IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[TheDuchess]

I don't know about some of you guys, but I am really heavy hearted today thinking about this case. Just seeing some of his videos and seeing his family makes me feel as though I almost know him. It is extremely clear that he was a "good guy." He had a passion for his job, his family, his country and you can see that it was contagious. Just thinking about him wanting to fake his own murder to care for his family makes me think of many uncomfortable thoughts, mixed between empathy and outrage. How can his family possibly process this possibility? How can his colleagues, his friends, and the rest of the community (not to mention the world-as this is an international story) possibly come to terms with something like this?

I really hope I am wrong. I really hope that it turns out to be that it was a murder for the sake of his family and that they catch the perpetrators. If it turns out not to be the case. Oh man.

 

[leah]

I don't know about some of you guys, but I am really heavy hearted today thinking about this case. Just seeing some of his videos and seeing his family makes me feel as though I almost know him. It is extremely clear that he was a "good guy." He had a passion for his job, his family, his country and you can see that it was contagious. Just thinking about him wanting to fake his own murder to care for his family makes me think of many uncomfortable thoughts, mixed between empathy and outrage. How can his family possibly process this possibility? How can his colleagues, his friends, and the rest of the community (not to mention the world-as this is an international story) possibly come to terms with something like this?

I really hope I am wrong. I really hope that it turns out to be that it was a murder for the sake of his family and that they catch the perpetrators. If it turns out not to be the case. Oh man.

I hear you, I feel the same. He seemed happy on his facebook, but I don't go by that. People don't really know who I am if they are friends with me on facebook. I'm really lost with this, if he did take his own life, there must have been some signs that his family/friends might have noticed. But then some people hide their feelings very well.

 

[Big Bread]

So he shoots himself twice with his own gun? You don't have to fake a suicide by making it look like murder. Accidents are much much simpler. How do you know that he thought he could pull this off? He sure didn't fool you or that ex cop did he?

If I were Gliniewicz and I wanted to take my own life, I wouln't make my suicide look like an accident. I would make it look like a homicide while I'm on duty. That's so my family can receive the lump sum fallen officer benefit for $333,604.00. An addition, my funeral and my sons' college will be paid for; something that an accident won't do.

In his FB, he brings up his financial situation. From his comments about not being able to afford something, this gives me a strong indication that their financial situation is not good. Add to the fact that he's getting close to retirement, with 20+ years on their mortgage, 3 sons that are college aged, and 1 in high school, a wife that is self-employed?, and increased health insurance concerns. I'm starting to lean on the idea that his financial situation would be the strongest motivator in taking his own life. JMO. I'm going to investigate this theory further.

 

[vestigare]

AND now I need to know two things: WHO is battaglia??? He is not just a random crazy who happens to be retired LEO and is calling and threatening people. I don't for one second believe anything coming from lake county that said he's unrelated to the case. He is somehow related to something.

And: is lake county/fox lake self-insured? In the sense of providing insurance and benefits to government employees of either municipality. Anyone?

(I'm on a roll and googling everything)




Sent from my not so humble opinion.

Illinois death benefits according to the offcer down memorial page.
https://www.odmp.org/benefits/state?state=Illinois
$333,000 frpm federal PSOB
$320,000 from The state

I know of very few PDs that are self insured as it is very expensive. Most are part of the charter combined with city or state. It is easy to know which by how lawsuits are paid out.

 

[vestigare]

Wow! That's great that they won! My husbands department tacks on .5 hour on each end of the shift for travel time and that is officially considered on duty. Because if they aren't extremely specific about that then it's up for the insurer to fight. So sad that LEOs and their families have to go through denial of benefits and litigation after an already traumatic event. [emoji17]


Sent from my not so humble opinion.

No offense but everyone has to fight with insurance to pay out after a traumatic event. It is an insurers job to weed out false claims or eventually all our rates go up and the insurer files bankruptsy and pays no one. If an insurer didn't like the idea of rhe half hour before or after they would just put a clause in the contract saying it didn't apply. In most cases it isn't worth the fight if the dept is going to claim duty hours.

