IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[imstilla.grandma]

Greenlee, a lawyer, further explained that when crime-scene images are shown during trials, they are typically displayed on a screen to the jury and that “precautions are made and no one gets an opportunity to copy and distribute the pictures outside of court for reasons unrelated to the court.”

Delphi murders: Police investigating alleged leak of gruesome crime-scene photos

Indiana police are looking into a series of photos from the crime scene of the 2017 Delphi murders that were allegedly leaked to the public. The gruesome images — some of which were sent via text and at least one of which has appeared on social media — were taken in the wooded area off the Monon Hig

www.wgmd.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Greenlee, a lawyer, further explained that when crime-scene images are shown during trials, they are typically displayed on a screen to the jury and that “precautions are made and no one gets an opportunity to copy and distribute the pictures outside of court for reasons unrelated to the court.”

Delphi murders: Police investigating alleged leak of gruesome crime-scene photos

Indiana police are looking into a series of photos from the crime scene of the 2017 Delphi murders that were allegedly leaked to the public. The gruesome images — some of which were sent via text and at least one of which has appeared on social media — were taken in the wooded area off the Monon Hig

www.wgmd.com

IMO, they don't need to show them at all. Diagrams work well in most cases.

 

[MistyWaters]

We've been told the leak came from an ex-employee.

If the prosecution and the judge signed the papers approving the D's trustworthy associates, what could D have done to prevent the leak from happening?

By not allowing any access to crime scene photos outside of the immediate team?
Or by supervising the viewing of the photos? It seems this person took the liberty of taking photos of the crime scene photos because no one was properly paying attention to them doing it.

While the defence can‘t control an employees (or ex-employees) actions, it is their responsibility to securely manage what information or documents employees are given access to.

 

[FrostedGlass]

By not allowing any access to crime scene photos outside of the immediate team?
Or by supervising the viewing of the photos, sounds like this person took the liberty of taking photos of them because no one was paying attention.

While the defence can‘t control an employees (or ex-employees) actions, it is their responsibility to securely manage what information or documents they are given access to.

We don't know when the employee was fired. Maybe he was in good standing when he leaked. Maybe he was a member of the immediate team.

We haven't seen the paperwork that was supposed to have been signed to know what the guidelines for a trusted employee are; apparently the judge thought it was OK for the leaker to see them or she would not have signed.

I sure hope this is all explained in the next hearing, open to the public.

 

[MistyWaters]

Greenlee, a lawyer, further explained that when crime-scene images are shown during trials, they are typically displayed on a screen to the jury and that “precautions are made and no one gets an opportunity to copy and distribute the pictures outside of court for reasons unrelated to the court.”

Delphi murders: Police investigating alleged leak of gruesome crime-scene photos

Indiana police are looking into a series of photos from the crime scene of the 2017 Delphi murders that were allegedly leaked to the public. The gruesome images — some of which were sent via text and at least one of which has appeared on social media — were taken in the wooded area off the Monon Hig

www.wgmd.com

From your link as well. Crime scene photos are the means by which the jury is able to view the crime that was committed. As the leak has been attributed to one member of the defence, they can’t really argue the photos being made public is unfair prejudice (harm) against their client at the same time as they defend his innocence. So that leads me to think Baldwin will step down even if the judge doesn’t order him to do so, that’s if the entire defence team isn’t dismissed.

“Crime-scene photos obviously serve an investigative purpose, and the evidence depicted in these pictures can be used to potentially demonstrate the guilt of a particular individual," Kevin Greenlee, co-host of "The Murder Sheet" podcast — which has been closely covering Allen's case — told Fox News Digital. "So, obviously, it is very important for a jury to see these photos and these images."….

….Since the Delphi murders, crime-scene photos have already been dispersed through social media and are now forever available for the public to view, which could harm suspect Richard Allen's case…..”

 

[Yellow Rose]

Does anyone know how the "ex-employee" died?

 

[Bergmann]

IMO, they don't need to show them at all. Diagrams work well in most cases.

If I was leading the P I would want to use some of the crime scene photos for specific strategic effect in the court room.

 

[MistyWaters]

We don't know when the employee was fired. Maybe he was in good standing when he leaked. Maybe he was a member of the immediate team.

We haven't seen the paperwork that was supposed to have been signed to know what the guidelines for a trusted employee are; apparently the judge thought it was OK for the leaker to see them or she would not have signed.

I sure hope this is all explained in the next hearing, open to the public.

How do we know the employee was fired or not in good standing? Why that person left doesn’t really have any bearing on the facts of the matter. It’s plain and simple irresponsible to give free access to highly confidential material in any law office, or any office for that matter. You’re blaming the Judge? It’s not the judge’s responsibility to learn how work inside a law office is being supervised.

