IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[oceanblueeyes]

In the Groene family case there was clear evidence of a murder immediately. More than a month later the authorities are still struggling to find anything to indicate this is a murder other than the radio call. Not one iota of evidence has been found to point away from this being a potential suicide. In so many words, Rudd was saying give me something, anything, to consider this a murder.

The point of my post is LE had no profile to go on (suspect unknown) when searching for the suspect as many other cases don't even have the information given by the LT but they eventually do find the killer without having any profile information

 

[vestigare]

I didn't follow it closely, but were there even 400 LEO involved involved in the manhunt for the two NY prison escapee's?

Yeah there were hundreds in and out but remember one of those guys had killed a cop. So they were again expending millions to catch someone who personally hurt one of them. There are dozens of escapees a year who don't warrant anywhere near this because they only killed a non -leo.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Google it. There are many instances where 400 leo didn't show up after a cop was killed.

And assuming every single case of a cop's death resulted in 400 leo turning out that imo is not acceptable because we do not have unlimited resources and they do not get to decide where those resources are spent.

Were these volunteers coming from other police agencies to assist a small town police department?

If so I don't think they would turn anyone away that wanted to assist in finding cop killers. As we know when a police officer dies in the line of duty they usually have more showing up at their funeral than most other groups. Its just what they do and who they are.

 

[vestigare]

Were these volunteers coming from other police agencies to assist a small town police department?

If so I don't think they would turn anyone away that wanted to assist in finding cop killers. As we know when a police officer dies in the line of duty they usually have more showing up at their funeral than most other groups. Its just what they do and who they are.

The feds were not volunteers. Anyone else even if they were volunteers were still using items paid for out of the budget. And if they got injured that was more money out of budget.

And they absoluelty can turn away volunteers and should if they will only hinder the investigation.

Yeah, I am well aware of the group mentality many in LE share.

 

[Cubby]

When I think of the lack of evidence in this case to support the radio call, I think of cases like Ethan Stacy, Aveion Lewis, Delano Wilson, Bryeon Hunter, Bianca Jones. It didn't take officers in any of these cases long to realize the story they were being fed didn't add up and they didn't continue to investigate the cases as if the story they were being fed was true. I think it makes people wonder, myself included, why this investigation is being handled so differently. Are the 9 unknown dna samples just an excuse to avoid the inevitable?

 

[al66pine]

....Also, having been on foot at the scene for 20 minutes prior to his dispatch call, there didn't seem to be an immediate threat, so he could have waited another 2 minutes for back-up to arrive. JMO

^ sbm I may have missed relevant info & now can't find link or timeline to verify. Fuzzy on details I've read.

1. Did Lt G arrive in car at that location 20 min before his radio call to dispatch?
How do we know? Did LE tell MSM - there was GPS verification. Eyewitness? Other? Link?

2. Was Lt G was on foot at that location for 20 min before his call to dispatch?
How do we know? Did LE tell MSM - there was GPS verification. Eyewitness? Other? Link?

Is it poss he drove to location, left by car, then returned to location by car?
Is it poss he drove to location, left on foot, then returned to location by car?

Azz-uming Lt G was there 20 min, & azz-uming the males existed, is it poss the 3 arrived 1 min (or 30 sec) before Lt G's call to dispatch? Is it poss - no immed threat when Lt G arrived & for 19 min, but on their arrival, he called, then something happened qiuckly, hence he did not wait for backup?

IDK.

 

[Keefer]

Do any of you remember the Stepen Ivens case? The FBI agent that went missing in l.a. When Obama was in town a couple years ago? They had a massive search for him. Couldn't find him. I think a year later they found him in an area that had been searched.

 

[vestigare]

Cubby,

I am replying this way because writing is acting weird.
I think the task force is trying hard to make this homicide because they don't want to be caught having screwed up so bad. This is potentially career ending. And because a fellow officer would have done something not totally acceptable, possibly illegal, and it damages his family.

