someone else, a custodian, another teacher, a parent...could verify LS had not left when Debbie went missing that would have provided him an aliby. Hmmm.....

So we can all figure out LS claimed to have seen Debbie with other students. Were these other students interviewed to determine the accuracy of LS's statement? Did these students leave before or after Debbie went missing. Did they see LS leave the school and if so, how soon after Debbie left?


so many questions. I wonder if LE ever reinterviewed any of the witnesses they interviewed back then. I wonder if any could be found today if they were never reinterviewed.........

I found two articles about the timeline when Debbie went missing. The Anderson Herald 2/13/66. Debbie's Mom went to pick her up at school but Debbie wanted to stay for the basketball game (this was at 3:00 p.m.) She went back to pick her up at 5:10 p.m. and Debbie wasn't there. LS saw her with a group of children in the hall and told them to get on the bus. Debbie did not board the bus according to her schoolmates. 15 minutes later LS saw Debbie on a swing outside and she told him she was waiting on her Mom. This article does not state what time LS first saw Debbie or the time when he last saw her.

Edwardsville Intelligencer 2-16-66. LS saw Debbie at 5:30 p.m. at the school yard and told her to go home. She said she was waiting on her Mom. He went home and got a call at 6:30 p.m. from Debbie's parents saying that she was missing. He began a search with a neighbor. During the search he went back to the school and burned some pictures of naked women in the incinerator. Police say he gave conflicting stories on the route he took home from the school.

There was never a time listed as to when the basketball game ended. Her Mom was at the school a 5:10 p.m. and I would think she would know where to look for her daughter or they had a place where Debbie was supppose to be for her to pick her up. LS says he last sees her at 5:30 p.m. I wish the article would have posted the last time her schoolmates saw her. This is a really tight timeline here.

 

[Cubby]

I don't remember reading an article where the coroner thought the wounds looked like they came from a pen knife but not the pen knife LS turned over. And I have only read one article about the knife found in the gym and I think its on this thread somewhere. I'll have to go back and look. I have to say that I am quite discouraged reading these articles because so many of them have information that does not match up. I really don't know what to believe anymore. I found this article today that was interesting. I say that because I have a hugh hunch that there was some pressure out there to make this case go away. In the Southern Illinoisan 2-21-1966. The headline states: Little Evidence In Stabbing, Coroner Says. This whole article basically says there is no evidence, murder weapon or motive to bring charges against LS. The coroner blames the lack of enough experienced men to work the case. He said there was no one to call and that this case has emphasized the need for a State Investigative Agency.

I agree, it is frustrating. Sounds like their was either a rift of some sort between the coroner and those investigating the case, or the coroner had good reason for his comments. It's difficult to tell based on a single case which is almost 35 years old. Something else I have picked up on is back in 1966 the police agencies in DuPage appear to have been each township and not individual cities or towns. Maybe an email or call to DuPage this week will help. I will put that on my to do list to get done before the end of the week.

 

[Cubby]

I found two articles about the timeline when Debbie went missing. The Anderson Herald 2/13/66. Debbie's Mom went to pick her up at school but Debbie wanted to stay for the basketball game (this was at 3:00 p.m.) She went back to pick her up at 5:10 p.m. and Debbie wasn't there. LS saw her with a group of children in the hall and told them to get on the bus. Debbie did not board the bus according to her schoolmates. 15 minutes later LS saw Debbie on a swing outside and she told him she was waiting on her Mom. This article does not state what time LS first saw Debbie or the time when he last saw her.

Edwardsville Intelligencer 2-16-66. LS saw Debbie at 5:30 p.m. at the school yard and told her to go home. She said she was waiting on her Mom. He went home and got a call at 6:30 p.m. from Debbie's parents saying that she was missing. He began a search with a neighbor. During the search he went back to the school and burned some pictures of naked women in the incinerator. Police say he gave conflicting stories on the route he took home from the school.

There was never a time listed as to when the basketball game ended. Her Mom was at the school a 5:10 p.m. and I would think she would know where to look for her daughter or they had a place where Debbie was supppose to be for her to pick her up. LS says he last sees her at 5:30 p.m. I wish the article would have posted the last time her schoolmates saw her. This is a really tight timeline here.

Thank you. This helps. I don't think Debbie would have ridden the bus with her home being so close to the school. I assumed she was a walker or her mom drove her.


The above information only adds to LS's conflicting statements.

