IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

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TL4S said:
It seems so easy to break down the Delphi murders as a random, opportunistic crime, committed by a lone predator. It's the logical solution.

A lone predator who has lived in the area for decades, yet we have never seen another crime like this, in the area, during any of that time. A random, opportunistic crime which led to a complex, fascinating investigation, needing a larger space for investigators, with LE and the prosecutor wanting to hold back most information from the public. A crime scene that was described as "odd" with "signatures." One of the victims is linked to a known catfisher and the FBI thinks this kind of criminal would take photos or otherwise memorialize the crime. LE and the prosecutor wants everything sealed, above and beyond what is normal, and claims they have "good reason to believe" others are involved.

But it all means nothing because a 44-year-old man suddenly brought some long-standing fantasy to fruition because in all the times he'd been to the trails hunting he'd never had an opportunity before. He always parked concealed-like, a mile from the planned CS, carrying weapons, and decided to take two victims on his first, middle-aged go-around at murder. The prosecutor was just covering his bases when he claimed they believe others were involved, JH was just blowing smoke when he wrote an affidavit to the judge on why they should keep the PCA sealed, and DC was just being dramatic about the tentacles.

In the end, maybe RA really did simply see an opportunity and take it, and it just took LE that long, with lots of avenues to investigate, to find him. Or, maybe there is more to what happened than any of us knows.
Click to expand...
Great summary.
 
For anyone who couldn't listen, here are a few things Shay Hughes had to say from MS podcast:
RA's move to prison: SH never had a client who was moved and could only remember one in a similar circumstance. There may be something raised about the legality of it.
RA's competency: doubts that will be an issue. Attys need their clients to be healthy and sharp if they testify.
Subpoena Duces Tecum: the state is trying to obtain evidence from a third party (one who is not an agent of the state or defense), could be anything. Sealing is ok depending on the info in the subpoena.
Secrecy: ISP violating IN law by refusing to release the booking info to the reporter; opinions on the prosecutor's and judge's involvement are coming. (*See PAC link below)
Importance of Public Access: (SHs words)
It goes to the integrity of the justice system. We should be made aware of it so we can evaluate it ourselves, there shouldn't be this different treatment because of the nature of the case. The public has a vested interest in its judicial system and should know what's going on with law enforcement, the judge and so forth. You can imagine if things were kept private, kept in the dark, what would utilmately transpire. It would be difficult to hold folks accountable, we would probably see injustice going on, people receiving different sentences and so forth, with no one being held accountable, if everything was left confidential or private.
Bond Hearing: nothing unusual about the time frame. How the judge decides will likely influence public perception. The state will have to present evidence and try to narrow the timeline. Defense may try to broaden the timeline.
******
If anyone wants to watch for the advisory opinions from the Public Access Councilor, here's the link:

Advisory Opinions

www.in.gov www.in.gov

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Emergency Motion, Subpoenas, and More with the Hoosier Public Defender

The Murder Sheet interviewed a public defender in Indiana about the developments in the case against Richard Allen. We spoke about the emergency motion, a few sealed subpoenas, and the air of secrecy around the case. Follow the Hoosier Public Defender on Twitter at @publicdefender_ or here...
art19.com art19.com
 
FrostedGlass said:
For anyone who couldn't listen, here are a few things Shay Hughes had to say from MS podcast:
RA's move to prison: SH never had a client who was moved and could only remember one in a similar circumstance. There may be something raised about the legality of it.
RA's competency: doubts that will be an issue. Attys need their clients to be healthy and sharp if they testify.
Subpoena Duces Tecum: the state is trying to obtain evidence from a third party (one who is not an agent of the state or defense), could be anything. Sealing is ok depending on the info in the subpoena.
Secrecy: ISP violating IN law by refusing to release the booking info to the reporter; opinions on the prosecutor's and judge's involvement are coming. (*See PAC link below)
Importance of Public Access: (SHs words)
It goes to the integrity of the justice system. We should be made aware of it so we can evaluate it ourselves, there shouldn't be this different treatment because of the nature of the case. The public has a vested interest in its judicial system and should know what's going on with law enforcement, the judge and so forth. You can imagine if things were kept private, kept in the dark, what would utilmately transpire. It would be difficult to hold folks accountable, we would probably see injustice going on, people receiving different sentences and so forth, with no one being held accountable, if everything was left confidential or private.
Bond Hearing: nothing unusual about the time frame. How the judge decides will likely influence public perception. The state will have to present evidence and try to narrow the timeline. Defense may try to broaden the timeline.
******
If anyone wants to watch for the advisory opinions from the Public Access Councilor, here's the link:

Advisory Opinions

www.in.gov www.in.gov

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Emergency Motion, Subpoenas, and More with the Hoosier Public Defender

The Murder Sheet interviewed a public defender in Indiana about the developments in the case against Richard Allen. We spoke about the emergency motion, a few sealed subpoenas, and the air of secrecy around the case. Follow the Hoosier Public Defender on Twitter at @publicdefender_ or here...
art19.com art19.com
Click to expand...
Thank you for doing this for us, @FrostedGlass!!
 
