IL - Five killed, 21 injured in shooting at NIU campus, DeKalb, 14 Feb 2008

[golfmom]

All classes are canceled this week to give the students, faculty, staff and parents a chance to grieve.

 

[Paladin]

The kids are all wearing black today in memory of the campus shooting.

That's kind of odd. I know it's a sign of morning but all black is usually what these shooters wear.

 

[philamena]

All classes are canceled this week to give the students, faculty, staff and parents a chance to grieve.

That's a wise decision, imo.

 

[Taximom]

I have a loved one who's taken Paxil and Risperdal for years with no harmful effects. BUT in 2007 Dr's. started questioning the effects of these combined meds. For my loved one they've worked just fine. For others the two taken together can cause sever depression and paranoia because they can cancel each other out.

What if you stop taking one suddenly? I just wondered if not weaning slowly off one of these drugs can cause serious problems like depression etc.

 

[golfmom]

That's kind of odd. I know it's a sign of morning but all black is usually what these shooters wear.

Friday was red day. School colors are red and black.

 

[golfmom]

What if you stop taking one suddenly? I just wondered if not weaning slowly off one of these drugs can cause serious problems like depression etc.

You know that's exactly what I was thinking too!

 

[philamena]

What if you stop taking one suddenly? I just wondered if not weaning slowly off one of these drugs can cause serious problems like depression etc.

Taximom,
Absolutely. Stopping suddenly can cause all kinds of problems. Especially the Rispardal. Stopping suddenly can cause severe paranoia and the shakes.
Stopping Paxil can cause suicidal thoughts when it's stopped but it takes a few days for that to get out of one's system.

 

[golfmom]

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/antioch/news/796779,g3-NIU-021508-s1.article

"I've never not felt safe at this school," Moon said. "I heard the police got there pretty fast. They did all they could."
.........

"I returned home at 11 p.m. (Thursday night) because it was such a crazy day," Moon said. "I have no idea when to go back, but I have no hesitations on going back."

 

[OneLostGrl]

Associated Press - February 17, 2008 6:44 PM ET


Full article: click here

Comment: I'm beginning to see a pattern. To wit:

• Parents took him to see docs after highschool
• Per friend, he seemed to get worse after going on psychopharms
• Began cutting (which landed him in a MH facility for a year)
• Focus of research paper included hypothesis that SIB was a result of the way institutions implemented their programs
• Went off meds bc they "made him feel like a zombie"
• Was on more than Paxil (an SSRI) which includes, among one of its side effects, suicidality and homicidality for 1 in 12 people (see Breggin)

Since Paxil should not cause a "zombie like" effect, I'm wondering if he was also being prescribed an antipsychotic (Zyprexa or Risperdal), in which case, he would also be taking Cogenten. Among the side effects for antipsychotics, is a "zombie like" feeling. From what I've seen, psychiatrists seem to have a nasty habit of prescribing these to people who aren't exp psychotic symptomology. Also, if reports are to be believed, he had been on psychopharms for close to a decade, and studies do show that extended use of some psychopharms are contraindicated.

Anyway, just my 2cents

The reference to feeling like a zombie while on Psych meds can be refering to more than one thing.

Yeah, you have your typical "Thorazine shuffle" type of zombie, dosed up pretty high on Anti-Psychotics but also, Anti-depressants can flatten people, leaving them at a certain level of feeling and not allowing them to have spikes in their emotions, the ability to feel sad or happy- they just feel "there". Many of the people who get that feeling refer to it as zombie-like.

Also regarding Anti-psychotics, although they are not yet approved for this use, it has been found that they can help control all kinds of things such as aggression, irritability and rage. It can also help with excessive worry and obsessive thoughts. We have also come to know that Anti-Psychotics are used more and more these days as mood stabalizers, that they can end a manic episode in Bipolar disorder.

Anti-psychotics are not just for psychosis and people that are on it for reasons other than psychosis take it at a much lower dose, lowering the possibility of side effects and negative symptoms, including drowsiness!

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Taximom,
Absolutely. Stopping suddenly can cause all kinds of problems. Especially the Rispardal. Stopping suddenly can cause severe paranoia and the shakes.
Stopping Paxil can cause suicidal thoughts when it's stopped but it takes a few days for that to get out of one's system.

I recently stopped taking my meds for depression and have not had the inclination to kill anyone. i stopped for a week because I just didn't want to take them anymore. I think this guy must've been bi-polar and had other problems ... maybe schizophrenia.
My worst side effect was massive headaches and nausea.

His problems must've been something deeper. Depressed people kill themselves, not others.

 

[philamena]

I recently stopped taking my meds for depression and have not had the inclination to kill anyone. i stopped for a week because I just didn't want to take them anymore. I think this guy must've been bi-polar and had other problems ... maybe schizophrenia.
My worst side effect was massive headaches and nausea.

