IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

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  • #341
I've never wanted to know the truth about a case more than I do concerning this one!

Also, the case of an American, Jim Thompson, who disappeared into thin air, while on holiday in Malaysia, on Easter Sunday, 1967. Layers of mystery and intrigue surround his case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thompson_(designer)
 
  • #342
Facts can be interpreted many ways and often are, according to one's own biases. If someone dislikes the police and believes they are corrupt then they may see one set of facts differently than someone who has faith in the police. JMO

I think this is a correct assessment to some degree, but I don't think it's fair to break the views into DISLIKE POLICE/vs/HAVE FAITH IN POLICE

I think that most people in this thread (and hopefully in general, I mean it's not like rooting for opposing sports teams. Right?) are assessing the released information from the point of view of having seen/experienced/read about previous police corruption and investigative cover-ups or mishandling Or on the other hand from having seen/experienced/read about a lot of great police work and excellent investigations.

One would hope nobody's interpretation of the facts as presented so far here are being modulated through either one's irrational blind hatred of the Police or slavish hero worship of them.
 
  • #343
I'm sorry but I can't discount my own experiences and knowledge just because an investigator has more access to some of the details and evidence. And I'm not going to compromise common sense and ability to draw from those experiences to give someone a pass on what I know to be dis-information or hype.

Thank you. I suspect this is precisely what this task force is hoping however.
 
  • #344
I think you quoted the wrong post.
But I don't personally believe she believes this is homicide. Just a hunch I have.
But even if she did believe she doesn't get to say who investigates. So she can complain but it just makes her look like she favors certain people because they give her what she wants.

So, no human nature allowed?
Until further notice, I'm choosing the middle ground.
 
  • #345
BBM

It seems reasonable that would be enough to have made the decedent extremely vulnerable to a 2nd targeted short.

But we don't know if he was wearing the vest when the first shot hit. If the first shot was a full impact. Nor how quickly the second shot happened. We also would have additional evidence in that case as well as exclusion of evidence in that case, However the evidence we do have all still points to suicide.

There are a million what ifs that I just refuse to go into because there is no evidence to support them.
 
  • #346
So, no human nature allowed?
Until further notice, I'm choosing the middle ground.

I didn't say she was not allowed human nature. In fact I understand people react differently. I am usually one of those who fights against the entire "he acted guilty because he didn't grieve right" complaints you so often hear.

But I do know you have to allow for what other people will think about your actions. So I think smart people realize this and behave accordingly. Especially when doing an interview.
 
  • #347
Addressing the 20 minutes at location again.

Now when I look at it from the perspective of this not being a suicide, how does the 20 minutes of being at the location and walking around fit?

It is quite a different thought process than what I originally had been led to believe, that Lt CG was doing a routine patrol and came across three unknown individuals who fled when he approached.

Why was he there, on foot, walking around? As well as where was he walking? I don’t believe this would be considered a normal patrol especially before a shift is to start and the time of day that it was. Was he there because someone told him to specifically go to a certain part of that property to investigate something? (Maybe the Mayor from the day before?) Or was he there on his own, and if so, I would think it would be to look for something specific.

Either way, where was he walking to? (I’m going to guess that because his car was at the gate he spent his time on the other side of it and wouldn’t walk back down Honing). Did he walk down and around the road all the way to the plant building? It would have been much easier for him to access off of Rollins.

Did he stay along the fence line and head south to the cabin? There doesn’t seem to be a lot of areas that he could have been walking around in, too much of it was swamp, etc.

So if he is in the area and then spots the three individuals “by the equipment”, which I believe is the equipment just inside the gate on both sides of the gravel road, where would he be at this point?

If he is found at a point where he would have been pursuing them they would have been running from the “equipment” “towards the swamp” which would have been mostly east, a little south. So Lt CG wouldn’t have been east of them when he saw them (they wouldn’t run towards him), and he couldn’t have been west of them (unless he did walk west of his car down Honing, which I don’t believe makes sense), so he would have either been south by the cabin or way north-northeast by the cement plant.

And these three people wouldn’t have just happened upon this location. They would have most like been familiar with it, most likely having been there before. And if they were running away from LE they wouldn’t just run “into” the swamp. I’m sure there are paths through the higher areas that they knew of and were somewhat confident that they would be able to use to get away.