 

[m00c0w]

If I were Gliniewicz and I wanted to take my own life, I wouln't make my suicide look like an accident. I would make it look like a homicide while I'm on duty. That's so my family can receive the lump sum fallen officer benefit for $333,604.00. An addition, my funeral and my sons' college will be paid for; something that an accident won't do.

In his FB, he brings up his financial situation. From his comments about not being able to afford something, this gives me a strong indication that their financial situation is not good. Add to the fact that he's getting close to retirement, with 20+ years on their mortgage, 3 sons that are college aged, and 1 in high school, a wife that is self-employed?, and increased health insurance concerns. I'm starting to lean on the idea that his financial situation would be the strongest motivator in taking his own life. JMO. I'm going to investigate this theory further.

Surely, a seasoned veteran of the PD who has made it up to the position of a lieutenant and was applying for a position as the chief of police would understand how hard it would be to make a suicide with a firearm look like a murder... If he has GSR all over himself, if there is the stippling around the wounds because the firearm was fired too close, if the rounds matched his gun's ballistics that was found in his hand or extremely near his person, and if the trajectory indicated it was self-inflicted, it would be all over.

There are easier ways to get killed "in the line of duty" than concocting this elaborate murder story that likely would/should be very easy to rule a suicide if that is really the case.

There are a lot of troubling things with the case, to just assume it was a suicide. Such as him having been shot in the vest, and then from a trajectory that allowed the round to enter the vest. This implies that he was shot in the abdomen and probably fell, and was then shot again, only this time it went between the vest and his body. Initial officers on scene heard the final gunshot, so it stands to reason that whoever was there (supposing it was a murder), would have focused on escaping without getting killed by responding officers at that point. Then you have DNA found at the scene that implies there were, in fact, other people there. Along with casings being found a distance from the body.

If you go by occam's razor, it's much more likely that the cop was ambushed, especially with the ambushes that are taking place all over, now. It seems less likely that a police lieutenant on the verge of retirement thinks of this elaborate fake-murder-suicide plot, in which he goes out of his way to this swampy area, calls for backup, shoots himself in the vest once, walks some more, and then shoots himself in a way that the round avoids the vest... While also ditching his pepper spray for some reason, and hoping that officers don't get there before his plan is complete, or that no one else is around to see anything...

JMO

 

[TheDuchess]

Surely, a seasoned veteran of the PD who has made it up to the position of a lieutenant and was applying for a position as the chief of police would understand how hard it would be to make a suicide with a firearm look like a murder... If he has GSR all over himself, if there is the stippling around the wounds because the firearm was fired too close, if the rounds matched his gun's ballistics that was found in his hand or extremely near his person, and if the trajectory indicated it was self-inflicted, it would be all over.

There are easier ways to get killed "in the line of duty" than concocting this elaborate murder story that likely would/should be very easy to rule a suicide if that is really the case.

There are a lot of troubling things with the case, to just assume it was a suicide. Such as him having been shot in the vest, and then from a trajectory that allowed the round to enter the vest. This implies that he was shot in the abdomen and probably fell, and was then shot again, only this time it went between the vest and his body. Initial officers on scene heard the final gunshot, so it stands to reason that whoever was there (supposing it was a murder), would have focused on escaping without getting killed by responding officers at that point. Then you have DNA found at the scene that implies there were, in fact, other people there. Along with casings being found a distance from the body.

If you go by occam's razor, it's much more likely that the cop was ambushed, especially with the ambushes that are taking place all over, now. It seems less likely that a police lieutenant on the verge of retirement thinks of this elaborate fake-murder-suicide plot, in which he goes out of his way to this swampy area, calls for backup, shoots himself in the vest once, walks some more, and then shoots himself in a way that the round avoids the vest... While also ditching his pepper spray for some reason, and hoping that officers don't get there before his plan is complete, or that no one else is around to see anything...

JMO

I've been trying to think of a better way to do it, but not sure how. I think this would have been about as good as it gets. However, I am wondering if perhaps he didn't factor in the intense coverage this ended up getting. I wonder if perhaps he may have not thought that his death would have become an international story and get so much media exposure, asking questions, etc... I mean, this story has truly taken on a life of its own.

