Illegal/Underground Adoption Theories and leads

[NewMommy09]

Harmony,

That site pays anyone to write stories and is not known for only reporting solid facts. ANYONE can write for them and they are paid by how many clicks the story receives. Writers on that site are known to embellish to receive more interest, and hence get paid more. That doesn't mean that NOTHING reported there is true. But unless you read info elsewhere (preferably from an LE source or at least reputable media source) it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Also, another sleuther said that she clicked on a link there once and ended up with several files being downloaded in the background (possibly viruses or adware). Just FYI.

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=6754141

Meanwhile, search of landfill delayed
By Michael Board
Monday, February 8, 2010
The father of missing "Baby Gabriel" says he and a private investigator have found evidence that the child's mother may have given the 8-month old away in an underground adoption in San Antonio.

"They're not telling us anything we didn't know already," Police Chief William McManus tells News Radio 1200 WOAI.

 

[DairyGirl]

Good to know that LE is also looking at underground adoptions. They definately are not letting much out about the investigation. I hope LM is right about them doing more then it looks like on the surface.

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

Good to know that LE is also looking at underground adoptions. They definately are not letting much out about the investigation. I hope LM is right about them doing more then it looks like on the surface.

It's confusing. JJ seemed very critical of LE. And then today they say, they haven't told us anything we don't know. Does that mean they have investigated the heck out of that theory in the past few weeks and come up with nothing? Are they just saying that to save face? I hope hope hope they are actively working on it and believe it.

 

[captdj]

Ok My theory was that Elizabeth had a plan when she ran.......
This was not her first thoughts of Adoption... she had mentioned it before
Maybe we need to start before Gabriels birth to see if EJ had a prior contact and to see if San Antonio was the completion to an adoption that was cancelled or delayed.....
3 more cell phones were discovered at the trailer... any contacts on them?
Was there another computer she could have access to also... Logans?

It just seems so well planned to have happened after the custody hearing on Dec. 17th and providing the Smiths didnt play a part in her choice of San Antonio.....

 

[DairyGirl]

Ok My theory was that Elizabeth had a plan when she ran.......
This was not her first thoughts of Adoption... she had mentioned it before
Maybe we need to start before Gabriels birth to see if EJ had a prior contact and to see if San Antonio was the completion to an adoption that was cancelled or delayed.....
3 more cell phones were discovered at the trailer... any contacts on them?
Was there another computer she could have access to also... Logans?

It just seems so well planned to have happened after the custody hearing on Dec. 17th and providing the Smiths didnt play a part in her choice of San Antonio.....

I think many of those answers would be on the laptop that EJ was said to have and to have sold. She didn't have a Craigslist ad for it so did she give it/sell it to a friend or destroy it because of what was on it. It looks like she was aware that she could be traced by emails, did she also know that her computer could be looked at?

 

[DaneBramage]

I think many of those answers would be on the laptop that EJ was said to have and to have sold. She didn't have a Craigslist ad for it so did she give it/sell it to a friend or destroy it because of what was on it. It looks like she was aware that she could be traced by emails, did she also know that her computer could be looked at?

I think she destroyed it or threw it away and then lied about selling it.

 

[jjokelly1968]

I think she destroyed it or threw it away and then lied about selling it.

I wonder if anyone has requested to search the grandpa's house? If she is close enought to borrow his car - wouldn't she be close enough to have access to his house to say hide a computer in the attic or something like that?? Just a thought.

 

[DairyGirl]

I think she destroyed it or threw it away and then lied about selling it.

I agree. I think if she followed any other crimes or even if she watched crime shows on tv she knew that things could be recovered off of computer hard drives, even if they were deleted. I think she might have taken out the hard drive and destroyed it and maybe threw away or gave away the laptop without the hard drive.

 

[DairyGirl]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4666494&postcount=699"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, missing since 12-26-09 thread #5[/ame]

Two agencys that have used this hotel is Adoption Services Associates and Adoption Alliance. Both very close to the hotel and park

Has anyone sent this in as a tip?

 

[Prof]

-- JBean suggests 10% copy of articles at the most to avoid any question of copyright-- just a friendly fyi (I keep a Word file for the ones with good info--as online articles have been known to be edited drastically later)

Dairygirl, I have not submitted that as a tip


Do we have a thread for EJ's laptop and/or cell phones discussion? or would it fit in the EJ acted alone thread?

 

[DairyGirl]

-- JBean suggests 10% copy of articles at the most to avoid any question of copyright-- just a friendly fyi (I keep a Word file for the ones with good info--as online articles have been known to be edited drastically later)

Dairygirl, I have not submitted that as a tip


Do we have a thread for EJ's laptop and/or cell phones discussion? or would it fit in the EJ acted alone thread?

I sent the agencies names to the P.I. and to the family in case they didn't have them.
As of now, we have only been talking about the laptop and cell phones on the if EJ acted alone threads. Do you think it needs their own threads?

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22494558/detail.html

I have a question. If this is what happened, what are the chances that they will file paperwork with the state of TX to try to make the adoption legal and is there any way LE or J.J. Armes can look at all the people that have filed paperwork to initiate the adoption process in that timeframe? Or do you think they wouldn't want to start the process until the heat is off? It sounds like she may have signed papers, if what she said was true.
Also interested in her My Space comment. It sure sounds like she found a way to adopt out Gabriel without LM's permission.

