IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[night train]

Do people have a problem with LE officers going to neighboring precincts to honor fallen officers?

I'm 100‰ ok with it locally for fallen area LE who are killed in the line of duty.I don't support airfare, lodging etc to send someone across the US.
I

 

[vestigare]

You do not need to know someone personally to attend their funeral and show your respect. I think it is unfair to assume that someone does it to make themselves 'look better.' I think there are lots of other reasons why someone would want to extend themselves like that. But one would have to imagine other more altruistic reasons rather than the most negative ones.

Imagining the supposed altruistic reasons a person may or may not.do something does not negate the very selfish reasons they also may or may not have done something.

Call me a cynic but I would imagine if they weren't getting something personally out of it (even just a good feeling of support) they would not be doing it. And proof is most are getting more than a good feeling and that more comes from the tax payers.

 

[katydid23]

Imagining the supposed altruistic reasons a person may or may not.do something does not negate the very selfish reasons they also may or may not have done something.

Call me a cynic but I would imagine if they weren't getting something personally out of it (even just a good feeling of support) they would not be doing it. And proof is most are getting more than a good feeling and that more comes from the tax payers.

So you think most officers travel to funerals of other fallen officers for 'selfish' reasons? :facepalm:

They ARE getting something 'personally' out of it. They unite and bond with other officers, form important relationships, commiserate, grieve, socialize, share ideas and vent, and honor a brother officer in his death.

 

[Chuz Life]

We are clearly not on the same page. I wasn't making the case that this might have been an attempt to fake an injury.

You seem puzzled but it's not like it hasn't been tried (and done) before (and since.)

"Part-time cop crashed his own cruiser, shot it, set it on fire - then claimed he was attacked and sparked manhunt."


I don't know where you are getting the 'faked injury' angle from. I never introduced that as a possibility in this case.

So what did your original post mean about it could be a accidental suicide. Can you please re explain just so i understand. Thanks.

What is accidental about 2 shots from your own gun?

I'll try but I don't how this possibility can be so confusing to some.

Imagine you were the Lt.

Imagine that (who knows why?) you decided to fake a criminal encounter.

Imagine that you decided you wanted to make that encounter look like you were ambushed and stripped of your weapon.

Imagine that you decided to shoot yourself in the vest once or twice to make it look like your (imaginary) attackers got your gun away from you and then tried to kill you with it.

Imagine the first shot to your vest went as well as expected.

Imagine you then walked about a hundred feet, doing various things to make it look like a struggle took place.

Then, imagine you intended to shoot yourself (in the vest) a 2nd time and this time in the chest.

You choose an odd angle to make it look more convincing.

Imagine you do all of this with no intention of injuring or killing yourself.

Then, imagine that 2nd shot goes horribly wrong and you are dead - despite your intentions.


Did that help?

 

[vestigare]

In my local precinct they only allow a few funeral trips to be paid for. But they do business on the paid for trips. They set up meeting with other precincts about issues that need to be resolved, like cold cases that are connected to both areas, or new policies or programs that both are implementing. They need to be careful with the budget so they do not spend freely or wastefully. JMO

I am sure they want you to believe that.....

 

[i.b.nora]

Traveling across country, or out of state, is, imo, just another form of featherbedding. $$$

 

[vestigare]

Important to the officers who choose to attend. And important to the morale of the officers as a group. I have no problem with my taxes paying for a representative of a precinct attending a funeral of a fellow fallen officer. If you want to go fight it, go for it.

I will use your quote next time a PD doesn't have the funds to investigate a crime but they did attend a funeral. I am sure it will be a comfort to the family to know it is important to some people and they were happy to pay it.

 

[katydid23]

I will use your quote next time a PD doesn't have the funds to investigate a crime but they did attend a funeral. I am sure it will be a comfort to the family to know it is important to some people and they were happy to pay it.

I think you might be overstating the problem. What percentage of a precincts budget goes to pay for sending an officer to a fellow officers funeral?

 

[vestigare]

And how often does this happen in an area? How many times? Is this a huge epidemic that is sweeping the country ? Somehow I don't think so.

You say it hurts business in a town where the funeral is held? I disagree. Those 'selfish' officers have to eat and sleep somewhere. They buy gas and meals etc.

Personally, I think one might be making a mountain out of a molehill. JMO

It doesn't matter how often it happens. Something isn't automatically acceptable because it only happens infrequently.

