IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

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FromGermany1 said:
It would surprise me, if.
Click to expand...

My opinion is that eyewitness sketches are very often inaccurate anyway... people do not instantly memorize people's faces especially if nothing unusual is happening.

Think about it.. the last time TODAY you went to the bank, convenience store or drive thru at McDonalds.

Try to describe the face of the person who served you. Close your eyes...

See how difficult it is.

It would not surprise me that there were 2 different facial sketches from "witnesses"

However, describing what someone was wearing might be easier. Notice how when they are looking for someone they often say, last seen wearing a green jacket and black pants, for example.

Anyway, what do I know??
 
I just hope there is enough solid evidence to bring closure to the families of the girls - breaks my heart to see photos of them looking so young, beautiful and full of promise for positive productive lives that was taken from them. Sometimes in the past it even made me cry for the families and I don't know them.

I want the suspect to be treated fairly in jail as he waits for trial and I think he was being treated fairly. But I guess moving him gives less power to his defense about his treatment.

Finally the end is insight... JUSTICE PLEASE FOR THE GIRLS - hopefully it will bring answers and no doubt. Hopefully the modern touch DNA and other forensic tools, and other detective tools will totally close this case.

Regards
Laurel
 
Justice101 said:
My opinion is that eyewitness sketches are very often inaccurate anyway... people do not instantly memorize people's faces especially if nothing unusual is happening.

Think about it.. the last time TODAY you went to the bank, convenience store or drive thru at McDonalds.

Try to describe the face of the person who served you. Close your eyes...

See how difficult it is.

It would not surprise me that there were 2 different facial sketches from "witnesses"

However, describing what someone was wearing might be easier. Notice how when they are looking for someone they often say, last seen wearing a green jacket and black pants, for example.

Anyway, what do I know??
Click to expand...
I just heard on TV, that memory works at it's best, if the part of the brain, responsible for emotions, is affected while looking at someone. So a witness with great fear at that moment of watching someone/something would be a better witness, the expert said.
I rather had thought, your memory would be more incomplete, if you had for example a feeling of fear or similar while watching.
 
LaurelTedytamer said:
I just hope there is enough solid evidence to bring closure to the families of the girls - breaks my heart to see photos of them looking so young, beautiful and full of promise for positive productive lives that was taken from them. Sometimes in the past it even made me cry for the families and I don't know them.

I want the suspect to be treated fairly in jail as he waits for trial and I think he was being treated fairly. But I guess moving him gives less power to his defense about his treatment.

Finally the end is insight... JUSTICE PLEASE FOR THE GIRLS - hopefully it will bring answers and no doubt. Hopefully the modern touch DNA and other forensic tools, and other detective tools will totally close this case.

Regards
Laurel
Click to expand...

100% agree with you.

The families need to be able to move on in some respect. Those poor poor girls I think about often how horrifying it must have been for them. Then I get angry and want the perpetrator to pay heavily for that.
 
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
06/15/2023Hearing
Session:
06/15/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
Session:
06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

​

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access
public.courts.in.gov public.courts.in.gov
 
Thanks @steeltowngirl for the public record. Here's a condensed version of what actions took place:

04/20/2023
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
 
Justice101 said:
I wonder if the witnesses that saw BG: 1) The lady who was at the bridge who walked back away from the bridge as he was approaching it 2) the teens who saw him at Freedom Bridge and 3) person who saw him muddy and bloody near the road back to his car... are NOT the one that help make the YBG sketch?

If so, they won't be at trial.. unless the defense uses the discovery documents to identify who that person was who gave that description.

I still think the YBG sketch will ultimately end up being a nothingburger.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't the State call these witnesses? I think we'll hear from everyone that saw BG aka RA that day.

JMO
 
FrostedGlass said:
Thanks @steeltowngirl for the public record. Here's a condensed version of what actions took place:

04/20/2023
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Click to expand...
Do we know what it all means? My guess was that it might be a subpoena for medical records from IDOC or from a medical facility. Pursuant to HIPAA regulations.

But I’m simply guessing.
 
steeltowngirl said:
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.

