IL IL - Timmothy Fry-Pitzen, 6, Aurora, 13 May 2011 - mom found dead - #1

[Cubby]

Also, thinking back to the 'concerning' amounts of Timmy's blood in the car, which LE mentions could have been due to a previous nose bleed.

What did the mechanics who repaired the car the day they were at the Zoo have to say? Did they notice any blood in the truck while it was in their possession being repaired?

 

[blazelet]

Do we know whether it was a lot of dried up blood or was it remnants of a large quantity of cleaned up blood?

It seems unlikely to me that she would kill him, write a note saying he was ok and with safe people, and then leave fresh blood all over the car ...

I also feel like if it was dried up fresh blood that had not been touched, can't they get a date on that?

I wish they would be more clear about this.

 

[cluciano63]

To me, the blood is too much of a coincidence if Timmy is alive and well somewhere...also I just don't believe that there are people, easily met, out there who will take a child and then hide them from LE when the child is shown to be missing, possibly dead. But that is just my opinion.

 

[blazelet]

To me, the blood is too much of a coincidence if Timmy is alive and well somewhere...also I just don't believe that there are people, easily met, out there who will take a child and then hide them from LE when the child is shown to be missing, possibly dead. But that is just my opinion.

This goes back to the question, was the blood like dried crusty blood or was it traces of cleaned blood. If she was hiding her tracks and wanting to convince people he was ok I don't think she would have left a lot of blood. Also the family didn't know if it was from the nosebleed or not. I would assume that was probably cleaned up, as you wouldn't just leave lots of blood in a car like that, and then when the police found traces of large quantities of cleaned up blood they weren't sure where it came from ... but that's all jmo.

The people who might have him don't necessarily have to have ill intent they may just not know.

 

[cluciano63]

This goes back to the question, was the blood like dried crusty blood or was it traces of cleaned blood. If she was hiding her tracks and wanting to convince people he was ok I don't think she would have left a lot of blood. Also the family didn't know if it was from the nosebleed or not. I would assume that was probably cleaned up, as you wouldn't just leave lots of blood in a car like that, and then when the police found traces of large quantities of cleaned up blood they weren't sure where it came from ... but that's all jmo.

The people who might have him don't necessarily have to have ill intent they may just not know.

But where do these desperate people find such people? Just like the other case with the three little boys missing, where on earth are we supposed to believe that man found someone willing to take three young children, and not think there is anything amiss? I just don't believe it, wish I did.

 

[katydid23]

My son used to have terrible nose bleeds when he was growing up, but we never had old dried blood in the car. That is something you usually catch as it is bleeding,and if some spills it is cleaned up quickly. I cannot believe someone would leave it all over the car. To me, if there was a lot of blood, it would probably be coming from a gushing wound or something that is hard to catch and clean up. especially if she was having mental issues at the time.

 

[blazelet]

@Katydid : That's why I question if it was actually dried up old blood. Think of it this way : mom covers the tracks of where she went by disposing of phone, ipass, and then leaves a suicide note saying her son is fine and with people. You wouldn't cover your tracks like that and make a statement such as that if you had fresh blood all over your car.

It could have been dried up blood consistent with the amount of a nose bleed, which is why they didn't know if it was from the nose bleed or not. Or it could be a large amount of wiped down blood. In my mind those are the 2 scenarios that fit. Either way it's not a smoking gun. I work at a TV station - our bread and butter is ratings. The more we can hyper inflate our ratings, the more money we make. Even if it was a few drops of blood we would seize on it and make it the lead story. Police should have been more clear when they use the word 'concerning' ... in the absence of information people assume the worst, and right now we have a complete abesence of information outside of the inflamatory part - there was blood.

@Cluciano : She had obviously been planning for at least 6 months, making multiple trips to the region. As I posted before, there are multiple possibilities that explain where he could be if he is in fact with someone (which is not something I'm convinced of).

This is very different than the Skelton case for a few reasons. First, John skelton obviously has been trying to torture his wife throughout the whole ordeal. He enjoys inflicting pain on her as seen in the last trial. That's motive. He has written poems about killing boys. He did internet research on breaking necks. His story changed 3 or 4 times and each time became more wild. He had a motive.

Amy Pitzen may have had a motive to harm Timothy, but up to this point I haven't heard it.

All obviously jmo. I wish we had more facts. I wish we had Timothy.

 

[Cubby]

Amy Pitzen may have had a motive to harm Timothy, but up to this point I haven't heard it.

Respectfully snipped. If I may respectfully ask. If Amy had planned to take her own life, is there a reason you believe she may not have chosen to end her sons life in order to spare him the emotional pain of losing his mother, by his mothers choice?

Losing a parent is extremely difficult for a young child, by either accident or illness. It may have been possible Timmy's father and family could have kept the manner of his mothers death from him for a period of time, but certainly not indefinately.

