IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

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  • #961
Understood about Coroner Rudd.
It just seems like there was conflict between LE and Rudd. Why?
And then we learn later that three LE observed the autopsy. Why that too?
 
  • #962
Not sure why LE would float the suicide idea so long after he died. LE seemed so sure that this was a homicide, very probably involving 2 white males and 1 black male. There was such a huge manhunt for these suspects. Yet, it seems that LE had the basic case facts from the beginning. Now LE is saying that the case is very complex ? Complex how, I wonder ?
 
  • #963
There's a certain kind of mentality some men have (and some women) that they have to be the best at everything, and being physically fit/attractive/self-reliant/at the top of their career is the only thing in life. I imagine aging or being ill or depressed would be quite difficult for a person like that. You know that kind of military/macho/proud/perfectionistic thing. Like the Japanese soldiers in WWII who committed suicide rather than "lose face" and "honor". False pride. I'm not saying this is the case, but when I looked at the Facebook pictures, so many gave that "die with your boots on" warrior look. Not any sign of gentleness. In many pictures he and his wife are pictured giving the finger. I'm sure he was a great guy, but my sense was that he could probably be a real b^*&8%d at times. Toxicology was mentioned as being important to this case. Was he a drinker? Did he use anabolic steroids? So many things can mess with a person's mind. Someone mentioned the possibility of PTSD. Maybe he could not conceive of having to deal with anything that might make him feel weak or not in control - like therapy, old age, illness, loss of status, etc. They would rather commit suicide rather than have to deal with not being a "warrior". Sorry if this sounds off the wall, but I have known men like that.

Pics of the Lt. and Mrs. giving the finger? For what reason and to whom?
Geesh. I'm just a bit older so that seems rather bazaar (immature) behavior imo.
It is not that I've never felt like giving someone the finger, but to do so in a picture that all can see isn't cool - especially when one is considered a role model????? Again, jimo.
 
  • #964
Adding - These days, someone might shoot you just for that, that is, for giving them the finger. No kidding!
 
  • #965
There's a certain kind of mentality some men have (and some women) that they have to be the best at everything, and being physically fit/attractive/self-reliant/at the top of their career is the only thing in life. I imagine aging or being ill or depressed would be quite difficult for a person like that. You know that kind of military/macho/proud/perfectionistic thing. Like the Japanese soldiers in WWII who committed suicide rather than "lose face" and "honor". False pride. I'm not saying this is the case, but when I looked at the Facebook pictures, so many gave that "die with your boots on" warrior look. Not any sign of gentleness. In many pictures he and his wife are pictured giving the finger. I'm sure he was a great guy, but my sense was that he could probably be a real b^*&8%d at times. Toxicology was mentioned as being important to this case. Was he a drinker? Did he use anabolic steroids? So many things can mess with a person's mind. Someone mentioned the possibility of PTSD. Maybe he could not conceive of having to deal with anything that might make him feel weak or not in control - like therapy, old age, illness, loss of status, etc. They would rather commit suicide rather than have to deal with not being a "warrior". Sorry if this sounds off the wall, but I have known men like that.

I disagree that he had no signs of 'gentleness.' When the local news was interviewing mourners about him, there were many locals who praised him for his kindness and for the way he cared for them. Young people came forward and said that he always stopped to speak to them and showed concern for them and those he mentored were really broken up. They said he was a wonderful mentor and had made a big difference in their lives. He donated a lot of time and energy to the mentoring program for At Risk teens in his town. It takes a gentle soul to do all that, imo.

As for the 'giving the finger' pix, I think he had a great and wild sense of humor. His nickname was Gi Joe. He had to have a sense of humor to allow people to call him that. And he had FOUR sons. It takes a sense of humor to raise 4 boys into adulthood.
 
  • #966
There's a certain kind of mentality some men have (and some women) that they have to be the best at everything, and being physically fit/attractive/self-reliant/at the top of their career is the only thing in life. I imagine aging or being ill or depressed would be quite difficult for a person like that. You know that kind of military/macho/proud/perfectionistic thing. Like the Japanese soldiers in WWII who committed suicide rather than "lose face" and "honor". False pride. I'm not saying this is the case, but when I looked at the Facebook pictures, so many gave that "die with your boots on" warrior look. Not any sign of gentleness. In many pictures he and his wife are pictured giving the finger. I'm sure he was a great guy, but my sense was that he could probably be a real b^*&8%d at times. Toxicology was mentioned as being important to this case. Was he a drinker? Did he use anabolic steroids? So many things can mess with a person's mind. Someone mentioned the possibility of PTSD. Maybe he could not conceive of having to deal with anything that might make him feel weak or not in control - like therapy, old age, illness, loss of status, etc. They would rather commit suicide rather than have to deal with not being a "warrior". Sorry if this sounds off the wall, but I have known men like that.