File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Petition Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Motion Filed
State files Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
04/20/2023Subpoena/Summons Filed
Subpoena Duces Tecum filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
04/20/2023
06/15/2023Hearing
Session:
06/15/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
Session:
06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

​

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access
public.courts.in.gov public.courts.in.gov
Click to expand...
Interesting, unlike a search warrant, a subpoena duces tecum can be issued without a showing of probable cause.
 
girlhasnoname said:
Interesting, unlike a search warrant, a subpoena duces tecum can be issued without a showing of probable cause.
Click to expand...
Since I had absolutely no idea what a subpoena duces tecum is I had to Goog for it.

A subpoena duces tecum, or subpoena for production of evidence, is a court summons ordering the recipient to appear before the court and produce documents or other tangible evidence for use at a hearing or trial. In some jurisdictions, it can also be issued by legislative bodies such as county boards of supervisors. Wikipedia

and...

2018 Indiana Code
TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure
ARTICLE 34. BRINGING CRIMINAL CHARGES
CHAPTER 2. Grand Jury and Special Grand Jury
35-34-2-5. Subpoenas; contents; failure to obey; contempt​

Sec. 5. (a) A subpoena duces tecum or subpoena ad testificandum summoning a witness to appear before the grand jury shall be issued by the clerk upon the request of the grand jury or prosecuting attorney. The subpoena must contain a statement of the general nature of the grand jury inquiry.

(b) If the subpoena is issued to a target, the subpoena shall also contain a statement informing the target that:

(1) he is a subject of the grand jury investigation;

(2) he has the right to consult with an attorney and to be assisted by an attorney under section 13 of this chapter; and

(3) if he cannot afford an attorney, the court inpaneling the grand jury will appoint one for him, upon request.

(c) If a witness fails to appear at the time and place stated in the subpoena, the court may hold him in contempt of court, unless he had filed a motion to quash the subpoena and the motion has been granted or was pending at the time he was to have appeared.

law.justia.com

2018 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: ARTICLE 34. BRINGING CRIMINAL CHARGES :: CHAPTER 2. Grand Jury and Special Grand Jury :: 35-34-2-5. Subpoenas; contents; failure to obey; contempt

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes
law.justia.com law.justia.com
 
Doesn't each side usually just subpoena those who are going to testify for them? Is the State telling 4 of its witnesses to bring their proof?

What is the difference between a subpoena and subpoena duces tecum?
A subpoena is an Order that is issued to require the attendance of a witness to testify at a particular time and place. A subpoena duces tecum is an Order that requires a witness to bring documents, books or other items under his, her or their control, that he she or they is bound by law to produce into evidence.
 
raja said:
So does this mean that the subpoena is for RA or another person? Or could this be for just records such as medical records?
Click to expand...
From what I can glean it appears it could be either way.

The purpose of a subpoena duces tecum is to compel the production of evidence that may be relevant to the matter at hand. In federal criminal cases, it is a way to ensure that relevant evidence that could prove one's case is made available and not withheld.

The subpoena duces tecum can benefit either prosecutors or the defendant. For example, if you are being investigated for a federal crime and investigators believe there is evidence on your computer, they may serve you with a subpoena duces tecum ordering you to produce the computer for inspection.

On the other hand, if you're charged with a crime and someone possesses documentation or physical proof that you were not present at the scene of the crime (e.g., video footage), your defense attorney may procure a subpoena duces tecum to force that person to deliver the evidence to the court.

 

Third-Party Records in Sexual Offence Cases - Fact Sheet 3: The Record-Holder's Role in Applications for Third-Party Records

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site
www.justice.gc.ca www.justice.gc.ca

3. The Record-Holder's Role in Applications for Third-Party Records​

..................... (and more to follow)​

What is a Third-Party Record?​

A third-party record is a document or other record that has personal information about the victim or another witness. It's something that the victim could reasonably expect to be kept private. This means that it's something the victim never thought would be seen by other people.

Some examples of third-party records are

  • notes taken by a counsellor, therapist, psychologist or doctor
  • hospital records
  • records from a child welfare or social service agency
  • records from an employer or school, and
  • the victim's personal journals.
-.-.-.-

It is no sexual offence, I know,, but I think, it might be similar in a murder case perhaps?
 
Last edited:
steeltowngirl said:
Why does the set of petition filed / motion filed / subpoena filed appear 4x on the Indiana case search file, all on 4/20/23?

Were 4 different entities served?
Click to expand...
I think so. In other cases, I've seen the entities named. Remember way back in the beginning there were subpoena duces decum filed naming phone companies.
 
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