You should do some research on the debacle after rhe Moore aFuneral in NYC this summer. Yeah see how thankful some of those local bar owners were to have those out of town cops patronize their establishment.

I also doubt the out of town cops were going into the local business such as the local butcher, or the day care center, or the print shop that had their business shut for hours because the street was closed.

 

[night train]

I'll try but I don't how this possibility can be so confusing to some.

Imagine you were the Lt.

Imagine that (who knows why?) you decided to fake a criminal encounter.

Imagine that you decided you wanted to make that encounter look like you were ambushed and stripped of your weapon.

Imagine that you decided to shoot yourself in the vest once or twice to make it look like your (imaginary) attackers got your gun away from you and then tried to kill you with it.

Imagine the first shot to your vest went as well as expected.

Imagine you then walked about a hundred feet, doing various things to make it look like a struggle took place.

Then, imagine you intended to shoot yourself (in the vest) a 2nd time and this time in the chest.

You choose an odd angle to make it look more convincing.

Imagine you do all of this with no intention of injuring or killing yourself.

Then, imagine that 2nd shot goes horribly wrong and you are dead - despite your intentions.


Did that help?

For a guy who's a firearms instructor and Sniper? That's what I call having a really bad day.

Unless the toxicology results show he was hammered, I don't see him making that mistake.

 

[vestigare]

I think you might be overstating the problem. What percentage of a precincts budget goes to pay for sending an officer to a fellow officers funeral?

A dime here a quarter there. What does it matter right?

 

[katydid23]

According to this article, it is not that big of a pressing problem. Many PD's make their officers pay their own expenses. Some pay some or all of the expenses, but limit the number of funerals attended. Sometimes Police Unions pay the expenses or fraternal organizations, instead of ther department themselves funding it.

http://www.mercurynews.com/my-town/ci_28132932/should-taxpayers-foot-bill-send-cops-out-state

"This newspaper surveyed local departments about the New York funerals to explore the different ways police handle such expenses at a time when there are many competing demands on strapped law enforcement budgets. It found wide disparities in practices.

Several Bay Area police unions paid for food, lodging and airfare in connection with the New York funerals. JetBlue flew some officers free of charge. On the other hand, some Bay Area police officers attended the funerals on their own time and dime; how many is hard to say, if only because the agencies queried do not systematically track what their officers do on their own time."

 

[katydid23]

A dime here a quarter there. What does it matter right?

Yes. exactly. The benefits may outweigh the costs. And according to the article I just linked, only some PDs pay the expenses. Most find other ways to pay, like asking unions or fraternal organizations or charities or self pay by the officers. So it does not seem like a big problem over all. JMO

 

[katydid23]

It doesn't matter how often it happens. Something isn't automatically acceptable because it only happens infrequently.

You should do some research on the debacle after rhe Moore aFuneral in NYC this summer. Yeah see how thankful some of those local bar owners were to have those out of town cops patronize their establishment.

I also doubt the out of town cops were going into the local business such as the local butcher, or the day care center, or the print shop that had their business shut for hours because the street was closed.

So for ONE day the street was closed for several hours? And that is what the big issue is? You are saying what---no big funerals allowed for officers because of that?

 

[vestigare]

According to this article, it is not that big of a pressing problem. Many PD's make their officers pay their own expenses. Some pay some or all of the expenses, but limit the number of funerals attended. Sometimes Police Unions pay the expenses or fraternal organizations, instead of ther department themselves funding it.

http://www.mercurynews.com/my-town/ci_28132932/should-taxpayers-foot-bill-send-cops-out-state

"This newspaper surveyed local departments about the New York funerals to explore the different ways police handle such expenses at a time when there are many competing demands on strapped law enforcement budgets. It found wide disparities in practices.

Several Bay Area police unions paid for food, lodging and airfare in connection with the New York funerals. JetBlue flew some officers free of charge. On the other hand, some Bay Area police officers attended the funerals on their own time and dime; how many is hard to say, if only because the agencies queried do not systematically track what their officers do on their own time."

Notice the key words there in the article. Some. All. Limit. Wide disparities.

Thanks for providing an article that said everything I have been saying.

 

[katydid23]

Notice the key words there in the article. Some. All. Limit. Wide disparities.

