IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[vestigare]

Very little tax money is spent on the officers attending the funerals. Most of the expenses are absorbed by unions, fraternal organizations, charities and the officers themselves. The PD's that do pay the expenses , which are typically small because it is usually in the same state, use less than 1% of the operating budget. So it is not having any kind of impact on their ability to fight crime etc.

I am sorry if you don't want to have one penny spent where you think it shouldn't be spent. But you are not in charge of the budget and the allocation. And if the chief and commissioner feel it is important to pay their respect to another Department in their time of need then they will do so. It is an important part of their job, to elevate morale, increase the connections and working relationships with other departments, and make a public statement of support. So it is a function of their job.

Every single penny has an impact. Have you ever even been part of a city budget meeting? Do you understand that every single taxpayer is in charge of the budget? There are no magic fairies who dole out money to these departments.

This is a forum about criminal investigations. We scream and cry when we can't get DNA tested or there isn't someone to open a file because they don't have the manpower. Every single penny matters.
I don't give a fig if the chief thinks it is important for moral or whatever. This isn't his call. He is to do the job the tax-payers have hired him to do and nothing more.

 

[i.b.nora]

Very little tax money is spent on the officers attending the funerals. Most of the expenses are absorbed by unions, fraternal organizations, charities and the officers themselves. The PD's that do pay the expenses , which are typically small because it is usually in the same state, use less than 1% of the operating budget. So it is not having any kind of impact on their ability to fight crime etc.

I am sorry if you don't want to have one penny spent where you think it shouldn't be spent. But you are not in charge of the budget and the allocation. And if the chief and commissioner feel it is important to pay their respect to another Department in their time of need then they will do so. It is an important part of their job, to elevate morale, increase the connections and working relationships with other departments, and make a public statement of support. So it is a function of their job.

Link please.

 

[Cubby]

In my opinion and in the scenario I imagine, it wouldn't have mattered if he had his taser and forgot about it or not. He had a radio on himself his entire career and he didn't use it to 'defend' himself either. Especially after taking a shot to the vest and as he traveled the distance of 100 feet before the next one.

They say the investigators went to the scene and tried to re-enact some of the events to explore possible escape routes. I would like to know if they re-enacted the whole thing. How do they explain a officer losing their weapon to an assailant, taking a shot to their vest and NOT immediately grabbing their radio for backup as they either run 100 feet from the guys with his gun or while running after the guys with his gun?

And all that mud and not one footprint from the alleged suspects?

wow.

I think we need to consider if someone went into the swamp and their foot prints were immediately filled in we should see mud tracked on the ground from the escape route. A witness or witnesses who saw someone covered with mud to various parts of there body. When I was stuck in the swamp in Hampshire, my arms were filthy because I had to reach in and pull my shoes out. What are the odds three people escaping a crime scene who in a swampy area wouldn't fall at least once?

And, if there were three people there clearly only one pulled the trigger. What reason would the other two have to not come forward and make a deal and claim the reward? Agree to testify in exchange for immunity.

There are just so many improbable things that would have to happen for this to be a homicide, it just seems more likely someone would win the lottery and get struck by lightening in the same day.

 

[vestigare]

Very little tax money is spent on the officers attending the funerals. Most of the expenses are absorbed by unions, fraternal organizations, charities and the officers themselves. The PD's that do pay the expenses , which are typically small because it is usually in the same state, use less than 1% of the operating budget. So it is not having any kind of impact on their ability to fight crime etc.

I am sorry if you don't want to have one penny spent where you think it shouldn't be spent. But you are not in charge of the budget and the allocation. And if the chief and commissioner feel it is important to pay their respect to another Department in their time of need then they will do so. It is an important part of their job, to elevate morale, increase the connections and working relationships with other departments, and make a public statement of support. So it is a function of their job.

You know what would be really altruistic? They take that money they would have spent on attending some funeral whether it is from their own pockets, the Union or donations and they turn around and donate it to someone trying to get DNA tested or trying to get a cold case reopened. They can donate it in the name of the dead officer who's funeral they might have attended.
Then they can go on Skype for free and talk to all the other officers who would have gone to the funeral as well and discuss moral and working relationships.

 

[vestigare]

I think we need to consider if someone went into the swamp and their foot prints were immediately filled in we should see mud tracked on the ground from the escape route. A witness or witnesses who saw someone covered with mud to various parts of there body. When I was stuck in the swamp in Hampshire, my arms were filthy because I had to reach in and pull my shoes out. What are the odds three people escaping a crime scene who in a swampy area wouldn't fall at least once?

And, if there were three people there clearly only one pulled the trigger. What reason would the other two have to not come forward and make a deal and claim the reward? Agree to testify in exchange for immunity.

There are just so many improbable things that would have to happen for this to be a homicide, it just seems more likely someone would win the lottery and get struck by lightening in the same day.

