Ill. students lose diplomas over cheers

[Paladin]

This rule wouldn't be much of a deterrant if someone wasn't made an example of, now would it? The same goes for the death penalty. Some moron kills someone, gets executed. Hopefully when someone goes to murder someone, they stop, and think "Hey, I could DIE if I go through with this and get caught. I better not do it."

Hopefully the same goes for these chuckleheads who like to whoop it up at graduations like it's the Arsenio Hall show.

 

[CyberLaw]

I am loathe to inform you, but some people are not going to behave just because you ask them to or want them to. When Uncle Charlie pulls out his air horn and blasts away, what are Mom and Dad going to do. Wrestle Uncle Charlie to the ground and take it away. Whenever you have public gatherings, they many be trouble. That is why I am all for to limit the numbers, and make it an immediate family affair. Then if Dad, for example acts, up he can incur the wrath of Mom and the graduate.

 

[nanandjim]

The students still graduated the just didn't get there diploma which is only a piece of paper given as a momento. It is not like they weren't made aware of the consequence before had. The people that attended the graduation had to sign a paper understanding what the consequence would be and they chose to do this anyway. I can tell you if I was aparent attending my childs graduation and was unable to hear their name read due to the rudeness of others I would be upset. Have you ever been in a situation where there are certain people who cheer so loud, blow air horns ect.... It's ridiculous this is a graduation not a football game.

Don't the "real" diplomas come in the mail? I think that I received a blank piece of paper at my college graduation. My real diploma was mailed to me a few weeks later.

 

[JBean]

I am loathe to inform you, but some people are not going to behave just because you ask them to or want them to. When Uncle Charlie pulls out his air horn and blasts away, what are Mom and Dad going to do. Wrestle Uncle Charlie to the ground and take it away. Whenever you have public gatherings, they many be trouble. That is why I am all for to limit the numbers, and make it an immediate family affair. Then if Dad, for example acts, up he can incur the wrath of Mom and the graduate.

LOL, well if a Uncle Charlie is told proper decorum and one has a suspicion that he can't control himself, it might be best to leave him at home. If I told my relatives what was expected and they disregarded it, I would suspect this isn't the first time they have displayed that type of behavior. In which case, I probably wouldn't bring old Uncle Charlie in the first place.
Do you think Uncle Charlie would blow an airhorn at the baptism service? or do you think he can only control himself selectively?

 

[Ang50]

I just graduated from law school. It's a HUGE deal - we have these big gowns, and a hood, and it's a formal occasion. Some people cheered and such, as was allowed, but people could behave themselves.

Since when did the graduation ceremony itself become a huge party and since when did people lose the ability to behave themselves?? However, since when did administration decide to take on these rules and use this approach?

I remember graduating high school we were sternly ordered not to bring beach balls, noisemakers, etc. Ourselves - not the family. There were consequences, but I don't remember them.

I just don't understand, though, why administration wouldn't make an announcement at the beginning explaining about the solemn occasion, and asking that people treat it as such. Only clapping and brief cheering. Then, when people ignore it, make another announcement. Stop the ceremony until people calm down. And probably these schools have tried that, but it hasn't worked - it just seems that another approach would be better.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

I just graduated from law school. It's a HUGE deal - we have these big gowns, and a hood, and it's a formal occasion. Some people cheered and such, as was allowed, but people could behave themselves.

Since when did the graduation ceremony itself become a huge party and since when did people lose the ability to behave themselves?? However, since when did administration decide to take on these rules and use this approach?

I remember graduating high school we were sternly ordered not to bring beach balls, noisemakers, etc. Ourselves - not the family. There were consequences, but I don't remember them.

I just don't understand, though, why administration wouldn't make an announcement at the beginning explaining about the solemn occasion, and asking that people treat it as such. Only clapping and brief cheering. Then, when people ignore it, make another announcement. Stop the ceremony until people calm down. And probably these schools have tried that, but it hasn't worked - it just seems that another approach would be better.

--Ang50, great post and congrats on your Law School Graduation

 

[Boyzmomee]

Agree--denying the kids diplomas is absurd--Its not their fault their relatives may have over-reacted--I did like the part about the air horns,though--that was funny--a bit over the top lol

It must have been one big problem if the school had complaints in prior years and had to institute this policy.

These students parents signed the agreement and then chose to disregard it.

There should be another way of dealing with it rather than having the kids do comunnity service to get their diplomas. They earned it.


And I'm sick of people playing the race card.

 

[luvbeaches]

You better believe this will be discussed next year and only the real slow learners will be hootin' and hollerin' lol.

LOL...yeah, there are always a few that just don't get it.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

Don't the "real" diplomas come in the mail? I think that I received a blank piece of paper at my college graduation. My real diploma was mailed to me a few weeks later.

I think it was like that for me in college as well but, I don't think it was like that 4 high school.

 

[fundiva]

Exactly! I would be peeved at my family if they did that to me or my child. What were they thinking if they signed a contract?! Why would they do that to their own friend or family member?!
I mean have some self control for gosh sakes. I would start a movement to have it changed if it was unfair or unecessarily harsh. Got to set an example for these kids! Teach them how to bring about change the right way, not to just ignore what they have already agreed to. It's the mentality that all the rules apply, but just not to me. Just burns me!