FrostedGlass said:
For anyone who couldn't listen, here are a few things Shay Hughes had to say from MS podcast:
RA's move to prison: SH never had a client who was moved and could only remember one in a similar circumstance. There may be something raised about the legality of it.
RA's competency: doubts that will be an issue. Attys need their clients to be healthy and sharp if they testify.
Subpoena Duces Tecum: the state is trying to obtain evidence from a third party (one who is not an agent of the state or defense), could be anything. Sealing is ok depending on the info in the subpoena.
Secrecy: ISP violating IN law by refusing to release the booking info to the reporter; opinions on the prosecutor's and judge's involvement are coming. (*See PAC link below)
Importance of Public Access: (SHs words)
It goes to the integrity of the justice system. We should be made aware of it so we can evaluate it ourselves, there shouldn't be this different treatment because of the nature of the case. The public has a vested interest in its judicial system and should know what's going on with law enforcement, the judge and so forth. You can imagine if things were kept private, kept in the dark, what would utilmately transpire. It would be difficult to hold folks accountable, we would probably see injustice going on, people receiving different sentences and so forth, with no one being held accountable, if everything was left confidential or private.
Bond Hearing: nothing unusual about the time frame. How the judge decides will likely influence public perception. The state will have to present evidence and try to narrow the timeline. Defense may try to broaden the timeline.
******
If anyone wants to watch for the advisory opinions from the Public Access Councilor, here's the link:

Advisory Opinions

www.in.gov www.in.gov

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Emergency Motion, Subpoenas, and More with the Hoosier Public Defender

The Murder Sheet interviewed a public defender in Indiana about the developments in the case against Richard Allen. We spoke about the emergency motion, a few sealed subpoenas, and the air of secrecy around the case. Follow the Hoosier Public Defender on Twitter at @publicdefender_ or here...
art19.com art19.com
Click to expand...
Thank you for your presence, FrostedGlass.

RA's move to prison: SH never had a client who was moved and could only remember one in a similar circumstance. There may be something raised about the legality of it.

NOV 3 - 4, 2022
Carroll County sheriff requests Delphi murder suspect be transferred for safety

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby on Thursday (NOV 3) filed a motion requesting that Allen, 50, be transferred from the county jail to a state prison "for safekeeping."

Carroll County Circuit Court judge Benjamin A. Diener signed the request Thursday morning."


RA was arrested on OCT 26, 2022. Eight days later, the Sheriff felt he could not protect RA in his jail so he requested the Circuit Court Judge to grant his motion to move the inmate to a state prison. No, wait. It was seven days later.

NOV 4, 2022
Public's 'blood lust' for info reason for transfer in Delphi case

"According to a court order filed Thursday by the Carroll County Circuit Court, 50-year-old Richard Allen’s transfer is reportedly due in part to the “imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death,” and the “substantial threat to the safety of others.

The original request for transfer was filed on Wednesday by Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

... court order granting Leazenby’s request, court officials cited the “toxic and harmful insistence on public information” regarding Allen and the case in general as one of the main factors in the transfer.

The order even noted that Allen reportedly showed up to his initial hearing last week in “protective gear,” < >, not to protect the defendant from the court, but to protect him from the public."

NOV 2, 2022
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/carroll-county-sheriff-tobe-leazenby-describes-arrest-of-delphi-suspect-as-a-sense-of-relief/
Sheriff Leazenby, despite the arrest of RA on OCT 26, never states to the reporter any concerns for RAs safety on NOV 2. However, he files the motion to transfer the next morning.

"Despite an arrest and the nearly 70,000 tips, investigators are adamant that the work is just getting started. The tip line remains open. If you know anything that can help the case, call (765) 822-3535."

From PharosTribune: "court officials cited the “toxic and harmful insistence on public information” regarding Allen and the case in general as one of the main factors in the transfer."

Why is the public being accused as a main factor in transferring RA to a state prison? I watched video when RA arrived at court and no one even hollered at him. If anyone has sources of threats to Allen's life, please quote reply. TY
Who determined Westville Correctional Facility would be the state prison to house RA?

The trial will be held in Carroll Co. Jurors will be brought from outside of CC. So, RA can't remain in county jail bc of reasons of endangerment to his safety mentioned above, yet he's safe enough to be tried in CC.

