IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[katydid23]

Welcome back! This is true, re: lack of evidence. But then, shouldn't the ruling be undetermined, and let the wife have what is due, minus survivor special benefits until such evidence is produced to make a determination? JMO

I think 'undetermined' is the right way to label this, so far.

 

[vestigare]

BBM
'Not having the evidence' for something does not mean it never happened. There are many murderers walking free for lack of evidence but that does not make them 'innocent.'

Legally the coroner gets to determine the evidence or a court does in criminal cases. Innocence is presumed.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

IMO this whole sham is disrespectful of those truly killed in the line of duty.

Very much so! Part of why I had such a hard time accepting the idea that it could have been suicide.

Now it all just seems so shady, full of obfuscation and zero transparency.


Sent from my not so humble opinion.

 

[katydid23]

Legally the coroner gets to determine the evidence or a court does in criminal cases. Innocence is presumed.

Innocence is 'presumed' but it does not mean they ARE actually innocent.

 

[vestigare]

I think 'undetermined' is the right way to label this, so far.

No, it doesn't work that way.
If he was shot at close range, has GSR on his hands, it was his gun and there is no other evidence besides his call that there could have been another person there then the evidence is not inconclusive and it is not undetermined.

 

[vestigare]

Innocence is 'presumed' but it does not mean they ARE actually innocent.

So. What are you gonna do? Lynch mob? We are a country of laws.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

No, it doesn't work that way.
If he was shot at close range, has GSR on his hands, it was his gun and there is no other evidence besides his call that there could have been another person their then the evidence is not inconclusive and it is not undetermined.

Aside: do you have a link for a good comprehensive article detailing all we know thus far? We should make it sticky or post on each page- I know you've posted good links before I am just too lazy to go back thanks in advance!


Sent from my not so humble opinion.

 

[katydid23]

No, it doesn't work that way.
If he was shot at close range, has GSR on his hands, it was his gun and there is no other evidence besides his call that there could have been another person their then the evidence is not inconclusive and it is not undetermined.

The dog found a scent trail, right? And if he had been ambushed then all of the above would have been present too.

 

[cady]

I think 'undetermined' is the right way to label this, so far.

I do too, from Rudds point of expertise, unless there is forensic evidence that we don't know about that rules out either mode of death. JMO

 

[katydid23]

So. What are you gonna do? Lynch mob? We are a country of laws.

lynch mob? huh?

 

[vestigare]

Aside: do you have a link for a good comprehensive article detailing all we know thus far? We should make it sticky or post on each page- I know you've posted good links before I am just too lazy to go back thanks in advance!


Sent from my not so humble opinion.

No sorry. I havd been hoping some decent journalist would pick this up and lay it out.

I have been thinking about putting together a list of questions that need to be answered.

I am going out of town tomorrow morning and will be traveling so will have intermittent internet for two days so won't even be able to keep up tomorrows press conf.

Ugh...

 

[vestigare]

The dog found a scent trail, right? And if he had been ambushed then all of the above would have been present too.

That scent trail was even admitted by Covelli that it might have had nothing to do with the anything.

I laid out several scenarios and Cady had a really good one with why it ended because it was a trail from his original vest shot to his body.

The scent trail is not a homicide evidence in and of itself.

 

[cady]

Innocence is 'presumed' but it does not mean they ARE actually innocent.

We need to have "they" accused of a crime or indicted,before a trial happens.... and "they" should turn out to be two white males and a black male, or this whole thing falls apart. JMO

 

[katydid23]

That scent trail was even admitted by Covelli that it might have had nothing to do with the anything.

I laid out several scenarios and Cady had a really good one with why it ended because it was a trail from his original vest shot to his body.

The scent trail is not a homicide evidence in and of itself.

It MAY OR MAY NOT have been indicative. It seems to be 'undetermined.'

 

[katydid23]

We need to have "they" accused of a crime or indicted,before a trial happens.... and "they" should turn out to be two white males and a black male, or this whole thing falls apart. JMO

we are never going to have those suspects, imo.

 

[bluesneakers]

We need to have "they" accused of a crime or indicted,before a trial happens.... and "they" should turn out to be two white males and a black male, or this whole thing falls apart. JMO

It's not going to be them, so to keep it from falling apart they have to keep it from getting that far. JMO.

 

[vestigare]

It MAY OR MAY NOT have been indicative. It seems to be 'undetermined.'

Three pieces of evidence point to suicide and one to who-knows what does not equal undeteremined. The undetermined would come from several DNA samples from the same person being oj him. A partial print that might have gotten on the gun another way but can't be excluded.

A scent trail not connected to anything and a call from the person who is killed is not persuasive evidence of homicide. Not in light of everything else pointing to suicide.I

 

[katydid23]

Three pieces of evidence point to suicide and one to who-knows what does not equal undeteremined. The undetermined would come from several DNA samples from the same person being oj him. A partial print that might have gotten on the gun another way but can't be excluded.

A scent trail not connected to anything and a call from the person who is killed is not persuasive evidence of homicide. Not in light of everything else pointing to suicide.I

It still sounds like reasonable doubt exists. Why saddle his 4 sons with a suicide if it is not 100% certain. Why not just call it 'undetermined' and move on?

 

[bluesneakers]

It still sounds like reasonable doubt exists. Why saddle his 4 sons with a suicide if it is not 100% certain. Why not just call it 'undetermined' and move on?

Because the truth matters.

 

[cady]

we are never going to have those suspects, imo.

I agree. So, who else was CG in close quarters with? And where and when did the 3 people he reported enter his perception? Strange, indeed. JMO