Amy was clearly suffering terribly if she chose to take her own life. In her state of mind, while suicide is not comprehendable to most of us, I can imagine her believing she was saving Timmy from the same kind of emotional pain and mental illness she was suffering from. Especially if there is a history of mental illness within the family which has not been made public. While I am no expert, I think more often than not, mental illness does run in families. I can also see her wishing to keep her family from knowing she was capable of harming Timmy, thus planning well in advance a place to hide him.

If she had done something along the lines of killing each of them together, say by driving her SUV into a river or lake, the possiblity exists both would be found. She may have realized prior to making her decison accident investigators could have reconstructed the accident scene indicating there was no mechanical reason for such an accident. Perhaps that ruled out that option for her.

The one thing we can say for certain, is the ground was still frozen when she made her February and March trips, so it is unlikely she prepared a grave which would have required digging for him at that time.

As horrible as the above is to consider, I think it does need to be considered. Especially knowing there is such a wide range of area's she could have traveled many of which are very rural and probably not inhabited for enormous stretches.

I do pray he is found, hopefully safe, but I think as time goes on the chances of that become slimmer.

jmvho

 

[Cubby]

Regarding the blood and nosebleeds. If Timmy had suffered nosebleeds wouldn't there be some kind of record of such from his pediatrician? I'd imagine this would have been brought to Timmy's pediatricians attention either during a well being check or sick visit.

Nosebleeds are virtually never dangerous and the blood loss is almost always minimal

Causes of nosebleeds.

• Nose picking – this irritates the nose and exposes blood vessels that can easily be scratched open.
• Trauma – getting hit in the nose often causes bleeding. This doesn't mean the nose is broken or anything serious has happened.
• Sinus infection, nasal allergies, or a bad cold – severe nasal congestion and irritation can cause bleeding.
• Dry air – this dries out the nasal lining and can be irritating, especially in a heated room.
• Bacterial infection or impetigo – the nasal lining just inside the nose past where the skin ends is susceptible to infection from bacteria. It causes a red, sore, crusty area just inside the nose and on the skin in the front of the nostrils. Bacteria can irritate this area even without an obvious sore, crusty patch.
• Blood clotting problems – this is rare and seldom worth checking for unless your doctor has a concern about this possibility.

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/childhood-illnesses/nosebleeds

Again, with HIPAA, LE can obtain a subpoena and request medical information when it pertains to a missing persons case or criminal case.

During the winter months it gets pretty dry in this area. Especially in homes without a humidifier.

I too wish they would explain "concerning" amount of blood. There is no indication from LE there was enough blood to determine the vehicle as being a crime scene, at least not one that has been released to the public. Nor has LE indicated they believe enough blood existed to believe it was life threatening.

I sure wish there was more info available and I wish so badly Timmy could be found.

Where could he possibly be?

 

[blazelet]

Respectfully snipped. If I may respectfully ask. If Amy had planned to take her own life, is there a reason you believe she may not have chosen to end her sons life in order to spare him the emotional pain of losing his mother, by his mothers choice?

I appreciate your thoughts as always, Cubby.

I can't pretend to fully understand the mind of a pre-meditated suicidal individual. That being said, sparing someone emotional pain by murdering them seems extreme. Amy had multiple previous suicide attempts and never murdered her son in those.

I agree with you, chances get slimmer as time goes by. Continued prayers.

 

[MarthaM]

I actually have more hope now that he's still alive, and that's unusual for me. Usually, as time passes I start thinking the opposite way. But somehow this case just feels different. I feel like she knew someone out in NW IL or in IA that she visited on those unexplained trips, and that those trips had to do with where she was going to leave Timmothy. I think she was planning her suicide for a long long time, but somehow I can't see her planning his death, too. I think there's something in her past that no one knows about except those who have him.

Or I could be completely wrong. *sigh*

I keep looking at maps and trying to think where she could have gone on those trips during the time until she returned through that last toll plaza. I feel like there are clues there that I just can't grab onto.

Early on I thought of the Amish communities as a possibility, but I wonder about some other religious tie? I see her funeral was held at a LDS church, so maybe that's a better connection. And I'm thinking that she gave him to someone who left the area with him, which could also explain why no one has come forward.

Grasping at straws here.

 

[obody]

To some extent I can understand the mindset of murdering someone to "protect" them - from the world, from the loss of their mom, from whatever.

What I don't understand is hiding it. You hide a murder when you don't want to get caught, which isn't going to happen if you are killing yourself.

I wonder how often there are murder suicides where the murder is hidden?

 

[Cubby]

An LDS connection might be feasible. It's possible whomever she gave Timmy too, if he is alive, was taken out of the country. Thinking along the lines of the Miller Jenkins case in which Lisa Miller abucted her child to (believed to be) Venezuela. Maybe a long shot but possible. Depending on Amy's religious practices or beliefs in the months preceeding her death.