• The statement he made to police that he could have done it, he is "sick" and needs help.
• Burns kept in his desk at school around students. Assuming his desk like most teachers is in the classroom, and not in his own office like a college professor may have.
• Burns the clothing he claims to have worn that day- overalls.
• leaves the search party to go back to the school to burn and ?
• gives conflicting statements about the last time he saw Debbie
• gives conflicting statements to police about the route he took home that day.

I will have to go back and look, but IIRC LS had defense wounds? scratches on his hands which he claimed came from raking?

It also doesn't make sense that if Debbie was the time keeper for the basketball team and she didn't have the basketball schedule to know there was a game that day, and that her mother didn't know there was a game that day. I'm sure they could have forgotten, but it seems unlikely three 'check points', schedule, debs mom remembering, deb reminding her mom would have been missed.

This is bugging me. My son is home sick today, so I will try and get that call into DuPage today. I hope they can provide me/us with some additional information I can share here.

 

[Cubby]

I did a little more digging on LS. I wasn't sure I was going to post this but have decided to. There is a Catholic Church in Genoa IL, Dekalb county that actually has an award named after LS. Kind of makes me wanna :sick:
I couldn't imagine naming an award after the prime suspect in an unsolved murder case. Especially an unsolved murder of a child. An even after the church made decision, I would not ever accept an award attached to any name of a prime suspect in an unsolved murder case.

jmo (ya ya, I gotta link if anyone wants it. I just didn't feel like linking the name of the church at WS right now. )

 

[Abbey5]

I did a little more digging on LS. I wasn't sure I was going to post this but have decided to. There is a Catholic Church in Genoa IL, Dekalb county that actually has an award named after LS. Kind of makes me wanna :sick:
I couldn't imagine naming an award after the prime suspect in an unsolved murder case. Especially an unsolved murder of a child. An even after the church made decision, I would not ever accept an award attached to any name of a prime suspect in an unsolved murder case.

jmo (ya ya, I gotta link if anyone wants it. I just didn't feel like linking the name of the church at WS right now. )

Wow!! I really don't even know what to say about this. Genoa, IL is not that far away so, there is no way they didn't know about it. Well, unless they didn't read the newspaper.

 

[Abbey5]

Cubby, from the article I read when Debbie's mom went to pick her up... the basketball game was delayed because of music practice. I don't know when school got out or how long a game lasted back then...maybe an hour? It is weird that she didn't know a game was scheduled that day but then again maybe Debbie didn't keep time at every game?

I too, thought it was weird that she would have got on a school bus to go home. Actually, I thought it was weird that any bus would have been available to any child after a basketball game. I can understand bus service being available to kids after school but not after a game to go home. If this was a visiting team taking kids back to their school, I can understand that.

And the teacher that saw a girl with a pixie haircut like Debbie's talking to a man in a white car. This was checked out by LE. This was the 60's and most of the girls at school probably had pixie hair cuts.

I haven't seen anything on LS wearing overalls. When he got home did he change clothes to go search for her or was he working in his yard after work? He was only home a very short time before Debbie's parents called him.

The defensive wounds on LS. I have never read anything about that before.

The fact that he admitted he burned pictures at the school and his wife said she did at the house. And later they found pitures (from magazines) at the family farm. This is hugh to me. This was 1966. A little girl is missing and this guy is running around burning evidence.

I have more to say but I'm not feeling too good today. Off to bed for now.

 

[Cubby]

Wow!! I really don't even know what to say about this. Genoa, IL is not that far away so, there is no way they didn't know about it. Well, unless they didn't read the newspaper.

That isn't the only other thing about St. Catherines.. ok, I'm spilling the beans. LS also lost a young daughter in August of 1976 on her second birthday. There is a link to a St. Catherines cemetery with the info that just has a little info including her fathers name.

The following is just speculation, my personal opinion based on my rights to freedom of speech.

I think somehow, LS justified in his mind he paid his 'penance' when he lost his own daughter. He seemed to have made some kind of life for himself after the fact. He maintained a good pretense and outward appearance. He went on to regain his 'honor' by having this award named after him, telling himself the Lord already penalized him by taking his baby daughter Joanne, his wife retired from the NIU law library- so his girl, his lady stood by her man- that must mean he was "ok".

I also found an odd blog, where a brother of LS's wife spoke of losing a family member who changed his surname to Smith after he became an atheist to not embarass the family..... LS maintained close contact with his wifes family after her passing. So he was able to keep up the 'facad' he created for himself.