They will continue to pull out dubious evidence hoping something sticks and so many people don't understand evidence so think what they are saying is conclusive evidence of homicide.

Heck, I probably have 9 unknown dna samples on my cell phone.

 

[Chuz Life]

I am not sure that is true. I believe LE did say they met with Rudd and the meeting went well.

It probably did go well.

It takes time to get forensic evidence back.

True enough.

LE said there was a struggle at the scene. I believe them.

Isn't it possible (given the Lt was on the scene for 20 minutes before he radioed in) that he had time to stage the scene and to make it look like there had been a struggle?

LE said the trackers tracked the scent of the suspect/s 1/4 mile away from the scene iirc.

That's incorrect. The report was that the dog followed the scent of the gun powder residue in that direction "later in the day" and "away from the Lt's gun."

Translation; the dog could have been following the direction that air currents carried the residue away or the dog could have been tracking the path that another officer took after walking through the scene.

LE said there is unknown DNA found at the scene. I believe them.

I don't doubt that dna was found. Unknown dna is everywhere. It's presence is not proof that the person that dna came from has committed a crime.

Sometimes justice doesn't move lightening fast but it does come just like it will come for the LT in due time.

Given that you obviously still think this was a homicide, do you have an opinion on why LE has downgraded the status of the unidentified three males from "suspects" to "persons of interest?"

And we don't know all the evidence they have which is common. IMO

I am always open to the consideration of new evidence. I think we all are.

 

[Keefer]

If the Feds were not volunteers, who ordered them to search?

 

[cady]

Are the 9 samples directly related to CG's body, clothing, equipment, squad car? If so, it is probably thorough investigating......but if they are not....uh uh. And are all 9 good enough samples for testing? Clearly, a most important one would be on the weapon. One would think that after a struggle for the weapon and two shots fired, that there would be SOMETHING there. JMO

 

[cady]

If the Feds were not volunteers, who ordered them to search?

I imagine they were requested, not ordered. JMO

 

[vestigare]

If the Feds were not volunteers, who ordered them to search?

Chain of command.
Most likely a result of some DHS alarm being triggered by the local LEO.

You would need to understand how the feds work to understand this without me writing a book on it. You can learn more by googling around.

Feds never volunteer. Their charter doesn't allow it.

 

[tcer114]

Oh my goodness. That has never crossed my mind since the LT said it was two white guy with the black guy. If you have kept up with any officer's death when LE believes the officer was murdered you would know everyone of them creates a massive manhunt to find the cop killer. Even though LE has been targeted recently I have never thought this was done simply because he wore the uniform. I think the three suspects didn't want to be arrested for some reason and all three physically overcame the LT taking his gun away and shooting him with his own gun they would already have in their hand.

Whites also kills cops and hundreds of whites are shot and killed every year by cops and most of them were criminals or ex-felons with a weapon in hand. So I don't see why they would think it was automatically a war on the men in blue just because one of the suspects happened to be black. LE is very aware that officers have been killed in the line of duty by whites and other races who weren't black.

I may have missed the posts but I haven't seen anyone say the massive response was due to one of the suspects being black. They would do a massive armed response no matter who may have shot the officer to death. There is nothing out of the norm with this manhunt than any other they do when they are looking for the murderer when an officer has been killed in the line of duty.

Are you saying they wouldn't have done this same massive manhunt for just the two white guys? Imo, they certainly would have. It is common knowledge when a officer is murdered in the line of duty it always includes a massive manhunt for the killer/s.

Unless you are saying the only ones that kills cops are blacks (which isn't true) I don't know what you base your opinion on that it would have been different? Are you saying if the suspects were all three white suspects that LE would have stood down and wouldn't have done a massive search for the suspects?

In all the police shootings that I have read about every law enforcement agency did massive manhunts looking for the suspects whether they were white, black, Latino or some other race. They had officers on the ground, helicopters in the air, and usually they bring in other agencies to assist.

Would you please give me an example where LE didn't do massive manhunts when searching for a cop killer?