I keep trying to figure out how three people were running into the swamp away from him but he managed to somehow get ambushed or catch up to at least one of them? But he was there for 20 minutes which means they either were sneaking around for 20 minutes prior to him seeing them or they had just showed up. So where does the task force think they showed up from that they just were visible to glinieiwicz and then saw him and started running away instantly?

And am I the only ones who have a problem with even if there were 3 people there that is nothing "suspicious" about being there that would require you to chase them down even if they ran. At least nothing that he himself didn't specify on the radio call.

 

[night train]

I keep trying to figure out how three people were running into the swamp away from him but he managed to somehow get ambushed or catch up to at least one of them? But he was there for 20 minutes which means they either were sneaking around for 20 minutes prior to him seeing them or they had just showed up. So where does the task force think they showed up from that they just were visible to glinieiwicz and then saw him and started running away instantly?

And am I the only ones who have a problem with even if there were 3 people there that is nothing "suspicious" about being there that would require you to chase them down even if they ran. At least nothing that he himself didn't specify on the radio call.

You could play devil's advocate for a homicide and hit you own question right out the ballpark...

 

[vestigare]

You could play devil's advocate for a homicide and hit you own question right out the ballpark...

What?

 

[Montjoy]

In my local precinct they only allow a few funeral trips to be paid for. But they do business on the paid for trips. They set up meeting with other precincts about issues that need to be resolved, like cold cases that are connected to both areas, or new policies or programs that both are implementing.

rsbm

I don't buy this. I'd like to see a source, if one is available. Amid a large funeral, with all of the planning, etc. that goes on, and given the limited time available for setting up meetings, much less attending them, I would be very surprised if this happens. How many days do LEOs actually travel for these funerals, I wonder? And does anyone really think that on the day of a funeral that LEOs will be having such meetings?

 

[katydid23]

Link please.

You can figure it out from the article I linked above. Most PDs do not pay for the officers expenses, it seems. Some do pay for some or a portion, but only for in state funerals. A few do send a couple of representatives to some out of state funerals, but the cost is minimal in terms of their budgets. Oakland , Ca sent officers to NYC, for example. Their operating budget is about 200million per year. So what percentage of 200 million is 10k? I get .05%


"Years ago, when OPD experienced the loss of four officers during one tragic incident, the NYPD sent a group of officers to the funeral of our fallen officers," Oakland police Chief Sean Whent said, referring to the March 21, 2009, killing of four Oakland police officers by a wanted felon during a traffic stop and subsequent ambush. "The tragic circumstances of the murders of those two NYPD officers deserved a similar show of respect from our department."

"Oakland sent four officers to one or the other New York funerals, using a total of 85 work hours between them, calculated at $4,587.60. Oakland also paid $5,357.74 for airfare, lodging and meals."

http://www.mercurynews.com/my-town/ci_28132932/should-taxpayers-foot-bill-send-cops-out-state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Police_Department

 

[katydid23]

rsbm

I don't buy this. I'd like to see a source, if one is available. Amid a large funeral, with all of the planning, etc. that goes on, and given the limited time available for setting up meetings, much less attending them, I would be very surprised if this happens. How many days do LEOs actually travel for these funerals, I wonder? And does anyone really think that on the day of a funeral that LEOs will be having such meetings?

Not on the day of the funeral.

 

[katydid23]

You know what would be really altruistic? They take that money they would have spent on attending some funeral whether it is from their own pockets, the Union or donations and they turn around and donate it to someone trying to get DNA tested or trying to get a cold case reopened. They can donate it in the name of the dead officer who's funeral they might have attended.
Then they can go on Skype for free and talk to all the other officers who would have gone to the funeral as well and discuss moral and working relationships.

If that is a plan that you like then by all means submit it to your local police commission. Meanwhile, other departments may decide to continue in the way that funerals have been done for hundreds of years. IN PERSON, at the gravesite. No skyping necessary.

 

[vestigare]

You can figure it out from the article I linked above. Most PDs do not pay for the officers expenses, it seems. Some do pay for some or a portion, but only for in state funerals. A few do send a couple of representatives to some out of state funerals, but the cost is minimal in terms of their budgets. Oakland , Ca sent officers to NYC, for example. Their operating budget is about 200million per year. So what percentage of 200 million is 10k? I get .05%


"Years ago, when OPD experienced the loss of four officers during one tragic incident, the NYPD sent a group of officers to the funeral of our fallen officers," Oakland police Chief Sean Whent said, referring to the March 21, 2009, killing of four Oakland police officers by a wanted felon during a traffic stop and subsequent ambush. "The tragic circumstances of the murders of those two NYPD officers deserved a similar show of respect from our department."