When my kids graduated, there were roughly 1000 students in each class. It makes for a very very long day, with each name being called. While each child would get varying degrees of cheers, people were generally quick about it and they could move along.

How do they know the people cheering were necessarily relatives? What if someone wanted to be particularly mean to another student and they got a group of people to yell and scream when that student went to get their diploma - not relatives. How is the student or the relatives supposed to control that? This all sounds pretty childish to me. They need to think the whole situation through before they start denying diplomas.

 

[Paladin]

How do they know the people cheering were necessarily relatives? What if someone wanted to be particularly mean to another student and they got a group of people to yell and scream when that student went to get their diploma - not relatives. How is the student or the relatives supposed to control that? This all sounds pretty childish to me. They need to think the whole situation through before they start denying diplomas.

Maybe they didn't think people would be that clever...or idiotic.

 

[fundiva]

Maybe they didn't think people would be that clever...or idiotic.

and thus my point....they didn't think.

 

[Nova]

I am sympathetic with what the school is trying to do. It's not just that cheering can become disruptive, at a graduation it can become a de facto popularity contest where kids who are either less popular or simply come from small families are publicly shamed. I have seen that before.

HOWEVER, I don't understand how a school can withhold a diploma earned over 4 years due to behavior that doesn't even come from the graduate herself. (Yes, I know they are only withholding the piece of paper--the HS degree is still valid--and I never even bothered to pick up the last diploma I earned. Still, the penalty seems unfairly random to me.)

 

[close_enough]

So what does one do if someone cheers and it is a person that the graduate didn't even invite, or a jerk in the audience cheers just to get a graduate in trouble that they don't like?

Punishing the graduate for someone elses actions just doesn't seem right... you work 4 years to get to that point and all it takes is one jerk's yelping to mar the whole ending of a life milestone moment? The offender should be held accountable for their actions, not the graduate... JMO

i agree with your post, Elphaba.....i have to admit i snickered a little at the "air horns" though...i've never heard anyone use one at a graduation ceremony....those graduates will get their diplomas though, imo.... they just didn't get them in front of the crowd....those are metro records, & the student should be able to get their diplomas...they'll probably have to go to the School Board or something to pick them up.....

 

[close_enough]

I am sympathetic with what the school is trying to do. It's not just that cheering can become disruptive, at a graduation it can become a de facto popularity contest where kids who are either less popular or simply come from small families are publicly shamed. I have seen that before.

HOWEVER, I don't understand how a school can withhold a diploma earned over 4 years due to behavior that doesn't even come from the graduate herself. (Yes, I know they are only withholding the piece of paper--the HS degree is still valid--and I never even bothered to pick up the last diploma I earned. Still, the penalty seems unfairly random to me.)

exactly Nova.....

 

[txsvicki]

They are not affecting the rest of the students' entire lives. They can get their diplomas if they do 8 hours of community service. They are giving them a slap on the wrist for their friends' and relatives' failure to comply with a written contract.

Sometimes I feel sorry for the schools. They can't win. Sounds like last year, this school had to deal with a bunch of angry parents complaining that they couldn't hear their kids' names called at graduation because of air horns (?!), and now they try to do something about it, and they get crap for that, too. What are the other options to get the audience to shut up? If you kick out the troublemakers, you are only doing it after the fact.

How in the heck can the school make the 5 kids do community service since they didn't do the hollering or commit some crime to even be sentenced by a judge? I can see banning air horns, but to deny a diploma is pure evil. At least that's my opinion. I think every single person in the audience ( the taxpayers who pay the salaries of the power mad school) who disagrees from now on should holler for every single graduate. Then there would be hundreds of yells and hollers and the school would either shut up or close the whole thing down at their own humiliation,ban air horns only, and not arrest and harass parents and students.

 

[Details]

"pure evil"? It's a piece of paper! Doesn't mean much of anything. And if they really want it, 8 little hours and it's theirs. If the student has a family member who can't control themselves, don't give them one of your invitations.

So far, sounds like the families aren't saying they didn't cheer, so the hypothetical where some Snidley Whiplash launches an air horn while twirling his moustache isn't what we're talking about here.

 

[Paladin]

Some of you guys are making it sound like doing community service is a bad thing. 8 hours? Big deal. People should be volunteering their time anyway.

 

[goddess]

If the parents signed the contract, then why did they yell?

Dont sign the contract if you disagree.

I refuse to sign the drug testing paper my sons High School wants all the students to sign and turn in, because he is being sent to school to be educated, NOT treated like an untrustable junkie. Just because the school sends this crap home does not mean you become a sheeple and just blindly sign.

I foresee our school trying the graduation contract thing, they are all about penalizing(as in penal colonizing) the students.

Besides, our recent graduation, ANYONE can show up, and the graduate may well have had her/his family sign a contract, but the OTHERS who showed up dont have to sign or abide by squat, and to penalize the child for the actions of the audience is going too far.

No wonder so many kids hate school.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Some of you guys are making it sound like doing community service is a bad thing. 8 hours? Big deal. People should be volunteering their time anyway.

--agree that people should volunteer their time--I was a volunteer driver for awhile, I drove cancer patients to their treatments--but in this case I think the students are still being punished unfairly, air horns or not