IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #1

[khaki]

I appreciate all theories on this crime but to me this just doesn't seem like suicide. Back-up did arrive quickly, but to me, enough time passed before the massive search got underway for the suspects to get away, disappear or blend in to the fabric of the area.

 

[night train]

I haven't really considered the possibility of suicide to be very likely from the beginning. That is probably due to all of the positivity surrounding him in the community, his family, etc. Just no outward signs leading to that consideration for me.

A week plus since and some clues and evidence are out there now. They are few, but are more than was known on the morning of Sept. 1. I guess the coroner has registered an educated opinion on suicide already by not ruling it out (although nothing has really been ruled out, has it?). Again, I've heard little outward talk of suicide in the community, other than john3293's recent post here. Doesn't mean it isn't happening on the down-low.

Setting aside anything that isn't physical evidence (ie; Joe's radio report, suspect descriptions, etc.) and looking at what we know now (of the body, gun, gunshots, etc.), could suicide be possible and/or likely?

For the Dr.Rudd to be completely objective and technically accurate with what he's supposedly got to work with at the moment....pretty much everything's got to be on the table.

I really don't believe it was suicide but I wouldn't bet the farm on anything at this point.

As I said a couple of days ago,I used to own a home a half mile from the location where Lt.Joe died.It's Fox Lake folks....Lots of water,trees,alcohol,drugs and loose morals.The easiest place in Lake County to disappear into the woodwork.

Back up arrived quickly and discovered Lt.Gliniewicz but that that doesn't form a perimeter or contain anything at first.

You give me a few minutes to flee in that area with that vague description and I'm long gone.

 

[browncat]

Lurker here too from the outskirts of Fox Lake. I too wonder if it would even be released it is indeed suicide. I completely agree with everything you said. You would think they would be checking his computer.

 

[looking4OPH]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Lake-County-Coroner-Breaks-Silence-on-Fox-Lake-Officers-Shooting-326100651.html

Something struck me odd in this Chicago MSM report on the coroner's comments today. It has been eight days since the death. The body was processed for the funeral and came and went through the visitation, funeral, procession, and burial. Right?

At 1:45 in the report above, the coroner said they are going to look for gunshot residue on the clothing, a test they still haven't been able to perform. Wait, what?

Maybe I've watched too many CSI shows, but.... Wouldn't the death investigation have trumped and come before any of the funeral processing? And shouldn't it have collected any of that kind of evidence and/or processed it and made determinations by day eight? And aren't there dozens of municipal, township, county, state, and federal agencies involved? a number of which have lots of very sophisticated crime evidence processing technology?

Tell me I'm not alone on this.

 

[looking4OPH]

You give me a few minutes to flee in that area with that vague description and I'm long gone.

Agreed. After about hour 8, I knew inside that if there were others involved, they were well into the wind (or settled back into hiding in-place).

 

[bluesneakers]

If suicide, why call for back up? They already knew where he was so it wasn't to get them there. When he didn't check back in they would've found him. I'm not saying it isn't suicide but I'm not convinced it was either.

Maybe to ensure when he would be found and who would find him. This way his family would know right away and there's no chance a child (or whoever) might stumble upon his body. Or he might not have wanted anyone to know it was a suicide so he called it in to give himself a cover story.

JMO, and I'm not sure it was a suicide either. I hope not.

 

[john3293]

Agreed. After about hour 8, I knew inside that if there were others involved, they were well into the wind (or settled back into hiding in-place).

Let's be honest....Fox Lake on a 90 degree day isn't the Everglades or mountains or Siberia. I disagree, they would have been caught or something would have been said by someone.....they would have slipped up, especially if Joe just happened to come up on them when they weren't expecting it. If they are on the run, these people are missing from some part of life (friends, family, etc) who would have said something by now. If they went back to business as usual hoping no one would find out, come on....someone would have said something.

It makes sense....if he didn't want anyone to know....I can understand him making it look like a homicide (again, given the current state of things in the country). Also, look at insurance policies/pensions....aren't those void if death is due to suicide?

 

[khaki]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Lake-County-Coroner-Breaks-Silence-on-Fox-Lake-Officers-Shooting-326100651.html

Something struck me odd in this Chicago MSM report on the coroner's comments today. It has been eight days since the death. The body was processed for the funeral and came and went through the visitation, funeral, procession, and burial. Right?

At 1:45 in the report above, the coroner said they are going to look for gunshot residue on the clothing, a test they still haven't been able to perform. Wait, what?

Maybe I've watched too many CSI shows, but.... Wouldn't the death investigation have trumped and come before any of the funeral processing? And shouldn't it have collected any of that kind of evidence and/or processed it and made determinations by day eight? And aren't there dozens of municipal, township, county, state, and federal agencies involved? a number of which have lots of very sophisticated crime evidence processing technology?

Tell me I'm not alone on this.

Great catch! But, hopefully all the necessary testing on Lt G's remains was done and the clothing and other personal items were saved and preserved for continued testing and analysis??

 

[Solitaryone]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Lake-County-Coroner-Breaks-Silence-on-Fox-Lake-Officers-Shooting-326100651.html

Something struck me odd in this Chicago MSM report on the coroner's comments today. It has been eight days since the death. The body was processed for the funeral and came and went through the visitation, funeral, procession, and burial. Right?

At 1:45 in the report above, the coroner said they are going to look for gunshot residue on the clothing, a test they still haven't been able to perform. Wait, what?

