Illegal/Underground Adoption Theories and leads

[kappy50]

All this illegal/underground adoption just blows my mind. When we adopted our daughter 30 years ago, anything illegal never even crossed our minds....It was a legal headache.....Times/world has so changed....I guess I am too old and blind to the world of technology...

 

[chell]

That's odd. Everything else I've seen where EJ actually described the couple said that the woman had long straight blonde hair. And I guess the couple who she gave G to doesn't have to necessarily be the couple who ended up with him.

 

[chell]

It would be helpful toknow if that matches the description of the couple and EJ in the videos ? I know the video has not been released but has anything been said about whether her description is consistent with the evidence?

 

[kappy50]

It would be helpful toknow if that matches the description of the couple and EJ in the videos ? I know the video has not been released but has anything been said about whether her description is consistent with the evidence?

chell...have I missed something. There is a unreleased video with EJ and others ???

 

[kappy50]

I've never been to Mexico, but I have to ask those that have or who know, do you have to show any type of papers, citizenship, or anything to get into Mexico ??? Or do you just drive across ???

 

[BeanE]

It would be helpful toknow if that matches the description of the couple and EJ in the videos ? I know the video has not been released but has anything been said about whether her description is consistent with the evidence?

There are no videos of Elizabeth and any couple.


Johnson also allegedly said that she believes there is surveillance video of a couple leaving the hotel with Gabriel.

Police told News 4 WOAI that Johnson's claim that a couple is pictured on surveillance video with the child is inaccurate.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/stor...-sure-he-is-alive/SB4BqGbAw02X3T5x3nQa8A.cspx


Also, look in the right hand column at this link below. There are several rumors addressed.

MORE ON THIS TOPIC

As time has passed, the case of Gabriel Johnson has taken several twists, most of which have been refuted by police.

The following are questions and rumors and the Tempe Police Department's responses.

snip

Video footage exists of her giving the baby away.

Tammi Smith told reporters that she has met with Johnson in jail, and that Johnson told her there was video footage at the FBI of Johnson handing the child over to a couple outside a San Antonio hotel. Sgt. Steve Carbajal, a Tempe police spokesman, said immediately after the reports surfaced that there was no such footage.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/01/17/20100117missingbaby0117.html

 

[Schatzi]

I've never been to Mexico, but I have to ask those that have or who know, do you have to show any type of papers, citizenship, or anything to get into Mexico ??? Or do you just drive across ???

To drive/walk across you need either a passport or passport card - I'm not sure if those get checked/scanned on your way in, or used as a way to get back into the US. I haven't been across (in Nogales) in 2 years since the law changed and back then you didn't need anything- you just drove across or walked thru the gate. Very easy. For my girls, coming back across they needed their birth certificate and had to speak in english to the agent.

A bit o/t- if GJ was brought across, he'd be easy to blend in in larger communities/metros, such a Puebla, Guadalajara, DF - lot's of fair skinned/light eyed folks (and ex-pats, as well).

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Just posting for reference:

Tammi: "I think everybody needs to be looking, because according to Elizabeth, these people were going to try to hide this baby," Smith added. "According to her, they are trying to hide this baby because they believe in a few years, nobody will know who the baby is."

http://www.woai.com/news/local/stor...-sure-he-is-alive/SB4BqGbAw02X3T5x3nQa8A.cspx

To me, that sounds like what Tammi herself wants to do.

 

[BeanE]

To me, that sounds like what Tammi herself wants to do.

Interesting that the producer who was there confirms in their account of the visit that it came from Elizabeth.

Johnson said the couple brought their own car seat and that they said they could keep baby Gabriel without anyone noticing.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/elizabeth...ws-baby-gabriel-alive/story?id=9554084&page=1

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I wish I thought that anything EJ says could be believed. I'm sure she is telling some of the truth, some of the time--as all liars do. (Ditto for TS).

 

[BeanE]

I wish I thought that anything EJ says could be believed. I'm sure she is telling some of the truth, some of the time--as all liars do. (Ditto for TS).

Oh I think Elizabeth makes a habit of lying, and particularly now that she's been charged with such serious crimes, and has been notified that she is facing even more serious crimes.

Nevertheless, I believe the producer that those statements came from Elizabeth, truthful or not.

I have no reason to think that the producer is lying, and that it was actually Tammi who said it.

 

[Litlred]

Interesting that the producer who was there confirms in their account of the visit that it came from Elizabeth.

Johnson said the couple brought their own car seat and that they said they could keep baby Gabriel without anyone noticing.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/elizabeth...ws-baby-gabriel-alive/story?id=9554084&page=1

they said they could keep baby Gabriel without anyone noticing

What normal couple could keep a baby without anyone noticing?

A foster couple? (people would think, oh another baby, thats normal)

 

[DairyGirl]

What normal couple could keep a baby without anyone noticing?

A foster couple? (people would think, oh another baby, thats normal)

Either that or they just aren't taking the baby out of the house. Or they could say it is a relative. I don't believe this case is as well known to most people. I can imagine most people wouldn't think too much about it if someone showed up with a baby and said they were adopting it.

 

[BeanE]

What normal couple could keep a baby without anyone noticing?

A foster couple? (people would think, oh another baby, thats normal)

No normal couple could, I agree. But we're not talking about the average couple. We're talking about people who have a baby they are holding illegally, kidnappers. The first step is committing the crime, subsequent steps are covering it up.

