looking4OPH
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Thanks, Boo. That was very helpful.
Now I wonder what actually happened to Lt. Joe that day.
IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3
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Now I wonder what actually happened to Lt. Joe that day.
night train
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I'm looking past all this talk of heat exhaustion and LE dressed in camouflage armed with sniper rifles running around in random directions like over caffeinated chickens with their heads cut off. The GPS in LT.Gliniewicz's Patrol car, that's key to me at this point.
The leak about Lt. Joe being on the scene 20 minutes prior to him calling dispatch,that will be interesting. False info has surfaced in the past. They've acknowledged the Patrol car GPS but it's the veracity of 20 minute gap leaked info I'd like to know about and what it means if true.
20 minutes: Setup time for a staged suicide? Perhaps, or could it be possible that Lt. Gliniewicz, who was responsible for monitoring the area, had some information he was working with and was parked out of sight off a side road waiting for events to unfold?
The leak about Lt. Joe being on the scene 20 minutes prior to him calling dispatch,that will be interesting. False info has surfaced in the past. They've acknowledged the Patrol car GPS but it's the veracity of 20 minute gap leaked info I'd like to know about and what it means if true.
20 minutes: Setup time for a staged suicide? Perhaps, or could it be possible that Lt. Gliniewicz, who was responsible for monitoring the area, had some information he was working with and was parked out of sight off a side road waiting for events to unfold?
Isn't the coroner in Lake county elected? Found it, yes he is elected. Wonder what his qualifications in the medical field are.
http://www.ilcounty.org/upload/files/Coroner-Fact-Sheet-new.pdf
http://www.ilcounty.org/upload/files/Coroner-Fact-Sheet-new.pdf
Yeah! Who DID declare him deceased, when, and who DID transfer his body to where? JMO
That is part of the headless chicken chaos though. Those gps readings take minutes to obtain and I really would like to know when this was obtained because if it required some journalist three weeks later to push them to look that is a huge red flag that this task force is really bad at what they do. Really.
He is a Board Certified Pathologist. JMO
Did you look at his credentials? He is certified by NAME (National Assoc of M E s)
ETA: Not exactly sure why the hmmm... that he is a pathologist when many jurisdictions will not accept a ME unless he is a pathologist.
Per Wiki-
Qualifications for medical examiners in the US vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Some do not require any medical training. In most jurisdictions, a medical examiner is required to have a medical degree, although in many this need not be in pathology. Other jurisdictions have stricter requirements, including additional education in pathology, law, and forensic pathology.
As I have pointed out he has NAME certification and has the stricter requirment of being a pathologist.
Wish we could ask that employee/owner from Precision Chrome who was interviewed early on if he saw Lt G's squad there earlier. I would think if he was there for up to 20 minutes "staging and preparing" someone at that place may have seen his car.
http://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/video-fox-lake-man-watched-aftermath-cops-murder-unfold
http://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/video-fox-lake-man-watched-aftermath-cops-murder-unfold
Certified. Not a ME though. And his is a political office. I'm suspicious of those leaks from "sources close to the investigation" too.
Do you know what a medical examiner is?
Do you understand how certifications work?
Like this?
Once a bachelor’s degree is obtained, a prospective medical examiner needs to then earn either a Doctor of Medicine (MD) or a Doctor of Osteopathy (DO). The student may choose a major in any medical field. Most medical schools do not have programs in forensic pathology, but some offer courses in the subject. After you’ve obtained your doctoral degree, you must then enter a residency program in pathology and forensic pathology (which is currently a 5-year process). Once your residency is complete, you are then qualified to sit for the exam (given by the American Board of Pathology) to become board certified in pathology and forensic pathology. In all, it takes an additional 8-13 years of education after high school to become a medical examiner.
http://www.forensicsciencecareers.net/medical-examiner.html
Once a bachelor’s degree is obtained, a prospective medical examiner needs to then earn either a Doctor of Medicine (MD) or a Doctor of Osteopathy (DO). The student may choose a major in any medical field. Most medical schools do not have programs in forensic pathology, but some offer courses in the subject. After you’ve obtained your doctoral degree, you must then enter a residency program in pathology and forensic pathology (which is currently a 5-year process). Once your residency is complete, you are then qualified to sit for the exam (given by the American Board of Pathology) to become board certified in pathology and forensic pathology. In all, it takes an additional 8-13 years of education after high school to become a medical examiner.
http://www.forensicsciencecareers.net/medical-examiner.html
Okay so what is your problem. You are a pathologist who then gets certification as a medical examiner. Medical examiner is a govt position it isn't a medical degree. Pathology is the degree usually required.
