IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Bergmann]

unless RA is actually guilty.

That's why I said 'might not be mutually exclusive..'

On the other side of the ball, although the Justice system categorically says that P should not only seek conviction only but to serve the interest of truth, its pretty much a given (with rare exception) that P seek convictions as their sole objective.

And that folks is why I don't accept anything either side say on face value.

 

[schooling]

That's why I said 'might not be mutually exclusive..'

On the other side of the ball, although the Justice system categorically says that P should not only seek conviction only but to serve the interest of truth, its pretty much a given (with rare exception) that P seek convictions as their sole objective.

And that folks is why I don't accept anything either side say on face value.

Ahhhh the good ol "Both Sides Are The Same!!!" argument.

You can say that about every single case that's ever made it's way through the justice system. And unless someone invents a truth machine that has 100% accuracy this will always be the case.

But considering that (what I quoted) as evidence of RAs innocence reads weirdly to me...

If I compiled a list of 1000 aggregious cases involving prosecutorial misconduct and/or prosecutions without the purist intentions.....RA wouldn't be in it. I'd probably have to compile the top 100,000 just to maybe see his name.

 

[CGBSpender]

Another thing that still feels off to me is the BG/DTH video from Libby’s phone.

On page 110 of the search warrant affidavit, it is stated the same video contains both the man on the bridge and the audio saying “Down the Hill”-a 43 second video. Personally, I was unaware these 2 recordings were within the same video. If this is the case, the audio of “Down the Hill” would either have a closer shot of the perp’s face and/or clothing OR it would show nothing if she put it in her pocket trying to hide the phone. If the defense memo is accurate and she was unclothed, what is the probability the phone would not only not be found, but left under her body? In either case, why not show the entire 43 second video? If the video showed more identifying features of the perp, that would be more information to take to identify them; if the video was in her pocket and didn’t show anything, why not show it all and confirm the same man on the bridge approaches them, then says “Down the Hill”? It doesn’t make sense to not show the entire 43 second video from the beginning to try to identify the perp. JMO

I question whether we've actually seen any part of the "video" at all. The BG walking clip that was released to the public to me has always looked like an iPhone "Live" photo series...not a video. My suspicion has been that LE doesn't want to release the video because there is something on it that they don't want BG to know that they know about...because it might result in BG possibly destroying some key piece of evidence, that he might otherwise be inclined to keep (i.e. my further hypothesis is that LG managed to get the gun used on video).

JMO

 

[CGBSpender]

How was KK ever officially cleared?

He took a polygraph in 2017, and gave a DNA sample I believe. If the interrogation transcript is factual, then he was at a residence on Paw Paw Pike (or at least it sounds like his phone was connected to the wifi at a residence near there).

(BTW - The transcripts requested for his appeal were completed and filed with the clerk's office last week.)

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

dbm

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I feel you. We probably have different assessments of the case but I think everyone wants a satisfactory conclusion to this.

This case really worries me and that's probably why it has caught my attention from the off.

Somebody kidnaps two young girls in broad daylight, they are found 22 hours later nearby to where they were last seen. They have been horrifically murdered, they were moved and then staged, clothes removed etc. The kidnapper is captured on cell phone video, images and his voice.

70,000 tips came in. DC in press conference amps up the 'someone must know the killer, he must have told someone, the killer is amongst us' etc in a town of 3000 people where the likely pool of adult males in the age range is a matter of hundreds . LE tell us DNA has been recovered from the scene. There can only be a handful or two of people out on the trails on that day.

You would have put money on the killer(s) being found pretty quickly based on all that, right?

But no, its taken 5 years for a clerk to find a report filed at the time for a suspect to be charged with what I consider IMO to be pretty thin evidence (accepting we don't know what or if LE have more) for a case like this when you consider how this crime happened.

IMO something is very off with all this. I'm not buying it. I don't trust or accept what any of them are saying - how could you?

Everything gets sealed away, P don't want cameras in court = not good IMO; and you have D throwing all kinds of accusations around from the possibly founded to the ridiculous, doing things that D just don't do (finger point at P), and now the leaks of material under protective order on top of all this.

Now the J has to start to try to get in the middle of all this crap and sort all this out and return what I agree has become a circus to some kind of sensible order.

All the legal folks I know keep saying 'just WTF is going on in Delphi?'

There is not one thing you have listed here that indicates a giant conspiracy of any kind in this case by LE and the prosecution. You can say the investigation was incompetent but not one thing, not one thing you list indicates deception or “something is just not right”.
Cases sometimes are difficult. Cases are sometimes not solved quickly. You have no idea why the prosecution prefers there not be cameras. Could be they don’t want the defense to take advantage of that and turn it into a circus like they have done since RA’s arrest.
It’s time to look at the ridiculous things the defense has been doing, and stop giving them a pass on everything.
I hope the judge dismisses them, sanctions them, fines them, and recommends they be disbarred. Their behavior has been an embarrassment to the legal profession. RA deserves representation and he deserves a lot better than these clowns.
If you want to see the “something’s just not right” about this case…look to the defense, not the prosecution.