So one thing that seems really odd to me is that his car was parked by the gate, he was somewhere, and he spots them by the “equipment” which is 30-40 yards from his police car. It would have been impossible for them to not see his car at this point. Maybe they didn’t see him but saw the car and started to head towards the swamp??

I’m having a lot of trouble making any of this scenario adding up.

Would love to know what that cabin is all about and if there were ever any problems there before.
 
  • #348
So at this point is all we have left right now is a waiting game to see what (if any) information is released in regards to the ballistics/testing the and mapping the probable trajectory of both shots along with additional information about whether any prints/DNA were found on the gun other than CG's? I'm trying to invent some scenarios that *aren't* suicide, but without any info that could help do so (what were the signs of struggle, where/how was the body found/why was the gun thought to be missing/what was the exact timeline) I'm stuck.
 
  • #349
bbm
in my post i said more information than anyone here. And yes he does. He's the head of the task force. My point is that every time new information is released, there are certain people that disregard it because it doesn't fit with their suicide theory.

What would happen if the next batch of information stated that there were nobody's fingerprints on LTs gun. Would that mean he wiped his gun to cover his suicide? That's an example of the direction some posters in this thread have gone.

Felinko has lost my respect and trust because of the way he has conducted himself and contradicted himself. For example, he angrily blasted Dr Rudd for releasing very general information regarding the death because it could undermine the entire investigation. Weeks later, he has finally confirmed the accuracy of Rudd's statements and released even greater details. What has changed in the "investigation" that makes it ok to now release this info? How could his previous statements logically be truthful?

It is healthy and logical to question authority. If they are acting honestly, competently, and in the best interest of those they serve, they should have no difficulty or hesitance to answer questions appropriately with transparency or a sufficient explanation to justify withholding information.
 
  • #350
And if he was there for twenty minutes walking around what evidence do they have to prove that? Not footprints as Filenko for all snarky about that suggestion.

So was it gps? If so then they know exactly what direction he was walking, looking, suspicious of. Was it other evidence? Did he take a leak out there, smoke a cig?

How do they justify that he stumbled on some suspicious people who noticed him enough to run away but didn't see his car?

It requires them to explain quite a few things.
 
  • #351
Felinko has lost my respect and trust because of the way he has conducted himself and contradicted himself. For example, he angrily blasted Dr Rudd for releasing very general information regarding the death because it could undermine the entire investigation. Weeks later, he has finally confirmed the accuracy of Rudd's statements and released even greater details. What has changed in the "investigation" that makes it ok to now release this info? How could his previous statements logically be truthful?

It is healthy and logical to question authority. If they are acting honestly, competently, and in the best interest of those they serve, they should have no difficulty or hesitance to answer questions appropriately with transparency or a sufficient explanation to justify withholding information.
I question their intelligence because of these contradictions. Even refused to answer the gun shot residue on his hands, but said suicide was still on the table then turned around a week later and said gun shot residue was in his hands but inconclusive.

Wth? They are just so illogical or just really really bad at reading their audience.
Like you I can't trust anything he says anymore.
 
  • #352
So at this point is all we have left right now is a waiting game to see what (if any) information is released in regards to the ballistics/testing the and mapping the probable trajectory of both shots along with additional information about whether any prints/DNA were found on the gun other than CG's? I'm trying to invent some scenarios that *aren't* suicide, but without any info that could help do so (what were the signs of struggle, where/how was the body found/why was the gun thought to be missing/what was the exact timeline) I'm stuck.

I try to get unstuck too. I just can't work it. Nothing they have provided says homicide yet they keep providing it obviously because they think it should convince us while they still keep suicide in the table themselves?

Stuck....
 
  • #353
It is healthy and logical to question authority. If they are acting honestly, competently, and in the best interest of those they serve, they should have no difficulty or hesitance to answer questions appropriately with transparency or a sufficient explanation to justify withholding information.

Exactly right.
 
  • #354
Lets focus on the 2 shots fired at the LT.

1st shot into the vest:
Now stand up.....ready?... Imagine a sledge hammer hitting you aprox 4 inches to the right of your belly button. What does your body do? Bend over and lean a little to the right. You would also lose grip of the your gun as this was stated an an incapacitating blow. As your body is bending downward and to the right, where is that gun pointed now? At the left area above the vest at a downward angle into the center of the chest.

Second shot: devastating.

