Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[CSIDreamer]

I think from the inside, everything looked differently. I suspect Delphi LE experienced burnout very quickly, and it is not surprising.

I am in a totally different area, thank God, and may pace my schedule. And yet what kills my day is the amount of paperwork. I am trying to imagine how hard it was on these regular police guys at the beginning. Doubtfully anyone provided them all with new computers, dictation systems, everything that saves effort and time. (Correct me if I am wrong). No one took away all their daily caseload of meth users throwing fireworks from cars at high-speed chase (welcome to "Carroll County Sheriff's Facebook for the mug shots of "Indiana's finest". Only LE's K-9 looks more or less human). And on top of it, the Delphi case that was a priority and needed a lot of organization and manpower. Few ever came across such murders in their lives. So I am trying to imagine how it was to these cops, when every step probably needed five papers and six affidavits. Plus, "local" could mean Delphi, Logansport, Frankfort, etc, etc.

Can't blame LE for doing something wrong, or not doing timely. I suspect that with all this additional work, and guests, and calls, and attention, many felt overwhelmed. On the human level, I can't even blame them for not paying attention to RA initially. Probably they were only too happy to cross a seemingly normal citizen off that suspect list.

TL once said how he regretted calling off the dogs. After that, posters started, "of course, if they had dogs...". I bet if TL hadn't said it, no one would think dogs were even an option.

Our brain is trained to recognize patterns, and use pre-learned algorithms to solve problems with minimal cost and efforts. In this case, the patterns were new, and, as I suspect, pre-learned algorithms didn't exist. Luckily, it is still a rare case.

BBM

I'm fairly certain that the Carroll County Sheriff Department and Indiana State Police have access to modern equipment. The Carroll County Sheriff Dept was the lead agency from the start, not the Delphi Police. While even we Hoosiers poke fun at ourselves (like every state does), we still have modern amenities.

 

[Elley Mae]

rsbm

This is what is bothering me - is his entire outfit something he bought specifically that day, wore once, and tossed? But he wasn't disguised enough for someone who was trying to not be recognized aka someone who would buy an outfit specifically to commit a crime)
It's just hard to imagine that his clothing wouldn't be recognized along with his voice, gait, etc.
Not saying his wife knew something...but I've seen circumstances where denial can completely cloud someone's reality.

All jmo

Just like Dr. Dirk Greineder's case, his 3 kids stood by him, not believing he murdered their mother.

He was found guilt of murdering his wife Mabel.

 

[Prime8]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

I'm not sure that we know yet that RA was "missed". I'm sure he was always on the list of suspects and we do not know what kind of timeline was developed for him that day. It seems (just speculation) that there was perhaps some piece of information gained in the last few years that made RA stand out more as a possible perpetrator than he had in the past.

I'm also not sure that the height is as important as people say. He's somewhere between 5'6" and 5'8" (I believe the 5'4" was debunked). While that may be below average for the average male in the US, that doesn't mean it's below average for a man in that general area. I feel like I've been to cities where it seems like everyone is really tall and other cities where it seems like everyone is short (I'm 5'6"). In populations where people aren't moving in and out of the area in large numbers, some genetic factors can start showing themselves. Not to say that's the case in Carroll County, I just think the height issue is more nuanced that people think.

 

[Prime8]

that is so interesting - does this apply to every state or only some?
i've never heard of that before. i thought you either paid for your own private attorney, or you were assigned a public offender, and those were your only options.

Those are the two options, private attorney or public defender (PD). But, any attorney that has a license in that state can be a public defender at any time. Private attorney's can and are often contracted to do public defender work, either on a regular basis or as a favor/limited term basis. A lot of areas, PD aren't full time positions, private attorney's take on extra cases through the PD office. If there are no full-time PD in the area that fit the needs of the case (time, don't have conflicts, etc.), someone may step in that usually does private work to work as a PD.

Another thing that happens, MS described this and my ex (who was a criminal defense attorney/PD) had this happen too, where someone shows up for court without an attorney and the judge just assigns a random attorney in the room to represent that person. Now, that representation may not last beyond that hearing, but it is commonplace.

Hope that clears some things up.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm not sure that we know yet that RA was "missed". I'm sure he was always on the list of suspects and we do not know what kind of timeline was developed for him that day. It seems (just speculation) that there was perhaps some piece of information gained in the last few years that made RA stand out more as a possible perpetrator than he had in the past.

I'm also not sure that the height is as important as people say. He's somewhere between 5'6" and 5'8" (I believe the 5'4" was debunked). While that may be below average for the average male in the US, that doesn't mean it's below average for a man in that general area. I feel like I've been to cities where it seems like everyone is really tall and other cities where it seems like everyone is short (I'm 5'6"). In populations where people aren't moving in and out of the area in large numbers, some genetic factors can start showing themselves. Not to say that's the case in Carroll County, I just think the height issue is more nuanced that people think.

I'm not even convinced they knew he was on the trail because he came forward. I'll believe that when LE confirms it. JMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

MS seems to have stepped forward to reveal critical info to the public, in an ongoing investigation. One of the couple is an attorney. It makes you wonder if they are leaking to the public with the blessing of LE as a tactic for the sake of the investigation, or actually getting insider info from a reliable source to share with the public.
What are the consequences for this source for leaking info to MS? I would think if they are law enforcement the cons would be grave

Who is MS?

 

[websl]

Who is MS?

Murder Sheet podcast

 

[Love Never Fails]

Murder Sheet podcast

Thank you.

 

[Charlot123]

Yeah this is really difficult … his appearance, his VOICE … how did they not recognize him??

My best guess IMO is it’s in the nature of how an investigation is done, esp when you have a huge pool of potential suspects. You have to proceed step by step to eliminate people, and step 1 is an ALIBI.