"Oakland sent four officers to one or the other New York funerals, using a total of 85 work hours between them, calculated at $4,587.60. Oakland also paid $5,357.74 for airfare, lodging and meals."

http://www.mercurynews.com/my-town/ci_28132932/should-taxpayers-foot-bill-send-cops-out-state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Police_Department

Your link does not site most PD's. You also can't use the numbers from one PD and apply it universally across the country.
I happen to know my local PD doesn't pay anything for funerals because they tried to get a budget passed with that pet project about 5 years ago and it was not allowed. They went for private donations and I inquired if anyone from the Honor Guard went to this funeral and the answer was no. Also no one went to the Moore funeral or the Goforth funeral. Nor the funerals in NYC last winter.

It seems when they foot their own bill they are a little more discriminatory on where they go. They did however use the funds to attend a more local funeral.

 

[katydid23]

rsbm

I don't buy this. I'd like to see a source, if one is available. Amid a large funeral, with all of the planning, etc. that goes on, and given the limited time available for setting up meetings, much less attending them, I would be very surprised if this happens. How many days do LEOs actually travel for these funerals, I wonder? And does anyone really think that on the day of a funeral that LEOs will be having such meetings?

You have no idea what officers do or don't do when planning to travel to another city. How do you know whether they have pending business, cold cases in common, etc. It is not that hard to kill two birds with one stone. Business leaders do it all the time.

 

[vestigare]

If that is a plan that you like then by all means submit it to your local police commission. Meanwhile, other departments may decide to continue in the way that funerals have been done for hundreds of years. IN PERSON, at the gravesite. No skyping necessary.

See my previous post about what my local PD tends to do with their money.

 

[Cubby]

So for ONE day the street was closed for several hours? And that is what the big issue is? You are saying what---no big funerals allowed for officers because of that?

This was more than a street being closed for several hours on one day. It was a week between the time of the shooting and the funeral. School were on lockdown and closed, the income from a big holiday weekend-which people rely on for their livelyhood was basically nil.

Personally, if this is proven to be a false report and determined a suicide, Lt. CG'S estate should be responsible for some of the financial costs.

And for the what, 100 thousand or so spent on overtime etc, I think it would be much better spent on suicide prevention for cops.

 

[katydid23]

Your link does not site most PD's. You also can't use the numbers from one PD and apply it universally across the country.
I happen to know my local PD doesn't pay anything for funerals because they tried to get a budget passed with that pet project about 5 years ago and it was not allowed. They went for private donations and I inquired if anyone from the Honor Guard went to this funeral and the answer was no. Also no one went to the Moore funeral or the Goforth funeral. Nor the funerals in NYC last winter.

It seems when they foot their own bill they are a little more discriminatory on where they go. They did however use the funds to attend a more local funeral.

Well then what are you worried about. Looks like your tax dollars are not being wasted on the needless worthless funerals of dead officers. I am sure you are relieved.

 

[katydid23]

This was more than a street being closed for several hours on one day. It was a week between the time of the shooting and the funeral. School were on lockdown and closed, the income from a big holiday weekend-which people rely on for their livelyhood was basically nil.

Personally, if this is proven to be a false report and determined a suicide, Lt. CG'S estate should be responsible for some of the financial costs.

And for the what, 100 thousand or so spent on overtime etc, I think it would be much better spent on suicide prevention for cops.

That was in reply to the NYC Officers funeral, not Fox Lake.

 

[vestigare]

You have no idea what officers do or don't do when planning to travel to another city. How do you know whether they have pending business, cold cases in common, etc. It is not that hard to kill two birds with one stone. Business leaders do it all the time.

Well.... common sense would say that the probability of those perfect circumstances lining up at just the right time in the right town during the right year that particular cop was having a funeral in that town when those other people would be present also to attend the meeting and with no forewarning that the cold cases were about to be discussed in a meeting would be well.... astronomical.

I suppose they could tell you they were doing other business. But how exactly would they have planned ahead for some cold case to be reopened in that particular town that also just happened to involve them when usually you don't even know more than a few days in advance of when or where a funeral will take place?

 

[vestigare]

That was in reply to the NYC Officers funeral, not Fox Lake.

Actually we were discussing all cop funerals being a drain on the locals and on tax payers. So it applies.
But they did shut down businesses/streets for hours for Gliniewicz's funeral and the town was also on lock down for days which also hurt local business which is another avenue touched upon by the Daily Herald Article.

 

[Montjoy]

Well.... common sense would say that the probability of those perfect circumstances lining up at just the right time in the right town during the right year that particular cop was having a funeral in that town when those other people would be present also to attend the meeting and with no forewarning that the cold cases were about to be discussed in a meeting would be well.... astronomical.

I suppose they could tell you they were doing other business. But how exactly would they have planned ahead for some cold case to be reopened in that particular town that also just happened to involve them when usually you don't even know more than a few days in advance of when or where a funeral will take place?

Not to mention I have no idea what sort of business would require face to face discussions, extra days in hotels, per diem expenses, time away from their local jobs (and possibly OT pay for those who are covering their shifts). It sounds like something drawn out of thin air to justify non-essential travel expenses.

And I don't think it's appropriate to compare public servants like LEOs to "business leaders", for what it's worth.