IMO

You are so correct. Whenever a cop is killed they engage in a massive man hunt. If the timing is right, and I believe one of the first responders did hear a shot, there would be every reason to engage in a manhunt. First 48 hours, right? I am a local and I still am not questioning the manhunt because it MADE SENSE!
Anyone desperate enough to kill a cop is beyond dangerous. I would want LE to do all they could to catch them as quickly as possible. I would NOT want them to waste the opportunity because first they had to sit down with the coroner to determine if it was murder or suicide. Personally, alot of people were nervous and I think most felt better knowing LE were acting quickly. We all know there is a possibility it could be suicide but we have heard that over and over again. I much prefer to consider that it was a homicide and "sleuth" it out

 

[Cubby]

Cubby,

I am replying this way because writing is acting weird.
I think the task force is trying hard to make this homicide because they don't want to be caught having screwed up so bad. This is potentially career ending. And because a fellow officer would have done something not totally acceptable, possibly illegal, and it damages his family.

They will continue to pull out dubious evidence hoping something sticks and so many people don't understand evidence so think what they are saying is conclusive evidence of homicide.

Heck, I probably have 9 unknown dna samples on my cell phone.

Imagine going into a 7-11 and pouring a cup of coffee from the decanter or pushing a grocery cart in a store. I'm sure in either case people would have more than 9 unknown dna samples on their person. l

I'd think prolonging the investigation would be career ending. I don't blame them for taking the initiative they did when they first found him deceased. I wonder what evidence, if any, other than the radio call, do they currently have to indicate this might be a homicide?

 

[cady]

Alpine...I think all the relevant links are on thread3, probably easier to just google re: GPS Gliniewicz investigation. I wondered about how they knew he was on foot, too. Someone said that it was confirmed by GPS also (his radio?). Anyway, it was definitely reported by MSM. JMO

 

[vestigare]

Imagine going into a 7-11 and pouring a cup of coffee from the decanter or pushing a grocery cart in a store. I'm sure in either case people would have more than 9 unknown dna samples on their person. l

I'd think prolonging the investigation would be career ending. I don't blame them for taking the initiative they did when they first found him deceased. I wonder what evidence, if any, other than the radio call, do they currently have to indicate this might be a homicide?

I think they are just really bad investigators. They have one piece of evidence which is the three suspects and they are building everything else on that. When in reality those three people could have existed, been there, and still have nothing to do with his death. It is how many in LE investigate and it is very frustrating to me to see how illogical it is.

 

[cady]

Imagine going into a 7-11 and pouring a cup of coffee from the decanter or pushing a grocery cart in a store. I'm sure in either case people would have more than 9 unknown dna samples on their person. l

I'd think prolonging the investigation would be career ending. I don't blame them for taking the initiative they did when they first found him deceased. I wonder what evidence, if any, other than the radio call, do they currently have to indicate this might be a homicide?

The new claim that there is evidence of a struggle..............not for us peons to worry our pretty little heads off as to why it took them a month to come up with this, or why Rudd did not know about it or what it is. JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

Alpine...I think all the relevant links are on thread3, probably easier to just google re: GPS Gliniewicz investigation. I wondered about how they knew he was on foot, too. Someone said that it was confirmed by GPS also (his radio?). Anyway, it was definitely reported by MSM. JMO

I have a background in electronics myself and that report did kind of throw me at first. Then I realized that there might have been two GPS units involved. One in his car and the other on his phone.

My question - how far did the investigators go to collect that information? I don't have a smart phone myself (yet.) So, I don't know whether or not there are apps that might have tracked the Lt's movements while on foot. If so, that would be a huge piece of information to see.

At this point, we know he had his phone on him because it was partially damaged by one of the two shots. We don't know if it had gps on it and enabled. . . so we can only speculate about that.

I just know that it is technically "possible" to know he was out "on foot."

 

[vestigare]

Wanted to add they got one hundred new leads between this last presser and one before. 300 vs 400

Maybe the next one will be 500. They always want to make sure we know they keep getting leads and more leads and more rocks to turn over.