BBM- If he did commit suicide, this is why I believe he had PTSD. In his eyes,to admit it and seek treatment would make him appear weak. He strived to be perfect. He served in the military and was in LE for many yrs. The perfect storm for PTSD.
 
  • #967
I disagree that he had no signs of 'gentleness.' When the local news was interviewing mourners about him, there were many locals who praised him for his kindness and for the way he cared for them. Young people came forward and said that he always stopped to speak to them and showed concern for them and those he mentored were really broken up. They said he was a wonderful mentor and had made a big difference in their lives. He donated a lot of time and energy to the mentoring program for At Risk teens in his town. It takes a gentle soul to do all that, imo.

As for the 'giving the finger' pix, I think he had a great and wild sense of humor. His nickname was Gi Joe. He had to have a sense of humor to allow people to call him that. And he had FOUR sons. It takes a sense of humor to raise 4 boys into adulthood.

I agree with every single thing in your post. I shudder to think of what people might think about me based on some of the things I have posted on my social media. And I have lots of friends that post even crazier things and I know they are awesome wonderful people who might just happen to have a sick sense of humor!
 
  • #968
The biggest mystery to me is why he wanted to off himself to begin with. There is a story there and maybe some day we will find out. JMO

Imo, he didn't commit suicide.

I will be glad when this case is finally solved for his sake and the sake of the many who loved and admired him greatly.
 
  • #969
Understood about Coroner Rudd.
It just seems like there was conflict between LE and Rudd. Why?
And then we learn later that three LE observed the autopsy. Why that too?
Woe, do you remember when the Melissa Calusinski case was mentioned earlier in this thread? Filenko was the person who interrogated and illicited what Rudd and others believe to have been a false confession. A false confession that helped to put her in prison. There are better articles than this one which specifically mention Filenko (this one does not) but this will either get you started or jog your memory. Virtually everyone in the State's Attorney Office as well as the Lake County Sheriff's office would like to see Rudd voted out of office in the next election.

This will get you started. I really think this is a very big factor in what is or isn't going on with Filenko, etal.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-a-caregiver-in-prison-for-a-murder-that-never-happened/
 
  • #970
Well..think of the LT as a witness to this crime who is speaking to us after the fact. What has he told us? What has his body told us?

He tells us that he saw 3 men, 2 white 1 black. Just because we can't find the 3 men, does that disprove his statement? Could there be a logical explanation why we haven't found the 3? Answer: They got away somehow.
He tells they went into the swamp. Just because there are no footprints, doesn't mean they weren't there. Answer: it's a marshy area and footprints disappear.
His body tells us it was shot twice. Logic would dictate that suicide would include only one shot. Answer: The first shot would have put him off balance and thus make the 2nd shot easier to accomplish by a killer.
The scene tells us there is unknown DNA. So their could have been several people there. Answer: possible unknown persons at scene of the crime.
This all goes along with Filenko's PC, in case I didn't make it obvious enough. But Filenko is trying to tell us the LT's story.
So in other words, given none of this other evidence, suicide theory would be a simple conclusion. No call, no DNA, no evidence of a struggle, only one shot, etc...but since we have all of those things lined up telling one story, in my opinion, it needs to be disproven that these things are as they would seem.

Now let's think about what all of that evidence may have meant if the LT was still alive when they reached him. Would you be inclined to believe what he is telling you? He is a 30 year veteran, a family man, a good cop, a US veteran, a pillar of the community, etc...would you even doubt his story for an instant, at first blush? Probably not. So it stands to reason that they are investigating this as a homicide based on the story that was presented to them by their trusted officer. The evidence will either match up to his story or not. So far, many of the things we know actually do match up to his story. Unknown DNA. Evidence of a struggle. 2 shots. The radio call. Etc... So in order to change the investigation to a suicide investigation, in my opinion, there needs to be specific evidence pointing back in that direction. At this time, there appears to be no direct evidence pointing back that way that isn't speculation. To me, the lack of evidence is not evidence. The lack of 3 suspects is not evidence.

So what is known at this time all points to homicide. So I ask, what evidence do we have at this time, that points directly to suicide?

Great Post!

I believe what may have happened is he confronted the three men he saw and one or more overcame him trying to take his weapon. He would try to pull his weapon in order to protect himself. In fact with it being three males he would already have his gun drawn when he went into the woods. The three would think they were in the range of his fire and could be shot so one or more struggled with him over his gun and that is when and how he was struck twice. That is why he was struck in uncommon areas. IMO

Most victims who are shot do have gun residue on their hands because they either put up their hands to block the line of fire or they are trying to grapple with the suspect and tries to take or keep control of the weapon trying not to be shot.