 

[steelman]

You know, I was thinking to myself last night, "I sure hope the ex-cop that just got arrested for making those phone calls didn't get all his ideas from that Websleuths thread."

I remember back when the suicide theory was first introduced in this thread, my first thoughts towards the poster was, "You know, maybe you need to climb back into the box"...............................


I still think it went down just like it was initially reported. Three guys were milling around back there, Gliniewicz saw them on the wrong side of that gate and decided to walk back there himself and investigate it. At some point he was ambushed either by one of them or all three of them.

I'm at a loss to explain why that scenario seems to be so impossible for some people to believe. I've seen videos on YouTube where officers were attacked by two or three people in broad daylight, sometimes on the side of a highway, sometimes not. Desperate people do desperate things, angry people do angry things.

 

[vestigare]

M00c0w,

You are assuming he was particulary intelligent for that he thought the people who would be doing the investigation were intelligent or honest.

He may have assumed his coworkers combined with the current media sensationalism regarding slain cops that they would cover up any suicide if they got far enough to even question it.

The gun powder stippling could be overcome by shooting into the distance a number of times, shooting his vest once while not wearing it and before he got to the scene, etc...

Again assuming he aactually thought this out very far beyond assuming his thin blue line coworkers would do him a solid...

 

[TheDuchess]

I have a question about this, as a lot has been said about the suspects disappearing into thin air. The scent dogs couldn't pick up anything, but what exactly are they looking for? I had always thought that they needed something to compare to, like an item of clothing, etc... Can they just be ordered to look for someone? I would imagine it would be tricky for the dog considering how many people were milling about the area. Also, I would like to know where and when they spotted the 3 initial persons of interest in the videos and if Joe could have actually seen them or not.

Also, do we know if he would have needed to scale that fence to get to the other side? The fence was closed right? None of this makes a whole lot of sense, does it?

 

[steelman]

I have a question about this, as a lot has been said about the suspects disappearing into thin air. The scent dogs couldn't pick up anything, but what exactly are they looking for? I had always thought that they needed something to compare to, like an item of clothing, etc... Can they just be ordered to look for someone? I would imagine it would be tricky for the dog considering how many people were milling about the area. Also, I would like to know where and when they spotted the 3 initial persons of interest in the videos and if Joe could have actually seen them or not.

Also, do we know if he would have needed to scale that fence to get to the other side? The fence was closed right? None of this makes a whole lot of sense, does it?

Scent dogs are an urban myth. They are simply expensive pets for law enforcement to haul around. I've followed 20 or 30 cases on here in just the last year where tracking dogs were utilized with no results. Some time later the person was found deceased dead smack in the middle of the search zone.

The latest case I can think of was over in Arizona when a 5 year old boy got lost and apparently walked down a dirt road for over 8 1/2 miles before he succumbed to heat and exhaustion. Tracking dogs didn't find him, people in the back of a pickup did. If the dogs are incapable of tracking a kid walking down a dirt road, then what good are they ? They had dozens of dogs on that scene, and yet none of them followed his scent down that dirt road.

Also, this kid walked over 8 miles......did none of the searches find footprints or tracks indicating which way he walked ? Apparently not.

 

[Japple]

Hello,
Just found this sight looking for info on this case. Thought I'd share some info since I'm a local who is somewhat familiar with the area.
If LT was on his way to station directly from his home, the logical route would be to travel down Rollins rd towards the station. From Rollins it is quite possible to see someone walking on the concrete plant property, even to the far side to the south west where the entrance is. It could be that he first had a visual from Rollins and then drove around to Honing where the gate is before he decided to call it in. In the scanner audio I heard, he mentioned that the plant was off Rollins, IIRC, his last word to dispatch was "Rollins". There is also a gated entrance off Rollins. The gate is closed, but I do not believe it has a latch or lock. However, it would be a very rough crossing over the tracks. The platforms have been removed, so one would have to drive over the full height of the rails.

The African American population in fox lake is very low. According to Wikipedia 2000 census, less than 1%. I don't think it's changed much since then. Seeing 2 white, 1 black, as the officer stated, could be considered unusual. Although anyone to be seen in this area would also be considered unusual. I'm not trying to offend anyone. It's just that this area is predominately white.