Btw you missed this part from the same article..
They are licensed professionals who are educated, trained, and certified to do their job.
Notice the certified. You should be more impressed with certification by a peer review board when accepting any qualifications of a professional. Anyone can get a degree, not everyone is accepted for certification by boards. This is true for medical bkards, plumbers, electricians. Engineers, etc....
Other staff credentials for the Lake County Coroners Office.
Coroner Staff*
Orlando Portillo -*Chief Deputy Coroner
Honor Graduate from Crown College, Tacoma, WA with an Associates of Science in Criminal Justice & Bachelor's in Public Administration with further studies in Practical Homicide Investigations. Honor Graduate from San Joaquin Valley College, Visalia, CA as a Medical Assistant. National Registration as a Registered Medical Assistant (RMA) since 1993 and member of American Medical Technologist since 1993. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course at St. Louis University School of Medicine. Illinois State Certified Evidence Technician, with further training in Interviews & Interrogations, Grade Crossing Collision Investigation. Employed with Lake County Coroner's Office since July 2003.
*
Tammy M. Williams - Senior Deputy Coroner
Bachelor of the Arts Degree, 1998, University of Wisconsin - Whitewater with additional course work in Pathology, Anatomy and Psychology. Associate Degree in Funeral Service, 2000, Milwaukee Area Technical College earning the Edward L. Heidenreich Restorative Art Award. Attended Vernie Fountain School of Forensics and Restorative Art, Carbondale, Illinois. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course, St. Louis University School of Medicine. Illinois State Certified Evidence Technician and Evidence Custodian.* 40 hr with further Firearms related training along with continued death investigation related training through NEMRT, SLEA and PATC. *Illinois Licensed Funeral Director since 2003. Member of Lake County Emergency Management Team. Member of American Academy of Bereavement with additional Thanatology related education credits.* NIMS Certified 100-400 with additional course work through FEMA, IEMA, CISM and National Fire Academy. Member and Volunteer with M.E.S.S. (Metropolitan Emergency Support System).*Employed with the Coroner's Office since December 2002.
Michael Reid - Deputy Coroner*
Graduate of Deerfield High School. Graduated Iowa State University in 1991 with a Bachelor of Science in Psychology/Pre-Med. Additional course work in Anatomy & Physiology, Biology, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Abnormal Psychology and Counseling. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course, St. Louis University School of Medicine and is an Illinois State Certified Evidence Technician and Lead Homicide Investigation. Received training in Arson Investigation, Response to Terrorism, and Accident Investigation. Along with Deputy Patt, runs the satellite location for Safe Kids Chicago and is certified as a Senior Child Passenger*Safety*Technician. Employed by the Coroners Office since July 2003.
*
Jason Patt - Deputy Coroner
Graduate of Niles North High School. An 8-year military veteran with qualification as an Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist,*with service in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Completed the Department of Defense*Police Academy, as well as*with the State of Illinois Corrections Academy. Previously employed*with the Lake County Sheriffs Office.* Basic Life Support and Advanced Life Support instructor.* Special training in interviews and interrogation along with suicide prevention and crisis intervention. State of Illinois Certifications in*Evidence Technician, Lead Homicide Investigation, Lead Narcotic Investigation, Accident Investigation, Crisis and Hostage Negotiation and Handcuff Instruction.*Certified in Advanced Homicide Investigations and Cold Case Investigations.**Along with Deputy Reid, runs the satellite location for Safe Kids Chicago and is certified as a Senior Child Passenger Safety*Technician. *Employed with the Lake* County Coroners Office in September, 2007.