 

[FrostedGlass]

In the last MS episode, they said this near the 24 mm regarding the protective order on discovery:
The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. And those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.

So I'm wondering how this leak and the apparent last one got by all of them.
Did the court approve them or not?
The news reports the first-in-line leaker as a former Baldwin associate.

In the news article, what leak are they talking about last spring?

Indiana State Police reportedly investigating evidence leak in Delphi murder case

DELPHI, Ind. — An investigation by “The Murder Sheet” podcast, certain elements of which have been confirmed by FOX59, indicates an alleged leak of sensitive crime scene evidence by Ric…

fox59.com

The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. This episode of The Murder Sheet will cover the recent catastrophic leak of crime scene photographs and other discovery material. Send tips to [email protected]. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

 

[Bergmann]

If I compiled a list of 1000 aggregious cases involving prosecutorial misconduct and/or prosecutions without the purist intentions.....RA wouldn't be in it. I'd probably have to compile the top 100,000 just to maybe see his name.

Well a 1000 or a 100,000 wrongs don't make another one right.

 

[Bergmann]

There is not one thing you have listed here that indicates a giant conspiracy of any kind in this case by LE and the prosecution. You can say the investigation was incompetent but not one thing, not one thing you list indicates deception or “something is just not right”.

I'm not asking you or anyone else to agree with me, I'm just saying the case hasn't sat well with me right from the start, long before the arrest of RA. It doesn't add up to me - YMMV.

And for clarity I'm not calling conspiracy. Deception maybe but you can point that at both sides here.

It’s time to look at the ridiculous things the defense has been doing, and stop giving them a pass on everything.

Who's giving them a pass? Personally I think they've done some things right (holding the P to account which I'd expect them to), and others very badly wrong (too much to list again but a few pages back I did suggest quite a few ridiculous things in their memo, and that's before we get to the leak).

Not everyone who is scrutinising the P is necessarily pro D. I'm scrutinising both. I really don't understand why some people appear to have taken a side and see the other as absolutely wrong or bad actors in this.

I hope the judge dismisses them, sanctions them, fines them, and recommends they be disbarred. Their behavior has been an embarrassment to the legal profession. RA deserves representation and he deserves a lot better than these clowns.

You might get your wish. I think there should be appropriate sanction, and expect J Gull to administer this, lets see how far she goes.

I'd like to see calmer, considered and more professional D replace them, as I think that's what this case needs. Current D seem to not to be able to restrain themselves when offended or outraged by the P, which makes them too easy an opponent to outmanouvre in court.

If you want to see the “something’s just not right” about this case…look to the defense, not the prosecution.

It wasn't right way before RA's arrest and this D got involved. Its just got even worse since!

 

[zh0r4]

Does anyone know if any shadow analysis of the BG video was done by the FBI/ISP? It is possible they have but it hasn’t been released. It would be useful for the timeline.

 

[girlhasnoname]

In the last MS episode, they said this near the 24 mm regarding the protective order on discovery:
The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. And those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.

So I'm wondering how this leak and the apparent last one got by all of them.
Did the court approve them or not?
The news reports the first-in-line leaker as a former Baldwin associate.

In the news article, what leak are they talking about last spring?

Indiana State Police reportedly investigating evidence leak in Delphi murder case

DELPHI, Ind. — An investigation by “The Murder Sheet” podcast, certain elements of which have been confirmed by FOX59, indicates an alleged leak of sensitive crime scene evidence by Ric…

fox59.com

The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. This episode of The Murder Sheet will cover the recent catastrophic leak of crime scene photographs and other discovery material. Send tips to [email protected]. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

I have a strong feeling the Court knew NOTHING related to the Memorandum or its content. It was also posted at 2:08 am and I think they did that on purpose. A little tip to a media source that it was online and voila' it was the main topic of the morning news that day.

This has gotten by the Court because the Defense has played dirty behind the scenes and exploited the practice of law and more importantly, Abby & Libby with their gross CS details and pages of redressing Libby. Shock value Jerry Springer style, not a Franks Motion content by far.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

I question whether we've actually seen any part of the "video" at all. The BG walking clip that was released to the public to me has always looked like an iPhone "Live" photo series...not a video. My suspicion has been that LE doesn't want to release the video because there is something on it that they don't want BG to know that they know about...because it might result in BG possibly destroying some key piece of evidence, that he might otherwise be inclined to keep (i.e. my further hypothesis is that LG managed to get the gun used on video).

JMO

It seems clear that Abby is in the frame as he bears down and that she was edited out by cropping.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If the Defense brings in RA's mental status in defense of his confessions to his wife and mother on the phone or in their motion to have him moved again out of Westerville, they will have opened the door for the Prosecution to have access to his mental health evaluations during his time at Westerville correct?

 

[FromGermany1]

It seems clear that Abby is in the frame as he bears down and that she was edited out by cropping.

We saw a part of her sleeve, then we saw nothing. Oh yes, I remember!

 

[FromGermany1]

It wasn't right way before RA's arrest and this D got involved. Its just got even worse since!

100%!