If what Elizabeth said is true, then these people knew from the git-go how to go about trying to cover up their crime. That is interesting and scary. It indicates this wasn't spur of the moment for the couple, but that they had been planning on getting a baby illegally, or already have gotten one or more babies illegally.

 

[kissdegirl]

If these people were known by the suspected broker here, then I was thinking EJ and that person could have had the couple convinced that the baby was in severe danger if returned to LM (the broker could have been duped too for that matter). They, or EJ, could have made up lies and shown LM's criminal record to them. EJ is comfortable lying, and I'm sure she could pull that off and have them believing that the documents were not legal, but staying with them is the safest place for Gabriel. That could also explain their determination to continue keeping him now. They likely have a lot of money as well, and may have a place in the country, with no neighbors nearby, and will find it easy to just live their lives and no one could notice.
It seems they wouldn't be the first people convinced of that, and I am very interested in what lies EJ may have told TS to convince her to risk so much and break the law by trying to get Gabriel for herself.

 

[TXHOPE]

No normal couple could, I agree. But we're not talking about the average couple. We're talking about people who have a baby they are holding illegally, kidnappers. The first step is committing the crime, subsequent steps are covering it up.

If what Elizabeth said is true, then these people knew from the git-go how to go about trying to cover up their crime. That is interesting and scary. It indicates this wasn't spur of the moment for the couple, but that they had been planning on getting a baby illegally, or already have gotten one or more babies illegally.

I'm hoping the couple that has him is a couple who couldn't conceive on their own and has been trying to adopt legally for years but was turned down for one reason or another and that they were so desperate to have a child that this was their only option. As wrong and horrible as it is, at least he would be in loving arms until he is found and returned to his father. I just hate the thought of him being alive but in danger or worse the landfill. Hopefully LE or JJ Armes is getting close. Neither have provided an update lately so hopefully we'll hear something soon.

 

[Gin]

I'm hoping the couple that has him is a couple who couldn't conceive on their own and has been trying to adopt legally for years but was turned down for one reason or another and that they were so desperate to have a child that this was their only option. As wrong and horrible as it is, at least he would be in loving arms until he is found and returned to his father. I just hate the thought of him being alive but in danger or worse the landfill. Hopefully LE or JJ Armes is getting close. Neither have provided an update lately so hopefully we'll hear something soon.

If he is still with us, we certainly all hope he's receiving adequate care. However, the alleged "adoptives" are also kidnappers. IMO, they will be in so much legal trouble the consequences will be with them for many years, and likely the rest of their lives.
I also wait to hear something from LE or JJ Armes. I agree with you--hopefully they are getting close. I have to believe the prime players in this haven't committed the perfect crime. They have slipped up, it's just finding out where.

 

[chell]

Any couple in transition would also be easily able to add a family member without raising suspicion. So, If they adopted G, laid low for a few days/weeks if necessary and moved to the new address as a family (old family+ 1 tiny boy), they would hardly ring alarm bells. Plus, this story is really NOT all that widely circulated. I heard more about it when it first happened but every other bit of info I've heard has been because I went looking for it. I know limited coverage has occurred on some of the national programs but I'm too busy in the am to sit down to a morning news show and doubt seriously that most ppl have even heard the story where I live. I'm wondering if most of the coverage has been in areas considered local to the actual taking of G (AZ, TX, maybe TN).

 

[TXHOPE]

Any couple in transition would also be easily able to add a family member without raising suspicion. So, If they adopted G, laid low for a few days/weeks if necessary and moved to the new address as a family (old family+ 1 tiny boy), they would hardly ring alarm bells. Plus, this story is really NOT all that widely circulated. I heard more about it when it first happened but every other bit of info I've heard has been because I went looking for it. I know limited coverage has occurred on some of the national programs but I'm too busy in the am to sit down to a morning news show and doubt seriously that most ppl have even heard the story where I live. I'm wondering if most of the coverage has been in areas considered local to the actual taking of G (AZ, TX, maybe TN).

The only thing I've heard on local news in Austin, an hour away from SA, is that the landfill search had started. That's it, one time in a 30 second insert and they only showed a picture of the landfill... It may of been on before and I just didn't see it but I've mentioned before that most of my TX friends, family and neighbors had not heard of Gabriel. I think it would be easy to hide him as well. Eventually he will have to go to the doctor which is another reason flyers are important and then down the road (5 years down the road!!) he will have to start school. A fake birth certificate and SS# will cover that though. I think it's going to take finding the source-baby broker and then connecting him to the couple or evidence like the ring that can connect LE directly to the couple. Talk EJ!! :furious:

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Oh I think Elizabeth makes a habit of lying, and particularly now that she's been charged with such serious crimes, and has been notified that she is facing even more serious crimes.

Nevertheless, I believe the producer that those statements came from Elizabeth, truthful or not.

I have no reason to think that the producer is lying, and that it was actually Tammi who said it.

I wasn't suggesting that Tammi said the quotation under discussion; my point is that her words represented what I take as TS's point of view. That, in fact, they are seeing the situation from the same perspective. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

Unless someone is watching NG or is interested in missing persons cases, most people would have no idea who Gabriel is and that he's missing. And if he is in Mexico or Canada---the best hope is J.J. Armes tracking him down. What LE should be doing is finding a way to infiltrate these adoption rings and shut them down for good. It's human trafficking.