Fox Lake has it's share of drug issues, but no more than most other communities in Lake County. I've heard comments from other articles saying F.L. is heroin capital of Northern IL. I do not believe this to be anywhere near accurate.


The swamp that this is centered on isn't your typical swamp like the Florida everglades. It's more like a seasonal wetlands. The majority of the area would be dry this time of year. Even some of the ponds close by could be mostly empty or dried up. I'm not 100% familiar with this exact "swamp" but I am very familiar with a few of the many in the area. I live right next to one.

Hope some of this helps
Japple

 

[Chuz Life]

I have a question about this, as a lot has been said about the suspects disappearing into thin air. The scent dogs couldn't pick up anything, but what exactly are they looking for? I had always thought that they needed something to compare to, like an item of clothing, etc... Can they just be ordered to look for someone?

Again, it depends on the dog and their training. For instance, some dogs are especially trained to 'hit' on the smell of gun powder. If a suspect did grab the Lt's weapon and then shot him with his own gun, a dog trained to detect that residue would have little problem following the trail to a hiding suspect.

I've watched shows where dogs have located spent shell casings that were out in the weather for several days.

There is a reason this manhunt has deescalated as quickly as it has.

 

[Big Bread]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/544/article/p2p-84430226/


These are exerpts from the above article.


Publicly, the spokesman for the investigation, Detective Christopher Covelli of the Lake County sheriff's office, repeated Monday that authorities are looking at "every theory" but that they are "still pursuing this as a homicide."


When asked what evidence police have that suggests that the shooting was a homicide, Covelli said, "we have the call that was made (by Gliniewicz) and the unknown DNA donor at the scene."


JMO, this does not sound like significant evidence to me.

 

[steelman]

Hello,
Just found this sight looking for info on this case. Thought I'd share some info since I'm a local who is somewhat familiar with the area.
If LT was on his way to station directly from his home, the logical route would be to travel down Rollins rd towards the station. From Rollins it is quite possible to see someone walking on the concrete plant property, even to the far side to the south west where the entrance is. It could be that he first had a visual from Rollins and then drove around to Honing where the gate is before he decided to call it in. In the scanner audio I heard, he mentioned that the plant was off Rollins, IIRC, his last word to dispatch was "Rollins". There is also a gated entrance off Rollins. The gate is closed, but I do not believe it has a latch or lock. However, it would be a very rough crossing over the tracks. The platforms have been removed, so one would have to drive over the full height of the rails.



The swamp that this is centered on isn't your typical swamp like the Florida everglades. It's more like a seasonal wetlands. The majority of the area would be dry this time of year. Even some of the ponds close by could be mostly empty or dried up. I'm not 100% familiar with this exact "swamp" but I am very familiar with a few of the many in the area. I live right next to one.

Hope some of this helps
Japple

<snipped for length>


Glad you signed on. Do me a favor, take a look at this map and tell me how many different ways someone could get to the location via vehicle to where the officer was found shot.

I've counted at least 4, including the open lot behind Precision Chrome, driving over the tracks at Rollins, the dirt road behind the water treatment plant, and by cutting through the field behind Open Arc computers.
Any other trails or roads there now that weren't there when this sat. image was taken a few years ago ?


You can zoom in and out as close as you want to. Left click and drag to move the map on your screen.

Map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kdNsSY53CGeU&usp=sharing

 

[vestigare]

I have a question about this, as a lot has been said about the suspects disappearing into thin air. The scent dogs couldn't pick up anything, but what exactly are they looking for? I had always thought that they needed something to compare to, like an item of clothing, etc... Can they just be ordered to look for someone? I would imagine it would be tricky for the dog considering how many people were milling about the area. Also, I would like to know where and when they spotted the 3 initial persons of interest in the videos and if Joe could have actually seen them or not.

Also, do we know if he would have needed to scale that fence to get to the other side? The fence was closed right? None of this makes a whole lot of sense, does it?

Scent dogs track different things depending on the training.
I know Steelman thinks they are a myth but they can do some amazing things. The problem is the handlers are often badly trained or corrupt especially with drug dogs.....

