IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[katydid23]

RA did not have an attorney at that time. I've posted Leazenby's motion a couple of times; nowhere in it does it say there was a request from RA.

That article said court records showed it was by Allen's request for safety and protection. Was CNN making that up? It is confusing. Why would they say they saw court records indicating that?

 

[gremlin444]

Which happened first? Was RA moved from jail to the prison before this attorney was assigned or after? If after, the discussion about distance should have come up at that time.

I believe RA's attorneys are simply playing the usual games lawyers play. What a lucky coincidence for them that their urgent appeal was accidentally released....(rolling eyes)
JMO

I believe RA is guilty.

However, I do not understand why people keep hinting that the defense team "leaked" this request document to the public. It was released through the justice system portal. Many news agencies downloaded it before it was taken down. Those that weren't able to get it before then got copies from other news agencies who had already downloaded it and have cited this in their articles.

Are people thinking that the defense team bribed some clerk whose job it is to deal with the electronic filings?

Am I missing something here?

This has happened before in this case with Kagan Kline's interview transcript. Why is it so unbelievable for it to happen again now?

 

[WingsOverTX]

I believe RA is guilty.

However, I do not understand why people keep hinting that the defense team "leaked" this request document to the public. It was released through the justice system portal. Many news agencies downloaded it before it was taken down. Those that weren't able to get it before then got copies from other news agencies who had already downloaded it and have cited this in their articles.

Are people thinking that the defense team bribed some clerk whose job it is to deal with the electronic filings?

Am I missing something here?

This has happened before in this case with Kagan Kline's interview transcript. Why is it so unbelievable for it to happen again now?

I agree it is probably an inadvertent error by a clerk. However, in a high profile case with a gag order, any release of documents not intended for public viewing raises legitimate questions, IMO.

I wouldn't want to be the clerk who defied the gag order, intentional or not.

Any repeat of such an event in any high profile case would likely raise the concern of the judge so it seems appropriate to question it.

I realize others may find the speculation specious and pointless. If not for the gag order, it probably wouldn't raise eyebrows.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

So…

RA’s trial is scheduled for June. If his defense team believes there is not enough evidence to convict RA, then it’s in his best interests to get him to trial, acquitted, and released.

Move RA to Cass County Jail until then, and get on with it.
I’m ok with that. Do what they need to do to keep him safe and competent to stand trial.

I’m here for Libby and Abby.

 

[FrostedGlass]

So…

RA’s trial is scheduled for June. If his defense team believes there is not enough evidence to convict RA, then it’s in his best interests to get him to trial, acquitted, and released.

Move RA to Cass County Jail until then, and get on with it.
I’m ok with that. Do what they need to do to keep him safe and competent to stand trial.

I’m here for Libby and Abby.

You're too eager.

06/15/2023

Hearing Session: 06/15/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

 

[FrostedGlass]

That article said court records showed it was by Allen's request for safety and protection. Was CNN making that up? It is confusing. Why would they say they saw court records indicating that?

That's a good question. It's on record as being Leazenby's motion and no mention of a request from RA.

11/03/2022

Motion Filed Request by the Sheriff of Carroll County, Indiana to Transfer Inmate from the Custody of the Sheriff to the Custody of the Indiana Department of Corrections for Safekeeping filed. Filed By: Carroll County Sheriff's Department File Stamp: 11/03/2022

 

[steeltowngirl]

You're too eager.

06/15/2023

Hearing Session: 06/15/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

Oh dear, you’re right! June is just the bail hearing.

Delphi Murders Trial May Be Far, Far Away

DELPHI, Ind. -- If you're waiting for answers in the Delphi murders case, you may have to wait much longer than originally thought.

wibc.com

 

[sunshineray]

I posted the articles to help people understand the problem with his current incarceration. Did you read them?

I fully understand that many are 100% convinced that RA is guilty and is deserving of whatever treatment he's getting. It's OK to argue their opinion for feeling that way. However, we still have laws and the accused still have rights; they are spelled out clearly (for those who understand the wording).

Of course he's innocent until proven guilty. It's also been decided by a judge he should be held without bail. That in itself means, according to a judge, the prosecution has proven to that judge that the public is safer that way. If his attorneys think their client is in poor physical and/or mental health, why haven't they ask the court for intervention to get their client looked at by medical and psychiatric doctors outside of the prison system?

I did read them which is why I commented on the 4 year prisoner being used wrongly as an example, IMO...and AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

A reliable alternative to an in-person attorney/Incarcerated Individuals visit is to schedule a confidential phone call. Incarcerated Individuals must have the attorney's phone number added to their approved telephone list. All calls are to be 'collect calls' unless the Incarcerated Individuals utilizes prepaid minutes."