Maybe I've watched too many CSI shows, but.... Wouldn't the death investigation have trumped and come before any of the funeral processing? And shouldn't it have collected any of that kind of evidence and/or processed it and made determinations by day eight? And aren't there dozens of municipal, township, county, state, and federal agencies involved? a number of which have lots of very sophisticated crime evidence processing technology?

Tell me I'm not alone on this.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...-on-Fox-Lake-Officers-Shooting-326100651.html


Lake County Coroner Waiting on Evidence in Fox Lake Officer's Shooting
Lake County Coroner Thomas Rudd said he needs more information from police, before he agrees to sign off on how the officer died


"There is much about the crime scene that has never been officially released. Rudd said he would not reveal officially how many times the officer had been shot, only that he died from a “single devastating gunshot wound,” and that he has not determined officially whether the officer was even shot at close range or from a distance.

For now, he said, he has to keep an open mind, but the case is still a murder investigation.

“Based on what is coming from law enforcement agencies, we are pursuing it as if it is a homicide,” he said. “If we are told later that they don’t have evidence of a homicide, then we have to consider the other manners of death, which could be suicide or accident.”

Video and more at link.

You're definitely not alone on this!
It's very strange that gunshot residue testing on the clothing hasn't been performed yet. WHY weren't they able to perform that test yet? Why han't the ME "officially" determined whether Lt.Gliniewicz was shot at close range or from a distance? What is the ME's unofficial determination? This is all very bizarre...

 

[khaki]

Officer's radio call described one of the three youths as Black. Back-up arrived fast; public warnings were issued immed'ly; manhunt got going quickly, etc. I may have missed posts or MSM but do not recall reports of a Black youth being sighted.

From population demographics below, imo seems the public or LE or both would notice a young Black male, as Fox Lake Black pop. is so low, if there had been 3 youths around town, as described.
Could be all wrong, seems in line w the posts questioning the officer's call.


________________________________________________________________
http://www.city-data.com/city/Fox-Lake-Illinois.html#ixzz3lIOWYcBW
White alone................ 87.8%....928
Hispanic..................... 8.9%......940
Two or more races........1.2%..... 127
Black alone .................0.9% ..... 96
Asian alone .................
American Indian alone...
Other race alone..........
Native Hawaiian and ....

Early on I looked at the demographics too, but these numbers don't account for the demographics of those who may not live in the town, but are employed in the town. Or make deliveries in the area.

 

[looking4OPH]

Anyone familiar with the likelihood of suicide victims to leave a suicide note? If suicide, no public mention of it yet, although I suppose family could keep it to themselves if not (yet) questioned by LE. Local news report said that questioning will happen in the next few days.

Yeah, the ramifications to insurance, PD honors, 100 Club assistance, local fundraisers by Wendy's/McHenry Drive-In, etc., etc. would certainly be messy.

Really don't want it to go that way, although in some ways that may be less traumatic to the community (being just his own demons) than something related to farther reaching politics/internal investigation. Done thinking through this possibility.

 

[john3293]

Well....it brings up the same scenario, though. If he leaves a note....it's pretty obvious it was suicide and there goes insurance, pensions, etc. There would have been only one way to do it...and it was to tell no one and leave no evidence.

Also, I get the family has to grieve.....but if there were potentially suspects on the loose on a case where they have no leads, don't you think they would make it a point to contact the family right away to see what info can be gathered ?

 

[Montjoy]

Anyone familiar with the likelihood of suicide victims to leave a suicide note?

I think it's less than 30% -- and it's also possible (not speculating on likelihood) in this case that there was a note, but that it was withheld or destroyed.

 

[bluesneakers]

Anyone familiar with the likelihood of suicide victims to leave a suicide note? If suicide, no public mention of it yet, although I suppose family could keep it to themselves if not (yet) questioned by LE. Local news report said that questioning will happen in the next few days.

Yeah, the ramifications to insurance, PD honors, 100 Club assistance, local fundraisers by Wendy's/McHenry Drive-In, etc., etc. would certainly be messy.

Really don't want it to go that way, although in some ways that may be less traumatic to the community (being just his own demons) than something related to farther reaching politics/internal investigation. Done thinking through this possibility.

I've read it's low, like 20 - 30% of people who commit suicide leave notes.

 

[looking4OPH]

Lt. Gliniewicz's son speaks about his family's loss
http://abc7chicago.com/news/lt-gliniewiczs-son-speaks-about-his-familys-loss-/976618/

 

[Cubby]

If suicide, why call for back up? They already knew where he was so it wasn't to get them there. When he didn't check back in they would've found him. I'm not saying it isn't suicide but I'm not convinced it was either.

BBM. To make it look like a homicide instead of a suicide. Perhaps he wanted to be found right away and that was the reason for the second radio call? I could see someone trying to make a suicide appear as a homicide if they wanted to spare their family and friends of the additional grief of knowing someone took their own life purposely.

I say that in general because all options are still on the table.

 

[fraudqueen]

I'm not saying it was a suicide, just wanted to point something out. If an officer is killed in the line of duty, the family normally receives a large sum of money from state funds, at least they do in my state. Plus, the children's college is paid for in full.

 

[Montjoy]

Was there ever any mention of the officer having defensive wounds? I cannot imagine an officer surrendering his sidearm without a desperate fight, and so I cannot imagine it being taken without the officer having defensive wounds of some sort.

 

[Cubby]

Lurker here too from the outskirts of Fox Lake. I too wonder if it would even be released it is indeed suicide. I completely agree with everything you said. You would think they would be checking his computer.

Thank you for coming out of lurkdom browncat. :welcome:

 

[Ragamuffin]

Has anyone read Stuart Wood's novel "Chiefs"? Small towns often harbor secrets,