His problems must've been something deeper. Depressed people kill themselves, not others.

I agree with you PFM,
The shooters problems were deep.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I recently stopped taking my meds for depression and have not had the inclination to kill anyone. i stopped for a week because I just didn't want to take them anymore. I think this guy must've been bi-polar and had other problems ... maybe schizophrenia.
My worst side effect was massive headaches and nausea.

His problems must've been something deeper. Depressed people kill themselves, not others.

I agree this guy must have had some pretty serious issues! But I have to say, like depressed people, people with Bipolar kill themselves, not others too!

Over the years I have stopped taking probably 20 different psych meds and have never killed anyone, nor did I ever think of murder as an option, even while Psychotic. The best way that I can explain my experiences with Psychosis is comparing it with being on LSD (yeah yeah, so I wasn't an innocent when I was a teenager and know what LSD is like. LOL).

You know your messed up, your thoughts, the things you are seeing and hearing are bizzare. Because of the amount of control the drug has over your mind, it is not uncommon for a person to get to a point where they loose control, forgetting that it isn't them or their mind doing this but the drug. This is where things can go wrong, and become frightening.. when a person can start having a "bad trip". They have allowed themselves to forget that what is happening isn't real and because of that things start spinning out of their control and it then becomes real- very real!

I don't know if I just never got to a "Yates" level of Psychosis or if I was just better able to keep a lid on it because I knew I was crazy and reminded myself that nothing I heard or saw was real. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I didn't ever respond to or converse with the voices, I did- I just didn't believe any of the crap they were trying to convince me of.

 

[shadowraiths]

Reports indicate he was on a single medication (prozac). The half-life of prozac is long, so, withdrawal from that particular psychopharm is generally, nil. That is, outside of original symptoms returning (i.e., depression, anxiety, ocd, etcetera). In other words, if prozac was indeed the only psychopharm that he was taking, suddenly stopping that med would not predicate homicidal ideation/aggressive behavior. At least, not from the withdrawal aspect.

When I first heard about his 1 year stint in the hospital, along with the timing, I had wondered if he had been dx'd with some form of schizophrenia. Esp since schizophrenia tends to present during the late teens to early twenties. Schizophrenia is however a chronic mental illness. And, if reports are to be believed (since he denied having a mental illness), there should also have been other hospitalizations, or at the very least multiple bouts of noticeably erratic behavior.

Later reports indicated that his parents began sending him to docs as early as his jr high years—due to, from his childhood friend's claims, interest in white supremacy & Satanism. Said friend also stated that he seemed to get worse after he was taking meds.

Bc of this, I wondered if he was the 1 in 12 that had experienced some of the more severe SSRI contraindications (i.e., SIB, para or full blown mania, increased aggression, suicidality/homicidality, organic psychosis). And, if his treaters mistook said symptomology for psychosis, hence prescribing an anti-psychotic (which would then mask the 1 in 12 SSRI negative side effect). In this scenario,it would not be ceasing prozac intake that could result in the violent outcome, rather going off the anti-psychotic. For that would no longer hold the 1 in 12 negative side effects of the SSRI in abeyance.

Btw, and as an aside, the 1 in 12 bit is important. Bc, even if he were taking an anti-psychotic, that still does not mean he was necessarily the 1 in 12 that exp SSRI toxicity. It would take a review of his medical/mental health history to even remotely draw such a conclusion. And even then, the conclusion would be based upon probability as opposed to fact.

As for this case and the above proposed scenario? If he was indeed only on prozac, then that scenario isn't a viable consideration. And, from my understanding, that is indeed the case.

As for docs prescribing psychopharms for disorders outside of those approved by the FDA? Yes, I am aware they do that all the time. I personally, think it is a dangerous practice, but that is just me.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Reports indicate he was on a single medication (prozac). The half-life of prozac is long, so, withdrawal from that particular psychopharm is generally, nil. That is, outside of original symptoms returning (i.e., depression, anxiety, ocd, etcetera). In other words, if prozac was indeed the only psychopharm that he was taking, suddenly stopping that med would not predicate homicidal ideation/aggressive behavior. At least, not from the withdrawal aspect.

When I first heard about his 1 year stint in the hospital, along with the timing, I had wondered if he had been dx'd with some form of schizophrenia. Esp since schizophrenia tends to present during the late teens to early twenties. Schizophrenia is however a chronic mental illness. And, if reports are to be believed (since he denied having a mental illness), there should also have been other hospitalizations, or at the very least multiple bouts of noticeably erratic behavior.