Stephen Carroll - Deputy Coroner
*Bachelors Degree in Criminal Justice from St. Marys University of Minnesota. Received Law Enforcement Training** at* Alexandria Technical Institute. First Responder certified since 2006. Employed with the Lake County Coroners Office in September, 2007
*
*
*
Michael Donnenwirth - Deputy Coroner
Graduate of Waukegan Township High School, Graduate of the College of Lake County with an Associate of Applied Science in Law Enforcement, Graduate of Western Illinois University with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Law Enforcement.* Retired 30 year veteran of the Waukegan Police Department.* Graduate of the Illinois Police Training Institute with specialized training in Evidence Packaging and Handling, Reid Techniques for Interviewing and Interrogating, Arson Investigation, First Responder and other related training through NEMRT.* Illinois State Certified: *Evidence Technician, Juvenile Officer, Gang Enforcement Officer, Community Oriented Policing Officer, Elderly Service Officer, Police Instructor, Monadnock Expandable Baton Instructor.* Certified Field Training Officer. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course, St. Louis University School of Medicine.* Employed with Lake County Coroner's Office since August, 2011
Kathy Needham Executive Assistant/Deputy Coroner
Worked as an Executive Assistant in Outboard Marine Corporations Law Department for 13 years. Began her career with Lake County in the County Clerks office as an Elections Executive in 2001 and transferred to the Coroners Office in June, 2004
*
Coroner Staff*
Orlando Portillo -*Chief Deputy Coroner
Honor Graduate from Crown College, Tacoma, WA with an Associates of Science in Criminal Justice & Bachelor's in Public Administration with further studies in Practical Homicide Investigations. Honor Graduate from San Joaquin Valley College, Visalia, CA as a Medical Assistant. National Registration as a Registered Medical Assistant (RMA) since 1993 and member of American Medical Technologist since 1993. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course at St. Louis University School of Medicine. Illinois State Certified Evidence Technician, with further training in Interviews & Interrogations, Grade Crossing Collision Investigation. Employed with Lake County Coroner's Office since July 2003.
*
Tammy M. Williams - Senior Deputy Coroner
Bachelor of the Arts Degree, 1998, University of Wisconsin - Whitewater with additional course work in Pathology, Anatomy and Psychology. Associate Degree in Funeral Service, 2000, Milwaukee Area Technical College earning the Edward L. Heidenreich Restorative Art Award. Attended Vernie Fountain School of Forensics and Restorative Art, Carbondale, Illinois. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course, St. Louis University School of Medicine. Illinois State Certified Evidence Technician and Evidence Custodian.* 40 hr with further Firearms related training along with continued death investigation related training through NEMRT, SLEA and PATC. *Illinois Licensed Funeral Director since 2003. Member of Lake County Emergency Management Team. Member of American Academy of Bereavement with additional Thanatology related education credits.* NIMS Certified 100-400 with additional course work through FEMA, IEMA, CISM and National Fire Academy. Member and Volunteer with M.E.S.S. (Metropolitan Emergency Support System).*Employed with the Coroner's Office since December 2002.
Michael Reid - Deputy Coroner*
Graduate of Deerfield High School. Graduated Iowa State University in 1991 with a Bachelor of Science in Psychology/Pre-Med. Additional course work in Anatomy & Physiology, Biology, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Abnormal Psychology and Counseling. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course, St. Louis University School of Medicine and is an Illinois State Certified Evidence Technician and Lead Homicide Investigation. Received training in Arson Investigation, Response to Terrorism, and Accident Investigation. Along with Deputy Patt, runs the satellite location for Safe Kids Chicago and is certified as a Senior Child Passenger*Safety*Technician. Employed by the Coroners Office since July 2003.
*
Jason Patt - Deputy Coroner
Graduate of Niles North High School. An 8-year military veteran with qualification as an Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist,*with service in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Completed the Department of Defense*Police Academy, as well as*with the State of Illinois Corrections Academy. Previously employed*with the Lake County Sheriffs Office.* Basic Life Support and Advanced Life Support instructor.* Special training in interviews and interrogation along with suicide prevention and crisis intervention. State of Illinois Certifications in*Evidence Technician, Lead Homicide Investigation, Lead Narcotic Investigation, Accident Investigation, Crisis and Hostage Negotiation and Handcuff Instruction.*Certified in Advanced Homicide Investigations and Cold Case Investigations.**Along with Deputy Reid, runs the satellite location for Safe Kids Chicago and is certified as a Senior Child Passenger Safety*Technician. *Employed with the Lake* County Coroners Office in September, 2007.