I can't see any attorney being able to go over the mountain of witness information, possible testimony and evidence without being able to look at the documents in person with the client. Let alone on a phone call that has to fit into the prison's schedule of allowing RA his turn of using a tablet and a place to view the case file.
Those that put forth the argument that RA's location can be worked around and his attorney can adequately prepare trial this way, in my opinion, are disregarding the requirement that the attorneys give RA the best defense possible and not are acknowledging that this situation could be used for appeal. The idea that moving him to a jail is "special treatment" is incorrect. You are objecting to him being treated/housed the same as 99% or more, of defendants awaiting trials.
Feeling sorry for RA has nothing to do with my opinions, justice for the victims and a fair trial, not compromised by constitutional issues is what is important. If a judge decides to keep him where he is, I will presume that she/he/they have good reasons.

You'd think in this day and age it would be possible to have face to face remotely easy enough. Corporations do it all the time with remote employees and the courts do it as well. It's just ridiculous to me a room hasn't been set up in this prison for such conferencing. It can't be that much of a cost?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Of course he's innocent until proven guilty. It's also been decided by a judge he should be held without bail. That in itself means, according to a judge, the prosecution has proven to that judge that the public is safer that way. If his attorneys think their client is in poor physical and/or mental health, why haven't they ask the court for intervention to get their client looked at by medical and psychiatric doctors outside of the prison system?

I did read them which is why I commented on the 4 year prisoner being used wrongly as an example, IMO...and AJMO

In Indiana, it's typical for those charged with murder to be held without bond.

They want him out of the asap; so they aren't asking for intervention, IMO. He has the legal right to request being moved from there. I can't find any timeframe for such a request to be made. Since the sheriff cited "potential safety and security concerns", who knows how a move back to Carroll Co would go. Do "potential concerns" carry the same legal weight as "danger of serious bodily injury/death"?

Link to post-transfer hearing

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 33. Preliminary Proceedings :: Chapter 11. Emergency Transfer of Certain Jail Inmates :: 35-33-11-2. Posttransfer Hearing

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[sunshineray]

In Indiana, it's typical for those charged with murder to be held without bond.

They want him out of the asap; so they aren't asking for intervention, IMO. He has the legal right to request being moved from there. I can't find any timeframe for such a request to be made. Since the sheriff cited "potential safety and security concerns", who knows how a move back to Carroll Co would go. Do "potential concerns" carry the same legal weight as "danger of serious bodily injury/death"?

Link to post-transfer hearing

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 33. Preliminary Proceedings :: Chapter 11. Emergency Transfer of Certain Jail Inmates :: 35-33-11-2. Posttransfer Hearing

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Good question. I'm thinking that "danger...serious" would trump "potential...concerns"?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

You'd think in this day and age it would be possible to have face to face remotely easy enough. Corporations do it all the time with remote employees and the courts do it as well. It's just ridiculous to me a room hasn't been set up in this prison for such conferencing. It can't be that much of a cost?

Prisons contract with a third party for inmates to have communications with family and attorneys. Courts and corporations are not charging individuals a premium when they are, for instance, in a zoom meeting and no one has to guard them.
When you are in a prison, all use of any communication is monitored, staff is required to move them from the cell, to a room and stay to monitor them and take them back to the cell. They have limited visits and phone call times are all prescheduled from available time slots on a calendar. If there is a staffing shortage or any other problem at the prison, your appointment can be canceled. If you think a third-party collect call phone system is safe, look at the illegally released attorney/client recording that was released in the Murdaugh case.

I already posted the information about visiting at that prison, it's restrictive. It has to be to keep everyone safe while probably being understaffed. Compare it to the free access that attorneys have to clients in federal detention centers. I think it's a matter of priorities and staffing. I don't think the prison is able to accommodate the needs of an attorney/client trying to prepare for a death penalty trial. Again, RA's situation is unusual. MOO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/30/staggeringly-high-price-prison-phone-call/

 

[sunshineray]

Prisons contract with a third party for inmates to have communications with family and attorneys. Courts and corporations are not charging individuals a premium when they are, for instance, in a zoom meeting and no one has to guard them.
When you are in a prison, all use of any communication is monitored, staff is required to move them from the cell, to a room and stay to monitor them and take them back to the cell. They have limited visits and phone call times are all prescheduled from available time slots on a calendar. If there is a staffing shortage or any other problem at the prison, your appointment can be canceled. If you think a third-party collect call phone system is safe, look at the illegally released attorney/client recording that was released in the Murdaugh case.