Now look at the motion your body is in. You would hit the ground face down. (which has not been confirmed as far as I know)

Theoretically possible BUT in this case the known facts paint a different picture:
1) the shell casings from the 2 shots were 100 feet apart so your scenario is very unlikely
2) the bullet from the fatal shot was recovered from Lt G's body. The bullet from the shot to the vest was not recovered, thus it was a glancing shot. If you watched the video earlier that demonstrated a 40 caliber direct impact you will notice that the bullet is embedded in the vest and recovered. Even this direct impact was clearly not "incapacitating". If Felinko claims the impact was like a sledgehammer, the autopsy results would substantiate this so he could easily verify his claim by releasing the section of the report upon which he based his statement.
3) both shots had a trajectory and proximity consistent with self infliction or else suicide would have been ruled out. I have a hard time picturing both shots being fired by another person and still meeting this criteria.
4) you describe a life & death struggle yet it took LE a month before they finally offer vaugue statements claiming that there were "signs of a struggle" but offer no further details.
5) gun powder residue patterns would be significantly different in suicide vs any other scenario. Hopefully they conducted these more sophisticated and discerning tests(especially since they took so long and required special labs and equipment!) rather than a simple swab to determine present or not present.
 
  • #355
I have spent a great deal of time listening back on the scanner archives from that day, caved and bought a membership to radio reference . Specifically, the Lake County Sheriff scanner. Still much to go but I will say there is legitimacy in things we have been told, even much later on, that some have been skeptical about. There were medical issues due to heat with the dogs. Dogs did get a track. A warning was sent out for caution for anyone if they go into the swamp, they will go under. (I thought that was intresting) I won't post anything in detail specifically because I know this isn't the scanner thread and I am working on notes to post there. I will say listening to it I don't find anything skeptical or underhanded in what was done. They did their job that they are paid to do and I was surprised how fast they actually did get it together even though it was mentioned even in that, was concern they got out of that area. I really believed they covered their bases in the best way possible. As a taxpayer I wouldn't be mad about the cost in the response because it is what it is irregardless. The conversation and tone feels very anti-LE. I know there are some departments that are not on the up and up. I have had experience and great frustration in that realm in the past. However, I am just not feeling that here, JMO. LE is darned if you do and darned if they don't. They can't please everyone. In fact, had this case not been as high profile as it started out, the demand might not be as intense and they would be left to work their investigation like many cases where we hear nothing for months and then one day there is an arrest made. I know thats not always case but no two cases are exactly alike to another in details, facts and circumstances.

I talked to my brother this evening who briefly spoke with a family member who has a business literally a stones throw from the scene. He didn't get to talk long but he did garner that they do believe it is a homicide, and this fm volunteers with some leo in the area who are also firm this is indeed a homicide. Just passing along the info.

I also have an additional thought to why suicide is on the table as not being ruled out, if in fact there is enough evidence to prove a homicide. I think LT. G wife mentioning about Rudd being an elected official and the fact that the task force did ask the pathologist, the person who performed the autopsy, to not release any information. This was in an earlier article. Rudd in turn goes on the record saying his "feelings are hurt" and blah blah. Reminds me of those who always want to be in front of the camera that I have encountered in the past. Rudd, who remember at the time, HAS NO INFORMATION about the investigation can't rule on the manner of death. While I don't agree with punishment politics, on either end of the spectrum, I have to wonder if the task force is keeping this in limbo aka on the table to later prove a point about Rudd with the family in the loop due to the actions Rudd took by speaking out, which sounded like a bruised ego, especially since by his own accord, he had not spoken to the task force. I would have to question how much Rudd attempted to speak to them before going to the press? Had it been a feeble attempt, I would be pissed as well, which could explain the harsh response from Filenko. Just a theory anyway.
 
  • #356
I have spent a great deal of time listening back on the scanner archives from that day, caved and bought a membership to radio reference . Specifically, the Lake County Sheriff scanner. Still much to go but I will say there is legitimacy in things we have been told, even much later on, that some have been skeptical about. There were medical issues due to heat with the dogs. Dogs did get a track. A warning was sent out for caution for anyone if they go into the swamp, they will go under. (I thought that was intresting) I won't post anything in detail specifically because I know this isn't the scanner thread and I am working on notes to post there. I will say listening to it I don't find anything skeptical or underhanded in what was done. They did their job that they are paid to do and I was surprised how fast they actually did get it together even though it was mentioned even in that, was concern they got out of that area. I really believed they covered their bases in the best way possible. As a taxpayer I wouldn't be mad about the cost in the response because it is what it is irregardless. The conversation and tone feels very anti-LE. I know there are some departments that are not on the up and up. I have had experience and great frustration in that realm in the past. However, I am just not feeling that here, JMO. LE is darned if you do and darned if they don't. They can't please everyone. In fact, had this case not been as high profile as it started out, the demand might not be as intense and they would be left to work their investigation like many cases where we hear nothing for months and then one day there is an arrest made. I know thats not always case but no two cases are exactly alike to another in details, facts and circumstances.