Stephen Carroll - Deputy Coroner
*Bachelors Degree in Criminal Justice from St. Marys University of Minnesota. Received Law Enforcement Training** at* Alexandria Technical Institute. First Responder certified since 2006. Employed with the Lake County Coroners Office in September, 2007
*
*
*
Michael Donnenwirth - Deputy Coroner
Graduate of Waukegan Township High School, Graduate of the College of Lake County with an Associate of Applied Science in Law Enforcement, Graduate of Western Illinois University with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Law Enforcement.* Retired 30 year veteran of the Waukegan Police Department.* Graduate of the Illinois Police Training Institute with specialized training in Evidence Packaging and Handling, Reid Techniques for Interviewing and Interrogating, Arson Investigation, First Responder and other related training through NEMRT.* Illinois State Certified: *Evidence Technician, Juvenile Officer, Gang Enforcement Officer, Community Oriented Policing Officer, Elderly Service Officer, Police Instructor, Monadnock Expandable Baton Instructor.* Certified Field Training Officer. Completed Medicolegal Death Investigator training course, St. Louis University School of Medicine.* Employed with Lake County Coroner's Office since August, 2011
Kathy Needham Executive Assistant/Deputy Coroner
Worked as an Executive Assistant in Outboard Marine Corporations Law Department for 13 years. Began her career with Lake County in the County Clerks office as an Elections Executive in 2001 and transferred to the Coroners Office in June, 2004
*
November 09, 2012|By Jeff Danna, Chicago Tribune reporter
*
Retired pathologist Thomas Rudd says he thinks the Lake County coroner's office should be run from a medical perspective, and after he's sworn in for the post he was elected to this week, he intends to take steps toward obtaining certifications that the office lacks.
"This is an office that has never been run by a physician-pathologist," Rudd said. "I know how to run a lab; I have run labs."
Rudd said one of his first initiatives as coroner will be to seek accreditation for the office from the National Association of Medical Examiners, which entails completing a checklistidentifying office facilities and passing an inspection.
Although not mandatory, the accreditation is considered a "feather in your cap," Rudd said.
He also said he would ask the deputy coroners to seek certification from the American Board of Medical Legal Death Investigators. That designation also is not required, but like the office accreditation, it would send a message that the coroner's office adheres to national standards for investigations, Rudd said.
"Nobody's going to get fired if they can't pass" the test, he said. "It will not be used as a weapon of punishment."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...coroner-accreditation-republican-steve-newton
*
Retired pathologist Thomas Rudd says he thinks the Lake County coroner's office should be run from a medical perspective, and after he's sworn in for the post he was elected to this week, he intends to take steps toward obtaining certifications that the office lacks.
"This is an office that has never been run by a physician-pathologist," Rudd said. "I know how to run a lab; I have run labs."
Rudd said one of his first initiatives as coroner will be to seek accreditation for the office from the National Association of Medical Examiners, which entails completing a checklistidentifying office facilities and passing an inspection.
Although not mandatory, the accreditation is considered a "feather in your cap," Rudd said.
He also said he would ask the deputy coroners to seek certification from the American Board of Medical Legal Death Investigators. That designation also is not required, but like the office accreditation, it would send a message that the coroner's office adheres to national standards for investigations, Rudd said.
"Nobody's going to get fired if they can't pass" the test, he said. "It will not be used as a weapon of punishment."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...coroner-accreditation-republican-steve-newton
Rudd has also proposed switching the coroner's office to a medical examiner's office, which is generally run by an appointed rather than elected forensic pathologist. He has said such a change could take some convincing of county officials and voters, since it would ultimately have to be put to referendum.
Running the coroner's office from a medical perspective became one of the central issues in the coroner race.
Running the coroner's office from a medical perspective became one of the central issues in the coroner race.
Maybe the doc is doing some buck-passing. If he's missing needed information why doesn't he call a press conference to say exactly what he needs to make a determination on MOD? Make it public just like the statements he's previously made. IMO it's a political issue more than anything else.
It is apparent to me that you have not read all the posts and links here. Just about everything that has been stated by both Rudd and LE has been published. Rudd has explained his dilemma and what solid evidence he needs to make a determination. JMO
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