Again, all of the above is my opinion only, and I realize LS was only the primary suspect, never convicted...... so ya ya ya, the presumption of innocence.

another interesting side note. There is an actor with the same name, LS, so google searches give a lot of hits to that actor.... That can be looked at either way.... a blessing or not.

In any case, I am local to this case. My family are 'cradle catholics' so far back I can't begin to find the history.... it goes back to somewhere in Poland or Galacia or whatever it was back then. I also have the patience of a life long Chicago Cub fan.... I can wait, been doing it 101 plus years already.

I am gonna pray that LS conscience gets to him IF he was the perp who commited this crime. He can justify all he wants but one day he will have to face his maker. and IF he was the one, he will have to account for his cover up, his own explainations for his penance and then some......

Debbie DESERVES JUSTICE! No amount of DuPage County hush hush, is going to keep me quiet, nor will it keep me from digging for the truth.

I am on a mission!

 

[Abbey5]

That isn't the only other thing about St. Catherines.. ok, I'm spilling the beans. LS also lost a young daughter in August of 1976 on her second birthday. There is a link to a St. Catherines cemetery with the info that just has a little info including her fathers name.

The following is just speculation, my personal opinion based on my rights to freedom of speech.

I think somehow, LS justified in his mind he paid his 'penance' when he lost his own daughter. He seemed to have made some kind of life for himself after the fact. He maintained a good pretense and outward appearance. He went on to regain his 'honor' by having this award named after him, telling himself the Lord already penalized him by taking his baby daughter Joanne, his wife retired from the NIU law library- so his girl, his lady stood by her man- that must mean he was "ok".

I also found an odd blog, where a brother of LS's wife spoke of losing a family member who changed his surname to Smith after he became an atheist to not embarass the family..... LS maintained close contact with his wifes family after her passing. So he was able to keep up the 'facad' he created for himself.

Again, all of the above is my opinion only, and I realize LS was only the primary suspect, never convicted...... so ya ya ya, the presumption of innocence.

another interesting side note. There is an actor with the same name, LS, so google searches give a lot of hits to that actor.... That can be looked at either way.... a blessing or not.

In any case, I am local to this case. My family are 'cradle catholics' so far back I can't begin to find the history.... it goes back to somewhere in Poland or Galacia or whatever it was back then. I also have the patience of a life long Chicago Cub fan.... I can wait, been doing it 101 plus years already.

I am gonna pray that LS conscience gets to him IF he was the perp who commited this crime. He can justify all he wants but one day he will have to face his maker. and IF he was the one, he will have to account for his cover up, his own explainations for his penance and then some......

Debbie DESERVES JUSTICE! No amount of DuPage County hush hush, is going to keep me quiet, nor will it keep me from digging for the truth.

I am on a mission!

I'm not as local as you are Cubby but I did grow up in NW IN and have lived in the south suburbs of IL for over 16 years. I have been a Chicago Cubs fan my whole life so I totally understand about patience! I'm with you on this one. Debbie deserves justice no matter how long it takes!

 

[Cubby]

I'm not as local as you are Cubby but I did grow up in NW IN and have lived in the south suburbs of IL for over 16 years. I have been a Chicago Cubs fan my whole life so I totally understand about patience! I'm with you on this one. Debbie deserves justice no matter how long it takes!

Neat Abbey,
My roots have an interesting history from Joliet, to the North Side and the Panczko brothers ( the fam still won't tell me and I am too busy 'slewting' to crack that old case) and when I was going for child support in DuPage I had a half lucid family member trying to convince me her ties to the first mayor Daley could help. It was then I first found out about the Daleys gang stuff....
Quite an interesting melting pot with just the local history.

Last time I was on the south side I went to Laribda Childrens hospital... my mom was a patient there in the early 50's... and I have an old buddy who I have known and stayed friends with for about 20 years who lives in the 7th ward. 79th and south shore... I think Jesse Jackson Jr lives in that area.... so I have driven LSD all the way south to Indiana.

Reading 1960's crime news in DuPage reminds me of the wild west... seriously. I read about Fermi lab, and the god forbidden atom, and the indian squatters in Naperville, and DuPage dealing with a bunch of abandoned cars all over the place.... and ROFLMAO about wanting to get rid of COD. I remember my mom going to school there in the K building in the 70's.... nice school.

I read this now, and think, what did my family think when we moved out here in 68? It is eye opening to this gal.

and I just got off the phone with my local LE contact... who started in the mid 80's...

I need to call my godsons grandma.... she was here way back when DuPage was the wild wild west, and she knew.... she knows.... I think they bought here in 66 my family bought here in 68....

To be continued.....