JAN 13, 2022
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/heres-what-happened-during-richard-allens-hearing-in-the-delphi-case/
"The judge [Gull] also said she couldn’t see how the trial could involve Carroll County jurors. It would be “difficult if not impossible” to find jurors in Carroll County ...

At the same time, she couldn’t see a way for the trial to be held outside of Carroll County, given the convenience of the witnesses. She said the costs to move the trial to another county would be “extraordinary.”

The solution will involve bringing in jurors from an outside county."

Who knows how long this murder trial will last but sequestering a jury for weeks, possibly a month, or longer, is not a prudent decision. jmhoo I've watched several, nay, many trials with sequestered jurors who become anxious being away from their normal support systems for extended periods of time.

This case will involve horrific details that some jurors may not be capable of discerning without emotions over the scary kidnapping and brutal murders of young girls. However, not for the purpose of seeking justice but due to financial reasons, the trial will be held in CC? Many witnesses in the Murdaugh trial were flown in to testify. Was it convenient for those witnesses?

The Gov of Idaho gave the Latah Co prosecutors a million dollars to aid in the investigation and prosecution of the murders of 4 college students. Why can't the Gov of IN do the same? Also, the Prosecutor NMc should not play games by insinuating others may be involved. It further confuses the public and scares the local community. jmhoo

How terrifying and shocking to the D community to know the alleged killer lived and worked among them. I can only imagine. AMOO
 
This falls at random.

I believe the threats to RA were so numerous and so substantial, that they had to move him out of the local jail for his own safety.

I can imagine people in the community and elsewhere threatening to do bodily harm to RA, to take justice into their own hands. Can you imagine the shock and anger the locals must have felt knowing they had interacted and some probably been friendly with RA before his arrest?

This crime has stirred an outrage, rightly so IMO, in people that runs deep. These innocent girls were slaughtered by someone in their very own town. It is a small local LE and jail who were not equipped to handle ensuring RA's safety until time for a trial against a mob mentality.

MOO
 
girlhasnoname said:
This falls at random.

I believe the threats to RA were so numerous and so substantial, that they had to move him out of the local jail for his own safety.

I can imagine people in the community and elsewhere threatening to do bodily harm to RA, to take justice into their own hands. Can you imagine the shock and anger the locals must have felt knowing they had interacted and some probably been friendly with RA before his arrest?

This crime has stirred an outrage, rightly so IMO, in people that runs deep. These innocent girls were slaughtered by someone in their very own town. It is a small local LE and jail who were not equipped to handle ensuring RA's safety until time for a trial against a mob mentality.

MOO
Click to expand...
It maybe doesn't help that the suspect is a seemingly normal individual of society, who is local with a good job and family. Just another worker bee.

JMO, but if the arrested had ended up being someone much scarier, perhaps people would be more apt to let LE handle him. IDK.

A guest on MS also suggested that it's possible the jail couldn't protect RA from LE... There were a lot of peeved off people around Delphi that day.
 
@DeDee Thanks. It's always good to see you here, too.

Regarding RA's move: He was almost immediately moved from Carroll Co. jail to White Co. according to SH in the MS podcast. Since his initial hearing didn't have a time listed in MyCase, I went back though DoxPop to find the time but the case is not there. Which I find a bit unusual... maybe I'll check White Co. cases.

16:40 mm
art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Emergency Motion, Subpoenas, and More with the Hoosier Public Defender

The Murder Sheet interviewed a public defender in Indiana about the developments in the case against Richard Allen. We spoke about the emergency motion, a few sealed subpoenas, and the air of secrecy around the case. Follow the Hoosier Public Defender on Twitter at @publicdefender_ or here...
art19.com art19.com

You asked if anyone had sources for threats on RA's life, I haven't seen any in the docs I've read. I'll have to find Leazenby's motion to have him moved. It seems like his wording was a bit vague as to threats. IMO, Diener got spooked and neither one of them wanted to deal with him. According to Diener, Youtube hosts content about his family members, including photos.
www.wishtv.com

Delphi suspect Allen to be moved to state facility; judge decries 'blood lust' for information

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — A man charged in the killings of two teenagers in 2017 will be moved from a county jail to a state facility. Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby filed a request Thursday to transfer Richard Allen to the Indiana Department of Corrections. That request was subsequently...
www.wishtv.com www.wishtv.com

It's also worth noting that Diener writes that RA needed to retain council within 20 days of his initial hearing.
 
I found what I was looking for at doxpop

10/28/2022
Input Date:Unavailable
Type:Order Issued
(Judicial Officer: Diener, Benjamin A.)
Court finds that probable cause does exist. Court sets bond in the sum of
twenty million dollars cash or corporate surety. Initial hearing is set for
Oct. 28, 2022, at 10:30 a.m. per form.
Noticed: Allen, Richard M.
Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles
Order Signed: 10/28/2022

Doxpop

www.doxpop.com www.doxpop.com
 
TL4S said:
...
A guest on MS also suggested that it's possible the jail couldn't protect RA from LE... There were a lot of peeved off people around Delphi that day.
Click to expand...
RSBM for focus. That's an interesting suggestion to ponder. Of all the things that have crossed my mind in this case, that was never one of them.
 