I don't know how many murder suicides exist with the murder hidden. I can think of many cases in which a parent murdered a child and the missing child is presumed deceased, where a parent does not tell.

If I may explain a little more on my theory regarding hiding the murder and protecting him from emotional pain. Every parent hurts to see their child hurt. A person in the midst of mental illness has to feel grave emotional pain and be of the mindset they are incapable of seeing things can get better. I've suffered depression. Never to the point I was going to hurt myself or my child. However, I do recall a several month stretch (years ago) when it took all my energy to pull myself from the draw of wanting to sleep due to the depression. It got so bad my physical symptoms were not just exhaustion, but my muscles literally ached - it felt like pins and needles, similiar to, but not exactly like a part of the body falling asleep.

I can 'see' someone with mental health issues believing their child suffers from, or would suffer the same emotional turmoil they as an adult do with untreated or not succesfully treated mental illness.

Also, as far as has been made public Amy's previous suicide attempts were prior to her marriage to Timmy's father and prior to Timmy's birth. She very well may have felt if she was not going to be there to be his mother, she had to make sure he would not be motherless without her as his mom.

I could very well be wrong. It is difficult to comprehend or imagine a situation where she wouldn't wish for both of them to be together. I wish we had a verified psychologist or psychiatrist who could chime in with more thoughts on this.

jmo

 

[Cubby]

I had forgotten there is a small airport in Rockford. I wonder if LE checked the outgoing flights for that Friday or got the missing persons flyer/info to those employees who worked at the airport that Friday. IIRC there aren't many carriers or daily flights that fly out of there, but the the airport is fairly large. Maybe a long shot but it is possible she passed Timmy off to someone who flew him rather than drove him out of the area.

Chicago Rockford International Airport.
http://www.flyrfd.com/

 

[LongTallTexan]

The results from additional tests on the blood from the back seat should have concluded by now, I think it was last week they expected the results, yet I've seen nothing.

I still cannot believe this case:
1) Now, with the trips in Mar/Apr, I believe what she did was planned.
2) I think he's alive.
3) I think she wanted some sort of revenge toward the husband/father.
4) I think she had issues and couldn't see a way out (as Cubby put more eloquently).
5) I cannot believe there is not a shred of evidence that has been found that would locate Timmothy.

VERY SAD!

 

[cocomod]

Were SAR dogs used in the searches for Timothy?

 

[MarthaM]

The results from additional tests on the blood from the back seat should have concluded by now, I think it was last week they expected the results, yet I've seen nothing.

I still cannot believe this case:
1) Now, with the trips in Mar/Apr, I believe what she did was planned.
2) I think he's alive.
3) I think she wanted some sort of revenge toward the husband/father.
4) I think she had issues and couldn't see a way out (as Cubby put more eloquently).
5) I cannot believe there is not a shred of evidence that has been found that would locate Timmothy.

VERY SAD!

I agree with your five points, except maybe #3. I think it's possible, but I'm not convinced on that one yet. The 'why' will be the hardest part to figure out if he ever is found.

 

[blazelet]

As I am a practicing member of the LDS church I wanted to speak to that connection for a second.

The LDS Church has 13 articles of faith, core beliefs they live by. The 12th is :

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. As a core pincipal of the church I feel if she had church connections in these areas they would not illegally harbor Timothy ... granted there will always be people who don't adhere strictly to the teachings of the church.

Secondly. I am not certain Amy was a practicing member if a member at all. LDS Churches offer free funeral services to non members as well as free use of their church buildings to those in need. I know that Timothy's father drinks alcohol and coffee, both which are strictly prohibited by the LDS faith. Unless she was married to a non member, which is somewhat unusual if you're practicing, I really find myself wondering if she was LDS herself.

 

[Cubby]

blazelet -

Do you think it is possible an LDS member might harbor Timmy illegally if Amy was able to convince them Timmy's father was detrimental to the churchs religious beliefs if he was left to raise him? I ask this solely, because in another case involving parental abduction the abducting parent was able to get a lot of assistance from the church due to extreme differences in religious beliefs between the two parents.

In this case is it possible they went this route because differences in religious beliefs would not be a reason the courts would find legitimate to deny access to a remaining parent? That is really the only scenario I can see any religous 'fanatic' breaking the law. (fanatic for lack of better word as all religions have them.)

 

[blazelet]

Cubby,

From a typical member I would say that's improbable because of the Church's emphasis on family and law. But there are all types of people in a church of 12 million - I know people who are a bit more extremist in their views and interpret church doctrine differently - so it's not impossible.

I would really like to find out if Amy was a practicing LDS church member, has anyone seen anything on that? Her having funeral services at an LDS church doesn't necessarily mean she was LDS ... as we have non LDS services at our church from time to time.