 

[steeltowngirl]

Not everyone who is scrutinising the P is necessarily pro D. I'm scrutinising both. I really don't understand why some people appear to have taken a side and see the other as absolutely wrong or bad actors in this.

I have scrutinized and have been plenty angry about the investigation through the years.

Among my grievances:
-Calling off the search
-No danger to the public
-Asking for tips “no matter how small” from the public, then admonishing the public for sending too many tips
-Not releasing more of the audio and video
-The sketch debacle
-Losing the 2017 RA interview

However, the defense has taken the spectacle to a whole new level.

-They have created a sensational SODDI narrative naming alternative suspects in a shady release of a memorandum that should have waited for the trial.
-They likely have violated the gag order.
-They have jeopardized a fair and speedy trial for their client.

ISP has admitted that they made mistakes. RA’s defense team is defending their client, as they should be. But their approach is by essentially accusing the investigators and prosecution team of willful wrongdoing. That doesn’t sit well with me.

So, while I keep my eyes open for more facts to unfold about the evidence against RA, I have picked a side in how the trial proceedings are being handled: LE and prosecution.

jmo

 

[Bergmann]

I have scrutinized and have been plenty angry about the investigation through the years.

Among my grievances:
-Calling off the search
-No danger to the public
-Asking for tips “no matter how small” from the public, then admonishing the public for sending too many tips
-Not releasing more of the audio and video
-The sketch debacle
-Losing the 2017 RA interview

However, the defense has taken the spectacle to a whole new level.

-They have created a sensational SODDI narrative naming alternative suspects in a shady release of a memorandum that should have waited for the trial.
-They likely have violated the gag order.
-They have jeopardized a fair and speedy trial for their client.

ISP has admitted that they made mistakes. RA’s defense team is defending their client, as they should be. But their approach is by essentially accusing the investigators and prosecution team of willful wrongdoing. That doesn’t sit well with me.

So, while I keep my eyes open for more facts to unfold about the evidence against RA, I have picked a side in how the trial proceedings are being handled: LE and prosecution.

jmo

I respect your right to form your own opinion.

I'm less convinced personally that the reckless behaviour of D team makes the P case any stronger or more believable. That doesn't follow IMO - YMMV.

Also if we put their methods to one side for a moment - what if they are right about LE & P acting in bad faith? Its worth considering, even if a side has already been chosen.

But yeah I agree the D have not done their client any good by acting in this way, taking unnecessary and unprofessional risks (although IMO he was never going to get a speedy trial given 6 years of discovery, and D needing to investigate further etc).

Truth is the only side I'll consistently follow, and I don't see a whole lot of that coming from either P or D right now.

Big couple of weeks for J Gull!

 

[Justice101]

There is not one thing you have listed here that indicates a giant conspiracy of any kind in this case by LE and the prosecution. You can say the investigation was incompetent but not one thing, not one thing you list indicates deception or “something is just not right”.
Cases sometimes are difficult. Cases are sometimes not solved quickly. You have no idea why the prosecution prefers there not be cameras. Could be they don’t want the defense to take advantage of that and turn it into a circus like they have done since RA’s arrest.
It’s time to look at the ridiculous things the defense has been doing, and stop giving them a pass on everything.
I hope the judge dismisses them, sanctions them, fines them, and recommends they be disbarred. Their behavior has been an embarrassment to the legal profession. RA deserves representation and he deserves a lot better than these clowns.
If you want to see the “something’s just not right” about this case…look to the defense, not the prosecution.

Thank you for keeping this all in proper perspective. Once a crazy idea is floated there are people who start to "fall for it" and start going down the rabbit hole. This is not a novel. Yeh, other things "could" have possibly happened that way, but they probably didn't.

In my opinion, this will probably end up being a simple case of the guy who was seen by others (and videoed by a victim!) on an isolate trail... who also admitted to putting himself there, and who will be convicted of (at least) partaking in a horrific crime. A jury would probably not find reasonable doubt even with the little bit of evidence we the public are aware of.

He reportedly admitted to it multiple times and the defense is pulling out all stops to find any way to confuse a future jury.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Does anyone know if any shadow analysis of the BG video was done by the FBI/ISP? It is possible they have but it hasn’t been released. It would be useful for the timeline.

I haven't seen any mention of it but that doesn't mean it wasn't done.

Barbara McDonald apparently went live after the arrest of RA was announced. In it she showed some scenes of the search of his home. I'd like to see shadow analysis done on those, too. We talked about it here and there were opposing opinions as the credibility of the neighbors.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have a strong feeling the Court knew NOTHING related to the Memorandum or its content. It was also posted at 2:08 am and I think they did that on purpose. A little tip to a media source that it was online and voila' it was the main topic of the morning news that day.

This has gotten by the Court because the Defense has played dirty behind the scenes and exploited the practice of law and more importantly, Abby & Libby with their gross CS details and pages of redressing Libby. Shock value Jerry Springer style, not a Franks Motion content by far.

JMO

We've been told the leak came from an ex-employee.

If the prosecution and the judge signed the papers approving the D's trustworthy associates, what could D have done to prevent the leak from happening?