IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

Status
Not open for further replies.
I give myself quite a talking to, then I roll my eyes back at myself, which causes me to send myself to my room, where I pout for awhile until I realize the errors of my ways followed by a brief period of self loathing, then I tell myself I have learned my lesson and promise to try not do it again. There are hugs, a few tears, and eventually…ice cream.
I am crying rn !!! Thank you, I needed a good laugh/cry!
 
All I know is what I read from MS, which I quoted. If you've seen something to the contrary, other than opinion, it would be helpful if you can link to it.

I think because we all come from different backgrounds and draw from different experiences, our understanding is not always the same.

What I get from what MS wrote below is the defence was required to list with the court who discovery was planned to be shared with by specifying the capacity of all those who would be supporting them (also could include an array of legal consultants) so the judge has a means of knowing how many tentacles discovery material is extending out to. It’s not the judge being charged with approving each individual person, it’s that the attorneys are pledging to ensure that each of those persons are trustworthy and sign confidentiality agreements.

By agreeing to this the defence is taking full responsibility for any future leaks, why the leaks are described as “catastrophic”. It’s impossible for the Judge to ensure everyone who’s associated with the defence is trustworthy.

JMO

“The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. And those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.”
 
Last edited:
Cain says she has seen no evidence that either of Allen’s court-appointed lawyers had any hand in leaking these documents.

The defense attorneys previously had caught the attention of the court for leaked documents. In the spring, discovery documents were leaked, and Baldwin accepted responsibility.
Leaked documents could put Delphi murders case in jeopardy

Does anyone really believe that the defense, who admitted having leaked previous discovery IN THIS CASE, had nothing to do with the leak of the highly incendiary crime scene photos just as the dust is settling on their Motion for the Public, er Press, er Court to consider the Odinism flight of fancy?

I think not. I am not nearly so gullible as that. And conveniently the former employee wasn't even on the RA case just worked at the firm? Somebody set the employee up to it. Nobody will convince me otherwise.

The defense is playing a dangerous game MOO

The timing is too unusual to be entirely coincidental, IMO that makes sense. I’d sure hope the leak of crime scene photos isn’t connected to runes and antlers.

The drama will heighten with each passing day before “M” is be charged with Contempt charges, or maybe he cooperates and implicates others.

It’s an excellent opportunity for a strong precedent to be set. Leaks like this just shouldn’t happen, no matter how curious the public is.

ETA- Why the leak benefits the defence, according to Greenlee -


And in addition to the pain it would cause the family members, it would also potentially infringe upon Richard Allen's rights because … people seeing these pictures could get inflamed with anger and passion and that could potentially taint the jury pool," Greenlee said….”
 
Last edited:
Knowingly receiving court prohibited photos would also be a crime. And passing them on.

So I know of 2 Youtube channel investigators (Murder Sheet as well as Gray Hughes) both have seem the pictures.. so I wonder if the anonomous source sent to both of them or if one sent to the other.

they are competitors so I am thinking the source of the leaked photos sent to both simultaneously.
 
Knowingly receiving court prohibited photos would also be a crime. And passing them on.

So I know of 2 Youtube channel investigators (Murder Sheet as well as Gray Hughes) both have seem the pictures.. so I wonder if the anonomous source sent to both of them or if one sent to the other.

they are competitors so I am thinking the source of the leaked photos sent to both simultaneously.
Murder Sheet and Gray also had some kind of falling out around a year ago- I won't say anymore because the topic is kind of gossipy for Websleuths (and it's also just not that interesting imo LOL) but you can Google it if you're curious. MS didn't say much but Gray made it clear he was offended by them. I don't think either party would have shared the photos anyway but knowing that bit of drama makes me even surer.
 
Last edited:
Murder Sheet and Gray also had some kind of falling out around a year ago- I won't say anymore because the topic is kind of gossipy for Websleuths (and it's also just not that interesting imo LOL) but you can Google it if you're curious. MS didn't say much but Gray made it clear he was offended by them. I don't think either party would have shared the photos anyway but knowing that bit of drama makes me even surer.

Good info. It does sound like they received independently..

Question: Does the court order to suppress all evidence from being released also apply to the public at large??? As in the case of the FORMER employee?
 
Names and places went right over my head when I initially read this below. But doing a little digging, if these messages from the leaker are indeed authentic, it directly implicates either Baldwin or someone very close to him. What’s both perplexing and incriminating is why this ex-associate who hadn’t worked for Baldwin on this case is talking about “going down on Saturday”? JMO

BBM
“In another message from earlier this month, the Facebook author writes he is supposed to go to Franklin* during the upcoming weekend and that he just wants, “a fair fight,” for the defense while blasting the prosecution.

That was followed up by a handful of messages from Oct. 5 as the same participant refers to, “my guy,” and, “He’s going to be with Andy** tonight. He was talking about me going down Saturday.”..”

* Franklin in the location of Baldwin’s law office.
** Andy, short for Andrew, just happens to be Baldwin’s first name.
 
Question: Does the court order to suppress all evidence from being released also apply to the public at large??? As in the case of the FORMER employee?