I talked to my brother this evening who briefly spoke with a family member who has a business literally a stones throw from the scene. He didn't get to talk long but he did garner that they do believe it is a homicide, and this fm volunteers with some leo in the area who are also firm this is indeed a homicide. Just passing along the info.

I also have an additional thought to why suicide is on the table as not being ruled out, if in fact there is enough evidence to prove a homicide. I think LT. G wife mentioning about Rudd being an elected official and the fact that the task force did ask the pathologist, the person who performed the autopsy, to not release any information. This was in an earlier article. Rudd in turn goes on the record saying his "feelings are hurt" and blah blah. Reminds me of those who always want to be in front of the camera that I have encountered in the past. Rudd, who remember at the time, HAS NO INFORMATION about the investigation can't rule on the manner of death. While I don't agree with punishment politics, on either end of the spectrum, I have to wonder if the task force is keeping this in limbo aka on the table to later prove a point about Rudd with the family in the loop due to the actions Rudd took by speaking out, which sounded like a bruised ego, especially since by his own accord, he had not spoken to the task force. I would have to question how much Rudd attempted to speak to them before going to the press? Had it been a feeble attempt, I would be pissed as well, which could explain the harsh response from Filenko. Just a theory anyway.

Thank you for such a well thought out response and for all of your research. I am looking forward to reading your notes in the scanner thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #357
How much more obvious could he make it then if he was trying to fake his murder (masking suicide), to choose to do it the day after he became eligible for the greater percentage retirement.
Oh, let's see, I'll kill myself the day after I hit 30 years - no one will ever question why or wonder about the timing. Really?

Talk about drawing attention to suspicious details surrounding one's fake murder.
Maybe something was wrong with his brain if that's the case.


I don't think it was the day before. The funeral home obit stated he started working for the FLPD in 1985. He would have reached the 30 year threshold this year. We don't the exact day, but I am assuming it was fairly recent and he had started toying with the idea of retirement. Remember, there was no paperwork or anything official with regards to his giving notice of his retirement.
 
  • #358
I don't think it was the day before. The funeral home obit stated he started working for the FLPD in 1985. He would have reached the 30 year threshold this year. We don't the exact day, but I am assuming it was fairly recent and he had started toying with the idea of retirement. Remember, there was no paperwork or anything official with regards to his giving notice of his retirement.

IIRC, it was in April. It is in one of the links I posted with the Village Agenda minutes. They even read an excerpt of his 30 year speech he gave earlier in the year after his death.
 
  • #359
I didn't say she was not allowed human nature. In fact I understand people react differently. I am usually one of those who fights against the entire "he acted guilty because he didn't grieve right" complaints you so often hear.

But I do know you have to allow for what other people will think about your actions. So I think smart people realize this and behave accordingly. Especially when doing an interview.

I understand why Rudd used the "S" word, as part of saying in effect that in light of the knowledge he had, all options were on the table .Unfortunately this occurred relatively early in the family's grieving process and many MSM sources did not communicate Rudd's statement objectively, they disproportionately emphasized the suicide angle opening the floodgates of bitter cynicism that may always be counted on from the cheap seats.

I think Melodie Gliniewicz is deserving of our understanding.
 
  • #360
I have a question. Looking for feedback.

Let's throw a few scenarios based on the information we know.

We know his weapon was recovered on the scene.

What would be your thoughts on manner of death if we were able to reference how far away and location of where his weapon was found? Based on the locations of his wounds.

Scenario One: 1 foot from his head (using theory he was found face down)
Scenario Two: 2 feet from his head (using theory he was found face down)
Scenario Three: 3 feet from his head (using theory he was found face down)
Scenario Four: 4 feet from his head (using theory he was found face down)

Would any of the four scenarios in the distances given, make any difference to any particular theories?
 
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