I don't think there is any evidence this fine officer committed suicide. Of course until this is solved one way or the other they cannot rule out anything including suicide. But that doesn't mean it is a suicide.

I think this officer was murdered. The police know the difference in a struggle that happened during the time the officer and the three others were there and after they arrived. They wouldn't be stomping and tracking through any areas around the crime scene. They are very careful not to disturb any evidence.

Also there is much more they know that they aren't telling the media. That is the way it is in every case and not just this one. They will not release things they know can impeded their investigation. They know there are some things only the killer would know.

May justice come for the LT and his family and friends.
 
  • #971
I disagree that he had no signs of 'gentleness.' When the local news was interviewing mourners about him, there were many locals who praised him for his kindness and for the way he cared for them. Young people came forward and said that he always stopped to speak to them and showed concern for them and those he mentored were really broken up. They said he was a wonderful mentor and had made a big difference in their lives. He donated a lot of time and energy to the mentoring program for At Risk teens in his town. It takes a gentle soul to do all that, imo.

As for the 'giving the finger' pix, I think he had a great and wild sense of humor. His nickname was Gi Joe. He had to have a sense of humor to allow people to call him that. And he had FOUR sons. It takes a sense of humor to raise 4 boys into adulthood.

I respectfully disagree. I would replace the word gentleness with leadership in your above post. He was a wonderful leader and was comfortable in a leadership role. I don't see that as beimg gentle.
 
  • #972
As for the 'giving the finger' pix, I think he had a great and wild sense of humor.

rsbm

Oh yeah, a husband and wife posting photographs publicly of themselves giving the finger on Facebook shows an outstanding sense of humor, not to mention sound judgement, intelligence, and professionalism.
 
  • #973
I respectfully disagree. I would replace the word gentleness with leadership in your above post. He was a wonderful leader and was comfortable in a leadership role. I don't see that as beimg gentle.

I respectfully disagree with you, because I've seen many pictures of him holding his wife tenderly, holding his sons, etc...so how about we meet half way and say he was a kind person?
 
  • #974
rsbm

Oh yeah, a husband and wife posting photographs publicly of themselves giving the finger on Facebook shows an outstanding sense of humor, not to mention sound judgement, intelligence, and professionalism.

It doesn't mean that he was a bad person, committed suicide or anything else. It's a silly picture. Who cares?
 
  • #975
I didn't think you were being snarky and my answer didn't mean to be snarky. Try reading again in a non-snarky voice, if that helps, as I know sometimes things come across in an unintended way.

Thank you. I tried replying before but kept losing the post so trying again. I did reread your post. I'm just still at the show me the evidence, any solid evidence someone was there when LT. CG was shot. For example, in yesterdays presser Filenko said that Lt.Gliniewicz hands could have been on the weapon or in close proximity to the gun. I don't want to remwin in a circular discussion on things I posted several times, but I just do not see any evidence to concretely prove Lt.Gliniewicz was not alone when he was shot.
 
  • #976
Is giving the finger in a FB pic an indicator of possible suicidal tendencies?
 
  • #977
I respectfully disagree with you, because I've seen many pictures of him holding his wife tenderly, holding his sons, etc...so how about we meet half way and say he was a kind person?

I don't think he was bad or unkind. i just think our perceptions, or definitions of gentle differ. I don't really have much experience with people with military backgrounds so maybe I just don't equate that tough strong man stuff with gentleness.
 
  • #978
rsbm

Oh yeah, a husband and wife posting photographs publicly of themselves giving the finger on Facebook shows an outstanding sense of humor, not to mention sound judgement, intelligence, and professionalism.

I really don't think it is that big of a deal. Maybe because I am married to a comedy writer. He is rebellious and always breaks 'professionalism' and abhors sound judgment if it means he cannot be irreverent.

Do we know the context of that picture?
 
  • #979
Is giving the finger in a FB pic an indicator of possible suicidal tendencies?


it may or may not. It isn't necessarily the type of thing I would portray publicly if I were seeking a chief of police position.
 
  • #980
I don't think he was bad or unkind. i just think our perceptions, or definitions of gentle differ. I don't really have much experience with people with military backgrounds so maybe I just don't equate that tough strong man stuff with gentleness.

I'd say this hero is gentle:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291


An Army veteran was shot seven times while trying to save other students during the deadly Oregon community college rampage, according to his aunt.

Chris Mintz "tried to protect some people," his aunt Sheila Brown told NBC News in a telephone interview. "We were told he did heroic things to protect some people."
 
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