If a former employee signed a non-disclosure agreement, sometimes referred to as a confidentiality agreement, that’s a legal contract that does NOT become void upon getting fired or resigning from the company. There’s good reason for that, it prevents a someone from quitting in the future to deliberately have the opportunity to blab.
 
The latest MS clears up some of the questions. The leaker is an associate/friend who left the firm in good standing some years ago. He stops in to see them from time-to-time. I took MS comments to mean they probably also asked his opinion on an occasional case.

So the blame can be placed right on Baldwin's head.
The leaker should have absolutely known better.
All receivers of the girls' photos should have known better.

IMO, blame all around.

 
Ya know ...
We could all just focus on our holiday cleaning if RA would simply confess.

;)
I mean, he's done that something like five times! And half the people who know this do not believe he did so, or believe he did so under duress from Odins in the corrections facility!
 
The latest MS clears up some of the questions. The leaker is an associate/friend who left the firm in good standing some years ago. He stops in to see them from time-to-time. I took MS comments to mean they probably also asked his opinion on an occasional case.

So the blame can be placed right on Baldwin's head.
The leaker should have absolutely known better.
All receivers of the girls' photos should have known better.

IMO, blame all around.


I saw that same information.
A former co-worker and still close friend is privy to this highly sensitive material. That is totally on Baldwin. He may not have been aware what his friend was doing, but if he let him see the info, he is responsible for that breech.
There is no way he should be allowed to remain on this case. How that affects Izzo, I don’t know.
Judge Gull needs to get tough and take control of this case. She has really been slacking time wise on things and has allowed herself to be taken advantage of.
For the love of the victims and justice for all, take control of this case!
 
I saw that same information.
A former co-worker and still close friend is privy to this highly sensitive material. That is totally on Baldwin. He may not have been aware what his friend was doing, but if he let him see the info, he is responsible for that breech.
There is no way he should be allowed to remain on this case. How that affects Izzo, I don’t know.
Judge Gull needs to get tough and take control of this case. She has really been slacking time wise on things and has allowed herself to be taken advantage of.
For the love of the victims and justice for all, take control of this case!

I totally agree, it’s time for the Judge to take control. And how does Baldwin not notice his chum snapping pics of seven crime scene photos? It’s equally probable he just handed them over :(
 
Okay so “R” tried to distance/protect his source who was leaker “M”, by attempting to mislead people instead to believe the source was a guy by the name of Woodhouse who has a lawsuit against Delphi LE and who the defence communicated with early on. This resulted in the first leak that Baldwin admitted to but it wasn’t really serious according to Cain.

So who died? It was “R”, not making judgement, people get caught up in a situation that went out of control but it was a tragedy even though it’s not known it was the cause. His interest in Delphi was only a small part of many other good things he did in life. Don’t engage in rumours to make conspiracy theories fit, he wasn’t murdered. “This man and his memory deserve better“. Both Greenlee and Cain are very passionate about protecting this man’s reputation especially for the sake of his family. IIRC he has children too.
 
10/17/2023Order Issued
The Court has received multiple requests for various legitimate media outlets to record the Court proceedings to be conducted on October 19, 2023, at 2:00 p.m. (These requests are filed in the case with this Order). Pursuant to the Code of Judicial Conduct, Rule 2.17, a judge shall prohibit broadcasting, televising, recording, or taking photographs in the Courtroom. However, a judge may authorize the broadcasting, televising, recording, digital streaming, or photographing of court proceedings or the Courtroom by members of the news media under certain conditions. (Rule 2.17(3)(a)(b)). News media is defined as persons employed by or representing a newspaper, periodical, press association, radio station, television station, or wire service and covered by I.C. 34-46-4-1. All of the submitted requests meet this definition. Counsel for the State and the defense have been provided with these requests, and both have previously submitted pleadings stating their positions on cameras in the Courtroom. (See defense Motion for Broadcasting Order, filed September 13, 2023, and State's Response to Defendant's Motion for Broadcasting Order, filed September 25, 2023). The Court has determined that allowing recording of the October 19, 2023, hearing is permitted provided that the means of recording will not distract the participants or impair the dignity of the proceedings, and the hearing itself is a non-confidential proceeding. The Court, therefore, authorizes the recording and broadcasting of the hearing set for October 19, 2023. The Court WILL NOT permit photographing or digital streaming of the proceedings. All news media will be required to wear/display identification and to wear appropriate attire. One or two cameras will be authorized for pool coverage of the hearing. Members of the general public are prohibited from broadcasting, recording, or photographing this proceeding. The Court will prohibit media broadcast during this hearing of attorney-client communications, bench conferences, and materials on counsel tables and the Court's bench. The Court has the sole discretion to interrupt or stop the coverage, or to limit or terminate the recording and broadcast by a news media organization at any time during the proceeding. The Court requests the media to become familiar with I.C. 34-46-4-1 and the Code of Judicial Conduct, Rule 2.17.
Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ

Order Signed:
10/17/2023
 
10/17/2023Order Issued
This case has generated substantial public interest and media attention. In light of this, and on the Court's own motion to ensure the integrity of the proceedings, to protect the Defendant's constitutional rights for due process, to ensure the safety of the parties and the public, and to permit public access to criminal proceedings, the Court sets forth the following rules and guidelines for the hearing set for Thursday, October 19, 2023, in the Allen Superior Court. The Courthouse will open at 8:00 a.m. All entrances are closed, except for the entrance on the east side of the building. The remaining entrances are locked with no access to the public. All members of the public, including members of the media, are subject to screening by metal detectors. All bags in possession of those entering the building are subject to search. NO weapons of any kind are permitted in the building, except for on-duty law enforcement officers providing security to the Courthouse and the parties. Cellular telephones are NOT permitted in the building. Violations are subject to seizure and destruction of the cellular telephone. No electronic equipment or devices are permitted in the Allen County Courthouse. This includes electronic watches. Media personnel are permitted to attend the Court session. One or two cameras providing pool coverage will be permitted in the Court session. No still photography or other recording will be permitted. No other media equipment will be permitted in the Courthouse. The Court requests the media be mindful that other County offices are conducting business in the building unrelated to this case. Media and members of the public are ordered to conduct themselves in such a fashion as to limit disruption to the offices, personnel, and patrons of those offices. The Media are free to use the public areas outside the Courthouse as long as they do not obstruct traffic in the streets and sidewalks surrounding the Courthouse. Public seating in the Allen Superior Courtroom One is limited to 90 spectators. The Sheriff of Allen County or his designee will ensure that the victim representatives are seated and that the defendant's family is seated. The first two rows of public seating in the south side of the Coutroom will be reserved for the State, the State's staff, victims representatives, and State designees. The first two rows of public seating in the north side of the Courtroom will be reserved for the defense staff, defense family, and defense designees. The remaining seating is available until full. No one, other than Court Security and law enforcement, will be permitted to stand in the Courtroom. No food or beverages are permitted inside Allen Superior Court. Water will be permitted for the parties in the well of the Courtroom. All members of the public and the media are required to follow directives of the Sheriff of Carroll County, the Sheriff of Allen County, Courthouse Security, and Courtroom Security. NO court-produced recording will be made available to the public or media. The audio record made pursuant to Indiana Criminal Rule 5 may not be copied or used for purposes other than perpetuating the record. At the conclusion of the scheduled hearing, all members of the public and media will remain seated in the courtroom until Court Security releases them. The Court anticipates that all members of the public and the media will conduct themselves in an appropriate fashion. Any violation of this Order and any conduct the Court finds disruptive of the proceedings may result in an order of temporary or permanent exclusion from the Courtroom and/or Courthouse and is punishable as contempt of Court.
Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ

Order Signed:
10/17/2023
 
From what we know, it did come from the D side. I just don't think it was an under-handed evil act on their part. Of course, I could be wrong; it sure wouldn't be the first time.

I've seen a lot of giant leaps being taken over the course of 6 years or so. I preface my posts with MOO. If you find them so outlandish (and maybe they are) please just ignore me.
Also, I’m not trying to be knit-picky, but until LE does an investigation and publicizes their findings re: digital forensics, timeline of distribution of photos, etc, we don’t know who leaked the alleged CS photos. Or if the alleged CS photos are real. Anyone can say anything on the internet, data can be breached by a third party via hacking. Fake social media accounts are made all of the time, so the account itself would need to be investigated. The weirdest thing to me is how quickly it was publicly announced as fact where the alleged photos came from. JMO.

Did LE make an official statement the photos were legitimate and came from the D?

IMO podcasters going to the media is really detrimental to the clarity of information re: the case. I would prefer to hear straight from LE, D, or P.
 
Knowingly receiving court prohibited photos would also be a crime. And passing them on.

So I know of 2 Youtube channel investigators (Murder Sheet as well as Gray Hughes) both have seem the pictures.. so I wonder if the anonomous source sent to both of them or if one sent to the other.

they are competitors so I am thinking the source of the leaked photos sent to both simultaneously.

Cain claimed “Mark” felt truly terrible about receiving the photos and only forwarded them on to MS so they could contact police. But then she goes on to say at least on other person besides “Mark“ received them as well, a female, so GH’s source could indeed be different.
 
Also, I’m not trying to be knit-picky, but until LE does an investigation and publicizes their findings re: digital forensics, timeline of distribution of photos, etc, we don’t know who leaked the alleged CS photos. Or if the alleged CS photos are real. Anyone can say anything on the internet, data can be breached by a third party via hacking. Fake social media accounts are made all of the time, so the account itself would need to be investigated. The weirdest thing to me is how quickly it was publicly announced as fact where the alleged photos came from. JMO.

Did LE make an official statement the photos were legitimate and came from the D?

IMO podcasters going to the media is really detrimental to the clarity of information re: the case. I would prefer to hear straight from LE, D, or P.
You're right and not being knit-picky. I should have put "if it's true."
No, we don't have an official statement that I know of. I was basing my statements on what MS said.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
89
Guests online
1,036
Total visitors
1,125

Forum statistics

Threads
626,049
Messages
18,516,283
Members
240,904
Latest member
nexy9522
Back
Top