TL4S said:
It maybe doesn't help that the suspect is a seemingly normal individual of society, who is local with a good job and family. Just another worker bee.

JMO, but if the arrested had ended up being someone much scarier, perhaps people would be more apt to let LE handle him. IDK.

A guest on MS also suggested that it's possible the jail couldn't protect RA from LE... There were a lot of peeved off people around Delphi that day.
Click to expand...

A lot of us were angry, some still are, at BG for murdering these lovely girls whose young lives were just beginning. Some may not know or realize that I was the one who originally gave the killer the acronym BG for Bridge Guy. Up until then, which was only a few days after their deaths, we'd called him the UnSub or perp. I felt he needed a specific ID, and BG fit.

I became deeply impacted by the brutality of snatching two girls from a public walking trail in broad daylight and leaving their dead bodies alongside Deer Creek. I left WS for well over a year due to the tragedy triggering PTSD. It's the reason I don't post in their threads often.

To make a long story short, I am over the shock, the anger, the grief. RA means nothing to me. He is a NoBody who doesn't deserve my attentions. I want him to be placed in front of a firing squad. I choose to remember Libby's love for nature, her friends, playing in multiple sports and an interest in criminology. I remember Abby as a sweet, humble, kind and loyal friend and daughter who dearly loved her Grandpa. That is how I carry them in my pocket today.
 
Last edited:
TL4S said:
It seems so easy to break down the Delphi murders as a random, opportunistic crime, committed by a lone predator. It's the logical solution.

A lone predator who has lived in the area for decades, yet we have never seen another crime like this, in the area, during any of that time. A random, opportunistic crime which led to a complex, fascinating investigation, needing a larger space for investigators, with LE and the prosecutor wanting to hold back most information from the public. A crime scene that was described as "odd" with "signatures." One of the victims is linked to a known catfisher and the FBI thinks this kind of criminal would take photos or otherwise memorialize the crime. LE and the prosecutor wants everything sealed, above and beyond what is normal, and claims they have "good reason to believe" others are involved.

But it all means nothing because a 44-year-old man suddenly brought some long-standing fantasy to fruition because in all the times he'd been to the trails hunting he'd never had an opportunity before. He always parked concealed-like, a mile from the planned CS, carrying weapons, and decided to take two victims on his first, middle-aged go-around at murder. The prosecutor was just covering his bases when he claimed they believe others were involved, JH was just blowing smoke when he wrote an affidavit to the judge on why they should keep the PCA sealed, and DC was just being dramatic about the tentacles.

In the end, maybe RA really did simply see an opportunity and take it, and it just took LE that long, with lots of avenues to investigate, to find him. Or, maybe there is more to what happened than any of us knows.
Click to expand...
The Prosecution has said,


“We believe Richard Allen is not the only actor involved in this,” Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said during a court hearing Tuesday, according to WTHR."


I've got to take them at their word on this. It especially makes sense with KAK's actions and RL's PCA had some disturbing things in it that I'm still not convinced he did just because he was afraid of a DUI probation violation. AJMO


www.google.com

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen may not have acted alone, arrests could be imminent

An Indiana man accused of killing two teenage girls in the infamous Delphi murder case may not have acted alone, prosecutors said Tuesday.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
UnapologeticallyAspie said:
I meant witness protection.
Click to expand...

I don’t think that’s usually what witness protection means. And RA’s wife can’t be compelled to testify against him (not saying she won’t).

If you mean are they being protected somehow from vigilantes/violent mobs or whatever, I don’t think the government usually does that for families of people charged with crimes, even high profile ones. If I had to guess, I would assume they’re staying with family or friends and keeping an extremely low profile. Due to the nature of the crime, I don’t think “respectable” media sources would hound the wife and daughter or out their location.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
 
ArianeEmory said:
I don’t think that’s usually what witness protection means. And RA’s wife can’t be compelled to testify against him (not saying she won’t).

If you mean are they being protected somehow from vigilantes/violent mobs or whatever, I don’t think the government usually does that for families of people charged with crimes, even high profile ones. If I had to guess, I would assume they’re staying with family or friends and keeping an extremely low profile. Due to the nature of the crime, I don’t think “respectable” media sources would hound the wife and daughter or out their location.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
Click to expand...
It's the not respectable media that would hound or out them...unfortunately nowadays that includes anyone with a smartphone and a wish to be sensational.
 
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