Later reports indicated that his parents began sending him to docs as early as his jr high years—due to, from his childhood friend's claims, interest in white supremacy & Satanism. Said friend also stated that he seemed to get worse after he was taking meds.

Bc of this, I wondered if he was the 1 in 12 that had experienced some of the more severe SSRI contraindications (i.e., SIB, para or full blown mania, increased aggression, suicidality/homicidality, organic psychosis). And, if his treaters mistook said symptomology for psychosis, hence prescribing an anti-psychotic (which would then mask the 1 in 12 SSRI negative side effect). In this scenario,it would not be ceasing prozac intake that could result in the violent outcome, rather going off the anti-psychotic. For that would no longer hold the 1 in 12 negative side effects of the SSRI in abeyance.

Btw, and as an aside, the 1 in 12 bit is important. Bc, even if he were taking an anti-psychotic, that still does not mean he was necessarily the 1 in 12 that exp SSRI toxicity. It would take a review of his medical/mental health history to even remotely draw such a conclusion. And even then, the conclusion would be based upon probability as opposed to fact.

As for this case and the above proposed scenario? If he was indeed only on prozac, then that scenario isn't a viable consideration. And, from my understanding, that is indeed the case.

As for docs prescribing psychopharms for disorders outside of those approved by the FDA? Yes, I am aware they do that all the time. I personally, think it is a dangerous practice, but that is just me.

Huh- wow, only on Prozac. I wonder what happened, what the heck went wrong in this guys head then. I guess we will never know!

I understand and respect your opinion. Though, I personally thank G0d for it otherwise I would not be alive today.

 

[SLP]

The reference to feeling like a zombie while on Psych meds can be refering to more than one thing.

Yeah, you have your typical "Thorazine shuffle" type of zombie, dosed up pretty high on Anti-Psychotics but also, Anti-depressants can flatten people, leaving them at a certain level of feeling and not allowing them to have spikes in their emotions, the ability to feel sad or happy- they just feel "there". Many of the people who get that feeling refer to it as zombie-like.

Also regarding Anti-psychotics, although they are not yet approved for this use, it has been found that they can help control all kinds of things such as aggression, irritability and rage. It can also help with excessive worry and obsessive thoughts. We have also come to know that Anti-Psychotics are used more and more these days as mood stabalizers, that they can end a manic episode in Bipolar disorder.

Anti-psychotics are not just for psychosis and people that are on it for reasons other than psychosis take it at a much lower dose, lowering the possibility of side effects and negative symptoms, including drowsiness!

Yes, Risperdal is also used to treat people with autism and ADHD. I know some children in elementary school that take a low dose of Risperdal along with their ADHD medication and their only diagnosis is ADHD.

 

[shadowraiths]

Huh- wow, only on Prozac. I wonder what happened, what the heck went wrong in this guys head then. I guess we will never know!

I understand and respect your opinion. Though, I personally thank G0d for it otherwise I would not be alive today.

I am admittedly skeptical that he was on "just prozac." However, unless the autopsy reveals otherwise (i.e., other prescription meds, illegal substances, etcetera), that may turn out being the case.

As for my opinion regarding prescriptions? I am sure that you are not the only one who has been helped. And yes, I do believe that there are times when it is warranted. I am simply leary that our society (specifically, prescribing docs) tend to be just a tad too quick when it comes to handing out meds, so to speak. Imho, everything in moderation, applies here. And, from what I've seen, moderation has generally not been the practice.

 

[Native New Yorker]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-niu_investigation_webfeb20,0,2846139.story

maybe they should also bring the girlfriend ( a future social worker)in for some questioning...this sounds as if there is more to this story than first meets the eye.

 

[SuziQ]

The godfather of Steven Kazmierczak is talking about the Northern Illinois University gunman's behavior in the days before the shooting rampage. (more at link)

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5967935

 

[Native New Yorker]

Yes, it sounds as if he wanted gun info from his godfather, but clearly misled him as to his intentions.
I am really interested in what the girlfriend knew. And how could she have not noticed his new and horrific tattoos? I just wonder if she knew more than she is admitting to...sounds like the police wonder as well.....

 

[chiperoni]

The godfather of Steven Kazmierczak is talking about the Northern Illinois University gunman's behavior in the days before the shooting rampage. (more at link)

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5967935

Tnx SuziQ for the link. It's just another glimpse into Steven's mindset. I wonder why he was so anxious to touch bases with his godfather. Apparently it was a big deal for him when they lost contact.. It's weird how Steven said he broke up with his girlfriend. I wish he did buy a fishing rod but obviously he was loading up on guns. Steven had a lot of secrets. Hopefully, now, there will be some review on gun licensing and an effective way of cross checking for the buyer's mental health history. It certainly is worth the effort it it could prevent another tragedy.