I already posted the information about visiting at that prison, it's restrictive. It has to be to keep everyone safe while probably being understaffed. Compare it to the free access that attorneys have to clients in federal detention centers. I think it's a matter of priorities and staffing. I don't think the prison is able to accommodate the needs of an attorney/client trying to prepare for a death penalty trial. Again, RA's situation is unusual. MOO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/30/staggeringly-high-price-prison-phone-call/

Sounds like it's a system that needs to be fixed.
When a prisoner meets with his attorney face to face in prison isn't that in a room just by themselves, guard outside the door? How can they share attorney/client priviledge if not?

Can't a walled big screen tv be set up in a room and they can conference that way, with the prisoner cuffed to the table if necessary?

I just don't see what the huge insurmountable problem is with using technology for private conferences with lawyers...especially when an accused is facing life imprisonment or the death penalty. States need to fund communications better and stop farming out for inferior systems that don't meet needs. AJMO

 

[mrjitty]

I'm fine with the prisoner not being held under these conditions pre-trial. IMO no one should be.

It's hard to have too much sympathy with defence arguments about "constitutional innocence' when they agreed to such a long delay in the bail hearing.

 

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[StarryStarryNight]

Prisons contract with a third party for inmates to have communications with family and attorneys. Courts and corporations are not charging individuals a premium when they are, for instance, in a zoom meeting and no one has to guard them.
When you are in a prison, all use of any communication is monitored, staff is required to move them from the cell, to a room and stay to monitor them and take them back to the cell. They have limited visits and phone call times are all prescheduled from available time slots on a calendar. If there is a staffing shortage or any other problem at the prison, your appointment can be canceled. If you think a third-party collect call phone system is safe, look at the illegally released attorney/client recording that was released in the Murdaugh case.

I already posted the information about visiting at that prison, it's restrictive. It has to be to keep everyone safe while probably being understaffed. Compare it to the free access that attorneys have to clients in federal detention centers. I think it's a matter of priorities and staffing. I don't think the prison is able to accommodate the needs of an attorney/client trying to prepare for a death penalty trial. Again, RA's situation is unusual. MOO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/30/staggeringly-high-price-prison-phone-call/

BBM
This is incorrect. A judge ruled that the phone calls release was proper under the FOIA which is how they were requested.
Murdaugh and all inmates at the jail were informed and repeatedly reminded that phone calls were recorded.
None of Murdaugh’s calls were between attorney and client which makes their release irrelevant to the discussion here.

Judge denies Murdaugh effort to block release of jailhouse phone calls

An effort by Alex Murdaugh's lawyers to stop the release of outgoing phone calls made while the embattled attorney was behind bars was unsuccessful, according to a court order issued June 1. Senior United States District Judge Cameron McGowan Currie denied the effort from attorneys Dick...

wpde.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder if we will know when a decision is made. Vine had RA in Carroll County when his atty filed the motion and it's still showing that he's there.

https://vinelink.vineapps.com/search/IN/Person

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

BBM
This is incorrect. A judge ruled that the phone calls release was proper under the FOIA which is how they were requested.
Murdaugh and all inmates at the jail were informed and repeatedly reminded that phone calls were recorded.
None of Murdaugh’s calls were between attorney and client which makes their release irrelevant to the discussion here.

Judge denies Murdaugh effort to block release of jailhouse phone calls

An effort by Alex Murdaugh's lawyers to stop the release of outgoing phone calls made while the embattled attorney was behind bars was unsuccessful, according to a court order issued June 1. Senior United States District Judge Cameron McGowan Currie denied the effort from attorneys Dick...

wpde.com

"Convicted murderer Alex Murdaugh's lawyer is "mad as hell" after a South Carolina jail accidentally released a recorded phone call between him and his client to a true crime podcast. "Yeah, that's me, and I'm mad as hell," attorney Jim Griffin told Fox News Digital, identifying his voice in the audio clip"

Any chance some attorneys don't trust a recorded system? If you remove this concern, the phone call situation is still very problematic, this doesn't change or improve anything, if calls are only purported to be private.

The attorney says it's his voice on the recording and they were discussing trial strategy.

Alex Murdaugh's lawyer 'mad as hell' after jail call released

Alex Murdaugh's jail call with an attorney during his trial was accidentally released, and a lawyer for the convicted killer is fuming over the breach.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Justice101]

Where he is housed (or how he is treated for that matter) has no bearing on the murder case.

If RA or his lawyers want to file a complaint or grievance, etc.... then that becomes an entity to itself.

But then again, I am not a lawyer.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here's a new podcast from MS

The Delphi Murders: Inside the Westville Correctional Facility

Richard Allen's attorneys last week filed a motion that put conditions at the Westville Correctional Facility at the top of everyone's mind. To get more context, we spoke with Kevin Smith, who spent some time incarcerated there. He shared his experiences and insights with us. Kevin's life has...

art19.com