Thanks for providing an article that said everything I have been saying.

It says what we BOTH have been saying. Some PDs pick up the bill, others don't. It looks like the costs are about 1% of the budget, if that. So I don't understand the hysteria.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'll try but I don't how this possibility can be so confusing to some.

Imagine you were the Lt.

Imagine that (who knows why?) you decided to fake a criminal encounter.

Imagine that you decided you wanted to make that encounter look like you were ambushed and stripped of your weapon.

Imagine that you decided to shoot yourself in the vest once or twice to make it look like your (imaginary) attackers got your gun away from you and then tried to kill you with it.

Imagine the first shot to your vest went as well as expected.

Imagine you then walked about a hundred feet, doing various things to make it look like a struggle took place.

Then, imagine you intended to shoot yourself (in the vest) a 2nd time and this time in the chest.

You choose an odd angle to make it look more convincing.

Imagine you do all of this with no intention of injuring or killing yourself.

Then, imagine that 2nd shot goes horribly wrong and you are dead - despite your intentions.


Did that help?

The first shot was good enough to say I was shot at and hit in the vest. So the 2nd shot would have served no purpose unless he wanted to slightly wound himself so he can get more time off or have more glory or whatever.

Which in that case. A quick graze to the arm or leg would have sufficed. Jmo

So the 2nd shot to the vest would serve no purpose since he was already hit in the vest. He still could have claim the same temporary benefits or time off or media glory with only the 1 shot to the vest. So if that was his plan. Then the 2nd shot wasn't needed.

Btw. LT would have known that they would match the bullets to his gun. So he would have shot at himself with a different gun. So this definitely debunks that as being his original intention. Jmo

 

[vestigare]

So for ONE day the street was closed for several hours? And that is what the big issue is? You are saying what---no big funerals allowed for officers because of that?

Oh so as long as you don't think it is a big issue for a local businessman to have his business closed down for a few hours during the middle of the day then he really has nothing to worry about I guess....
Trust me a few hours down can be a huge deal to some businesses.

You completely missed my point. The issue is not the funeral so much as it is the reasoning why hundreds of people feel they need to come stand on the side of the road and watch hours long processions of cars. The issue is that you claimed these people are being altruistic and whatever and should be allowed to spend tax money to do it-- but my point is there are ramifications that are not positive and people should think about that before just assuming there is nothing whatsoever negative about attending some huge funeral. It affects more than just the dead person's family. Far far more.

 

[vestigare]

It says what we BOTH have been saying. Some PDs pick up the bill, others don't. It looks like the costs are about 1% of the budget, if that. So I don't understand the hysteria.

I already outlined some pay their own way other the union pays, airlines, hotels etc sometimes pick up tabs in my first post to Night Train so this was just what I had said hours ago.
No, it isn't what you have been saying. You have been talking about how much it isn't a big deal. That wasn't even supported in your article where they the professor was quoted as saying he thought they should pay their own way.
Hysteria?
Oh okay. Well sorry if I don't like even one penny of my money being spent where I didn't think it needed to be spent. That was one penny that should have been spent on investigating an actual crime. You know the actual function of their job and what they receive tax funding for.

 

[katydid23]

I already outlined some pay their own way other the union pays, airlines, hotels etc sometimes pick up tabs in my first post to Night Train so this was just what I had said hours ago.
No, it isn't what you have been saying. You have been talking about how much it isn't a big deal. That wasn't even supported in your article where they the professor was quoted as saying he thought they should pay their own way.
Hysteria?
Oh okay. Well sorry if I don't like even one penny of my money being spent where I didn't think it needed to be spent. That was one penny that should have been spent on investigating an actual crime. You know the actual function of their job and what they receive tax funding for.

Very little tax money is spent on the officers attending the funerals. Most of the expenses are absorbed by unions, fraternal organizations, charities and the officers themselves. The PD's that do pay the expenses , which are typically small because it is usually in the same state, use less than 1% of the operating budget. So it is not having any kind of impact on their ability to fight crime etc.

I am sorry if you don't want to have one penny spent where you think it shouldn't be spent. But you are not in charge of the budget and the allocation. And if the chief and commissioner feel it is important to pay their respect to another Department in their time of need then they will do so. It is an important part of their job, to elevate morale, increase the connections and working relationships with other departments, and make a public statement of support. So it is a function of their job.