Dogs that track human skin cells do not need something to compare to. They will pick a scent and follow it around until the end or until the handler determines the line of scent is not worthy of following anymore. Naturally these lines might cross all over. People who assume dogs can't track over water don't understand the dogs are smelling the air many times and can pick up the scent on the other side of the body of water if lost. Cadaver dogs can find bodies in water.

Dogs can also be trained to scent ground disturbance whether human, animal, vehicular by the destruction of vegetation or the dust being kicked up.

Dogs can follow scents in cars and boats.

They can be trained to track a particular scent they are told to follow such as the scent of the mud but that is very risky.

They can be trained to find bullets, guns and electronics and I am not sure what sort of dogs they had there that day but probably had several and we haven't heard they followed any significant scent out of the area so I wonder if there was ever anything of any significance to follow...

 

[vestigare]

Scent dogs are an urban myth. They are simply expensive pets for law enforcement to haul around. I've followed 20 or 30 cases on here in just the last year where tracking dogs were utilized with no results. Some time later the person was found deceased dead smack in the middle of the search zone.

The latest case I can think of was over in Arizona when a 5 year old boy got lost and apparently walked down a dirt road for over 8 1/2 miles before he succumbed to heat and exhaustion. Tracking dogs didn't find him, people in the back of a pickup did. If the dogs are incapable of tracking a kid walking down a dirt road, then what good are they ? They had dozens of dogs on that scene, and yet none of them followed his scent down that dirt road.

Also, this kid walked over 8 miles......did none of the searches find footprints or tracks indicating which way he walked ? Apparently not.

I am not familiar with that case but sounds like it could be bad dog handling and police not paying attention to footprints. Most police aren't super trackers and the dog handlers receive far less training than the dogs and then the dogs get the blame.

Personally I don't think local police should have dogs at all. They are too expensive, too specialized and too important. In today's world if you need a K9 unit then you call in a centralized unit. Most cases don't require them but all these local PDs think they need them and end up leaving them in cars to die of heat exhaustion when they aren't misusing them.... I digress.

 

[Big Bread]

You know, I was thinking to myself last night, "I sure hope the ex-cop that just got arrested for making those phone calls didn't get all his ideas from that Websleuths thread."

Maybe he is one of us. Is Joseph A. Battaglia out there anyone?

 

[m00c0w]

M00c0w,

You are assuming he was particulary intelligent for that he thought the people who would be doing the investigation were intelligent or honest.

He may have assumed his coworkers combined with the current media sensationalism regarding slain cops that they would cover up any suicide if they got far enough to even question it.

The gun powder stippling could be overcome by shooting into the distance a number of times, shooting his vest once while not wearing it and before he got to the scene, etc...

Again assuming he aactually thought this out very far beyond assuming his thin blue line coworkers would do him a solid...

I think that assuming this person was at least semi-intelligent is probably a little more reasonable than assuming this "not-so-smart" cop came up with this elaborate suicide plan to make it look like a murder... Instead of doing something way more straightforward like just "losing control" of his car while responding to an emergency, similar to how most police die every year.

And I'm not sure about the veracity of some of your claims. If he took his vest off and shot it, the round would likely penetrate straight through it. Where would he have even done this at, to have been unnoticed, shooting at a bulletproof vest? Wouldn't it be clear from a lack of bruising and tissue injury that this is what happened? The coroner seems fairly certain he was shot in the vest.

Also, how does shooting a gun multiple times "at a distance" have anything to do with eliminating stippling and powder burns? If anything, that seems would cause MORE residue as more and more carbon and gunpowder is being built up in the barrel.

And that still doesn't negate that he'd have GSR all over him/his hands if he was shooting himself from arm's length.

Then you have the question of only two shots being fired, supposedly not from contact range, meaning his arms would have to be outstretched. How do you practically aim a shot like that, ensuring it goes in between your vest and body, to cause a devastating enough wound that wouldn't be recoverable from if your backup arrives in time? Especially after already having shot yourself in the stomach once? That would be a feat in and of itself.

 

[TheDuchess]

Maybe he is one of us. Is Joseph A. Battaglia out there anyone?

Do they have wifi in lockup?