IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[Keefer]

he was moving around as in walking. He had to be tackled

 

[tcer114]

BBM: I totally agree with this logic. As for evidence of suicide, the report from Fox the other day about Lt G being found face down, with his hand in position as if he held a gun, and the shot down the inside of his vest are what made me see suicide as a strong possibility, but I still am not 100% convinced. I also think the scenarios explaining other ways this went down pointing to homicide could also have happened.

Fox news was reporting from an unnamed source close to the investigation but we know anyone can call and make that claim. I don't think much credence should be given to unnamed sources.

 

[vestigare]

I'm curious how much the vest would diffuse the spatter pattern.

I have no idea. Depends on where the wound is I suppose in conjunction to vest coverage. There would splatter pattern on the inside of the vest.

I am also assuming all this was down the vest and not through the vest.

 

[cady]

he was moving around as in walking. He had to be tackled

If that happened to Gliniewicz SURELY there is evidence of his moving and struggling. We shall just have to wait to find out. JMO

 

[Keefer]

So it is possible that Lt. Gliniewicz crawled , was moved or turned over into his final position?

 

[cady]

That information and evidence would be helpful for the coroner to know, as well. JMO

 

[vestigare]

he was moving around as in walking. He had to be tackled

Okay but like I said what drugs was he on? You said you didn't know. Also I can't be sure the shot to the heart actually was clean without the autopsy. Taking the second hand word of someone who saw someone shoot someone in the chest doesn't prove much. Sorry.

There are plenty of cases where people are shot in the heart and continue to attack. In defensive shooting you learn not to think about "kill shots" but to think in shots that will stop the guy before he gets to you. Most of the time that means hitting center mass and hoping the shot hit something that will drop them or with in a few seconds make them pass out. Then you shoot something to make them stop moving like try for a spine or hips.

It takes the average person something like 10-15 seconds to completely bleed out with the heart still beating if there is a significant wound to an artery or vein. If you have no heart beat then you have no blood pressure and thus your brain isn't getting oxygen and can not send signals to your body to do much of anything.

 

[Keefer]

I encourage any and all readers to do some independent research on the effects of wounds caused by modern police ammunition. The only sure type of shot I've come across is when the spinal cord is severed or the brain is damaged enough to short circuit. Other shots are not 100% predictable.

 

[vestigare]

So it is possible that Lt. Gliniewicz crawled , was moved or turned over into his final position?

Anything is possible. But from the description of the body and the assumption I have of the sort of wound he suffered I say it is unlikely he moved at all other than maybe a postmortem twitch. We will have to see what the evidence is.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If this was a suicide. He most likely called or inquired about all of his insurance benefits and made sure that everything was in order. So I would check his latest inquiries on any and all insurance that he planned on leaving behind.

Btw. If he was a female. Wouldnt we be saying that hubby may have set him up.

 

[Keefer]

Okay but like I said what drugs was he on? You said you didn't know. Also I can't be sure the shot to the heart actually was clean without the autopsy. Taking the second hand word of someone who saw someone shoot someone in the chest doesn't prove much. Sorry.

There are plenty of cases where people are shot in the heart and continue to attack. In defensive shooting you learn not to think about "kill shots" but to think in shots that will stop the guy before he gets to you. Most of the time that means hitting center mass and hoping the shot hit something that will drop them or with in a few seconds make them pass out. Then you shoot something to make them stop moving like try for a spine or hips.

It takes the average person something like 10-15 seconds to completely bleed out with the heart still beating if there is a significant wound to an artery or vein. If you have no heart beat then you have no blood pressure and thus your brain isn't getting oxygen and can not send signals to your body to do much of anything.

So, Lt. Glinewicz could have crawled, moved or been moved into his final position based on what you know about this case and your knowledge of people Bleeding out?

 

[vestigare]

I encourage any and all readers to do some independent research on the effects of wounds caused by modern police ammunition. The only sure type of shot I've come across is when the spinal cord is severed or the brain is damaged enough to short circuit. Other shots are not 100% predictable.

Modern police ammunition? Why only that? And we don't even know what ammo he was using it might not have been PD standard issue.
That might be another factor in the suicide theory. His dna might be on the casing and from his gun with this specially loaded ammo?

You are correct, I already said above that you are taught to go for the spine.
In fact most people don't realize the majority of handgun gunshot wounds the person survives.
But fact is that if you have no blood pressure you don't stay conscious long.

 

[vestigare]

So, Lt. Glinewicz could have crawled, moved or been moved into his final position based on what you know about this case and your knowledge of people Bleeding out?

He could have done a lot of things based on what I know of this case.
Again. The forensics will prove if he moved. Without any speculation.
But you don't stay conscious without blood pressure.

 

[vestigare]

If this was a suicide. He most likely called or inquired about all of his insurance benefits and made sure that everything was in order. So I would check his latest inquiries on any and all insurance that he planned on leaving behind.

Btw. If he was a female. Wouldnt we be saying that hubby may have set him up.

Oh well I am not sure we can speculate on that.
I mentioned that yesterday that while I wasn't blaming the wife (because I don't think she had anything to do with this) I didn't see why she should be off limits if there is evidence point to her because she did have the most to gain and in other murder cases the family is often a natural suspect even to LE.

But my post was removed.....

 

[Cubby]

What is the evidence of suicide at this point? What are reasons for suicide that isn't just pure speculation at this point?

Lack of known evidence for a homicide does not create evidence of a suicide.

BBM. MSM. Have you read any of the links?

 

[Keefer]

Unless he was on some sort of amphetamine that helped keep his blood pressure up and allowed him not to feel pain in most cases the loss of blood pressure would instantly render him unconscious.

So, you were mistaken here as far as this being a 100% sure thing?

 

[Tillicum]

Does anyone have a link that tells specifically who the coroner or ME was who went to the scene? I've read it before but can't find one now. Was it Rudd or someone else?

 

[Montjoy]

What is the evidence of suicide at this point? What are reasons for suicide that isn't just pure speculation at this point?

Lack of known evidence for a homicide does not create evidence of a suicide.

You might as well direct this question to LE, as they are investigating his death as a suicide, so they must have some reason for doing so.

 

[Cubby]

I wish it did for me but I have never seen a Coroner demand that LE has a suspect before determining the MOD/COD.

.

Do you have a link to indicate the coroner is demanding LE has a suspect before determining the MOD/COD?

 

[Tillicum]

Oh well I am not sure we can speculate on that.
I mentioned that yesterday that while I wasn't blaming the wife (because I don't think she had anything to do with this) I didn't see why she should be off limits if there is evidence point to her because she did have the most to gain and in other murder cases the family is often a natural suspect even to LE.

But my post was removed.....

I think that falls under "Victim Friendly" in WS TOS http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information