A crime happened at location X at Y time on Z date, and whoever committed it had to have been there.

Anyone who can show they were somewhere other than X at Y-o’clock on Z-day is taken off the long list of potential perps. Now the list is shorter, containing only those without a sufficient alibi.

My SPECULATION jmo is maybe RMA managed to produce a good enough alibi for the exact moment of the crimes. This would move him out of the pool of “needs a further look” at the first cut. LE would then move on to dig into the remaining pool without looking back.

If RMA did indeed offer a passable alibi, it’s possible he was written off as a suspect within minutes of presenting himself to LE shortly after the crime, and then literally did not get a second look again for five+ years MOO

JMO. Having listened to recordings provided by GH and by some other posters, I am not convinced either way. “Guys down the hill” is too short. “Make RA say “down the hill” in the same place, use the same type of the phone to record, the same company to clean the recording, and maybe the same strain of a flu, if he had it, or bourbon, if he drank it that day, and we’ll see”.

Women once interviewing RL made him say “down the hill” in that forest near the CS, and it, too, sounded similar to BG.

I am interested whether TL who said he heard this voice, and who probably cleared RA, considered him among the “voice owners”. I am also curious what was RA’s alibi.

(As long as LEO have “their man”, I am not criticizing TL. What spoke against RA, given that TL lived in Delphi all his life, and knew his beat, is interesting to know, however, because we all tend to fall into the same pitfalls).

 

[Yvettea]

JMO. Having listened to recordings provided by GH and by some other posters, I am not convinced either way. “Guys down the hill” is too short. “Make RA say “down the hill” in the same place, use the same type of the phone to record, the same company to clean the recording, and maybe the same strain of a flu, if he had it, or bourbon, if he drank it that day, and we’ll see”.

Women once interviewing RL made him say “down the hill” in that forest near the CS, and it, too, sounded similar to BG.

I am interested whether TL who said he heard this voice, and who probably cleared RA, considered him among the “voice owners”. I am also curious what was RA’s alibi.

(As long as LEO have “their man”, I am not criticizing TL. What spoke against RA, given that TL lived in Delphi all his life, and knew his beat, is interesting to know, however, because we all tend to fall into the same pitfalls).

Who is TL please?

ETA: I think you must mean Tobe Lazenby? (Corrected spelling)

 

[uwmadison]

Those are the two options, private attorney or public defender (PD). But, any attorney that has a license in that state can be a public defender at any time. Private attorney's can and are often contracted to do public defender work, either on a regular basis or as a favor/limited term basis. A lot of areas, PD aren't full time positions, private attorney's take on extra cases through the PD office. If there are no full-time PD in the area that fit the needs of the case (time, don't have conflicts, etc.), someone may step in that usually does private work to work as a PD.

Another thing that happens, MS described this and my ex (who was a criminal defense attorney/PD) had this happen too, where someone shows up for court without an attorney and the judge just assigns a random attorney in the room to represent that person. Now, that representation may not last beyond that hearing, but it is commonplace.

Hope that clears some things up.

Thank you for you info and insight. WISH-TV in Indpls stated that Carroll County, Indiana (like many rural counties in Indiana) does not have a public defender's office and the judge will pick a public defender from a pool of local private attorneys. ..https://www.wishtv.com/news/i-team-8/taxpayers-may-fund-defense-for-suspect-in-2017-delphi-murders-in-carroll-county/

 

[Dotta]

Carroll County, Indiana (like many rural counties in Indiana) does not have a public defender's office and the judge will pick a public defender from a pool of local private attorneys.

Can a private attorney decline this "offer"?

Or is this an offer one cannot refuse?

 

[Yvettea]

Can a private attorney decline this "offer"?

Or is this an offer one cannot refuse?

Referring you to the article I read upthread: Taxpayers may fund defense for suspect in 2017 Delphi murders in Carroll County

 

[Charlot123]

BBM

I'm fairly certain that the Carroll County Sheriff Department and Indiana State Police have access to modern equipment. The Carroll County Sheriff Dept was the lead agency from the start, not the Delphi Police. While even we Hoosiers poke fun at ourselves (like every state does), we still have modern amenities.

Glad for you, but even in my field, unless you cross the Ts you can’t move. I got documents about one person, saying they “spoke to me” on such-and-such day. No one did, I merely got 50 pages of fax. But, unless there is a checkmark next to “spoke”, nothing moves, so there was one. Can’t blame people, they are overwhelmed. Law being the epitome of bureaucracy, I am always interested in how to de-stress LEO and prevent job burnout. So I am interested in TL explaining the challenges of working at this case while doing the regular job. This is all

 

[Charlot123]

Referring you to the article I read upthread: Taxpayers may fund defense for suspect in 2017 Delphi murders in Carroll County

All they need to do is make the process televised. Most people interested in true crime would pay for the pleasure of watching it. Or, contract Netflix for the right to show it, and they get their money for the defense, and more.

 

[Laughing]

All they need to do is make the process televised. Most people interested in true crime would pay for the pleasure of watching it. Or, contract Netflix for the right to show it, and they get their money for the defense, and more.

beginning to sound like Running Man, here, jmho....

imho ymmv lrr

 

[Boxer]

beginning to sound like Running Man, here, jmho....

imho ymmv lrr

MOO Can’t make money in any way from your crime.

 

[CSIDreamer]

MOO Can’t make money in any way from your crime.

I think the original post was suggesting Carroll County profit from it in order to fund the public defender. Which sounds sketchy at best to me. JMO

 

[Boxer]

I think the original post was suggesting Carroll County profit from it in order to fund the public defender. Which sounds sketchy at best to me. JMO

Agree.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Just to clarify, WISHT-TV is nothing like Wish shopping, correct?