Sure they can. They just have to look at every county (in TX). Someone was also telling me it is possible for the family to go back to wherever they are from and do the adoption there, but would have to have all the paperwork, etc. I personally think they would do it in TX. I still wonder if they have ever cleared Beth from the scrapbooking blog. This woman claimed to be in TX adopting.

 

[Amster]

The family has asked that it be clarified that Logan has NOT hired J. Jay Armes. He is acting independently and Logan has met with him once to thank him. Logan has not signed any contract or any piece of paper with J. Jay Armes.

The family is welcoming any help that can be given by any and all investigators.

The family would like any information that is forwarded to the P.I. to also be sent to them. This is per a conversation I had with one of Logan's Aunts...

I'm confused....are Logan and family working with this guy, or not? If not, why not? If anyone knows...

 

[time]

The family has asked that it be clarified that Logan has NOT hired J. Jay Armes. He is acting independently and Logan has met with him once to thank him. Logan has not signed any contract or any piece of paper with J. Jay Armes.

The family is welcoming any help that can be given by any and all investigators.

The family would like any information that is forwarded to the P.I. to also be sent to them. This is per a conversation I had with one of Logan's Aunts...

Hi Art.... I think you might also want to put this on the thread entitled

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94735"]Logan has hired a Private Investigator JJ Armes - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Logan has hired a Private Investigator JJ Armes

And, perhaps the name of that thread should be changed. I do not think he has actually been 'hired' either. I think the family wants important tips sent to them, JJ, and LE/FBI/Hotline. If there are actions people want to take, like hadn out fliers, I think that should be posted on the facebook page for Gabriel or perhaps find some contact with the Heidi group.

I think if missinggabe is Logan's aunt and they feel otherwise, then missinggabe should post that on here. I will email Logan's aunt to suggest that so we can avoid confusion. There is a baby missing here and where tips should or should not go needs to be clear to those doing research.

I will also email Logan and suggest he or his family should state on the facebook page for Gabriel that they want tips sent to them. We need to remember that the facebook page IS the only official page set-up by Gabriel's family.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I haven't read today's posts, but I did watch the current news. I am a Texan, but I agree with Logan, it makes me sick to my stomach that Texas would allow a baby to be put up for adoption without the father's consent. I hope that the fact he was born in Arizona and taken over state lines, keeps the Texas laws from being applicable here. It is seems corrupt to me.

 

[kissdegirl]

today....I'm not proud to be a Texan. I really really want to believe the SAPD is working on a bigger picture, trying to gather evidence to prosecute the big heads of this operation. I hope. I'm not so sure, but I have to hope. I was thinking they were planning with Tempe LE to make an example out of all parties involved, hence the charges against TS....and maybe SAPD is working on the other shady ladies.

Like I said, I just really want to believe it. I would love to see these people go down for the corrupt babyselling they're involved in. And I want Gabriel back!

And, FWIW, I think Armes made a calculated statement regarding the SAPD. If he criticizes them, he will be better respected amongst the criminals...

All this MOO...I'm not a legal expert.

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22505785/detail.html
Snipped:
"But a second pizza order three days later may better help find Gabriel. The receipt, provided by Papa John's, also lists the name Elizabeth and room 150, but on Dec. 24, she ordered two pizzas, a medium and a large. They had a different assortment of toppings and seem to strongly suggest she was not eating alone.
The driver who delivered that order no longer works at Papa John's, but Tabor Morris wants to help track him down. If that second driver saw someone with Elizabeth, his testimony could help break the case."

 

[CathyinTexas]

Gabriel Alive?
Elizabeth Johnson Followed Blueprint For Texas Adoption
New Evidence Suggests The Accused Kidnapper Planned To Give Baby Gabriel Away

snipped for space

SAN ANTONIO, Texas -- New evidence that surfaced Sunday in the search for Baby Gabriel shows there is a better chance that he may still be alive. It suggests it was Elizabeth Johnson's plan all along to adopt her baby away.

After talking to an adoption expert who helps the FBI in the world of underground adoptions, the McQueary family learned some startling connections. The Homegate Hotel where Elizabeth stayed is well known in adoption circles. Agencies put girls up there for meetings with families, and to complete paperwork.

“Often girls go to Six Flags to meet with the adoptive family. There’s a lot of people in and out there, and there’s also security there, and it’s a safe place for both the mother and the family to meet, often to bring the child, introduce the child to the family,” said Lisa Peters

alot more at link

http://www.kpho.com/baby-gabriel-johnson/22494558/detail.html

This is all so encouraging. EJ said she gave Gabriel to a couple in a park, but I don't think she ever identified the park, did she? Six Flags is considered a park, though an amusement park. It is very exciting they have her and Gabriel at Six Flags on December 26. How could this not be what happened given the information we have now. I am surprised though, that the "adoptive" parents haven't come forward given all the publicity in this case.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I wanted to understand more about this and so I've read up as much as possible on the Texas Family Law statutes. While I agree that if possible Logan should register, under Texas adoption law he would be entitled to a notice of proceeding (notification of the potential adoption) even if he is not registered as long as:

Paraphrasing: a father-child relationship had been established previously under TX Family law or another law or he has taken court action to claim his paternity before the TX court terminates his parental rights.

I've read more and this post would be very long if I tried to put all of this information here, but all of these statutes are available online. I do see how a father's parental rights could be terminated in TX, but I do not see how this could be a legal adoption in this timeframe. There are many adoption steps that have to happen.

It seems to me that the laws that have been posted pertain to Texas births and Texas fathers. How can it be possible that a baby born in another state whose father has custody of him, and the baby is kidnapped and taken over state lines, could be adopted out legally?