Non-disclosure agreements are not dependent on whether or not someone is still working for the company. But I doubt the public will be given all the details of this matter because of confidentiality protection. We’ll only hear of the outcome. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

If I was leading the P I would want to use some of the crime scene photos for specific strategic effect in the court room.

Yes and if I was a juror as much as I wouldn’t look forward to viewing crime scene photos, if diagrams were distributed instead I’d sure wonder what was being covered-up if I wasn’t allowed to see photographic evidence of the crime that took place, considering jurors are tasked with determining a defendants guilt or innocence of that same crime.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If I was leading the P I would want to use some of the crime scene photos for specific strategic effect in the court room.

That's for sure. Diagrams don't have the emotional impact that the actual photos have. The system is supposed to be all about evidence and not emotions but both sides play that game. IMO the P usually just has a better hand with the photos.

 

[Bergmann]

Yes and if I was a juror as much as I wouldn’t look forward to viewing crime scene photos, if diagrams were distributed instead I’d sure wonder what was being covered-up if I wasn’t allowed to see photographic evidence of the crime that took place, considering jurors are tasked with determining a defendants guilt or innocence of that same crime.

If I were a juror I think I'd also want to do a walk of the area focusing on the point of abduction and then journey along the P narrative of how they arrived at the crime scene etc.

 

[Bergmann]

Kevin Greenlee, co-host of "The Murder Sheet" podcast

I've stopped listening to anything he or MS say, I no longer find them helpful or credible.

They've inserted themselves into the story and are too fond of handing down judgement of others from their position atop a very high horse and this latest leak and rush to monetise as well as sermonise I find distateful and hypocritical.

More importantly the manner, speed, content and potential source of some of their scoops is a cause for concern IMO in terms of impartiality.

Either way, they're not conducting themselves like professional journalists which is what they purport to be.

 

[MistyWaters]

Despite the fact that MS has been riding on the back of social media (or somewhat instigating it, might be argued), what Cain says below are words well spoken IMO.

BBM

Judge to weigh Delphi case options after leak discovery

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Revelations over the weekend that the leak of defense team crime scene evidence to Delphi social media posters will force Allen Superior Judge Fran Gull to take a hard …

fox59.com

”I think that the fact that this leak comes from the defense attorneys’ side, it makes it a little bit more complicated because they’re the ones fighting the system and this happened. I think in general, this case has become a circus and it’s driven by social media to a large degree,” said Cain, who reluctantly admits that a podcast, even one hosted by a reporter and a lawyer, exists in the social media realm. ”I think we’re seeing the dark side of the curiosity here because what you’re having is people that are putting their own need for information and their own essentially personal gratification above the health and well-being of the case and this brief certainly speaks to that underlying trend. I think that social media has inflamed this case at every turn and I think that it’s a double-edged sword. You have the sheer amount of crankery that has occurred.”

 

[Bergmann]

Hmmm. I think if Cain wants to be considered a reporter then she should do a better job of just reporting.

What she says about 'people that are putting their own need for information and their own essentially personal gratification above the health and well-being of the case and this brief' again is sermonising and effectively do as I say and not as I do - the pair of them rush to scoop and monetise, and then have the cheek to admonish others

It's a shame because early on they were a source of sensible commentary, but now they've descended into handing out opinion (which they said they don't do) and being condescending with it.

Mini rant over lol!

 

[twall]

In the last MS episode, they said this near the 24 mm regarding the protective order on discovery:
The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. And those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.

So I'm wondering how this leak and the apparent last one got by all of them.
Did the court approve them or not?
The news reports the first-in-line leaker as a former Baldwin associate.

In the news article, what leak are they talking about last spring?

Indiana State Police reportedly investigating evidence leak in Delphi murder case

DELPHI, Ind. — An investigation by “The Murder Sheet” podcast, certain elements of which have been confirmed by FOX59, indicates an alleged leak of sensitive crime scene evidence by Ric…

fox59.com

The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. This episode of The Murder Sheet will cover the recent catastrophic leak of crime scene photographs and other discovery material. Send tips to [email protected]. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

BBM
BW. It is at the beginning of the most recent podcast.

The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs: Questions

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. This episode of The Murder Sheet will cover the recent catastrophic leak of crime scene photographs and other discovery material. We'll answer a few common questions we received from listeners. Send tips to [email protected]...

art19.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

How do we know the employee was fired or not in good standing? Why that person left doesn’t really have any bearing on the facts of the matter. It’s plain and simple irresponsible to give free access to highly confidential material in any law office, or any office for that matter. You’re blaming the Judge? It’s not the judge’s responsibility to learn how work inside a law office is being supervised.

Non-disclosure agreements are not dependent on whether or not someone is still working for the company. But I doubt the public will be given all the details of this matter because of confidentiality protection. We’ll only hear of the outcome. JMO

This is from MS. See that part in red? I'm assuming that the judge had to set forth some criteria of who are trusted associates. I'm assuming they all agreed on the criteria.

The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. And those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.

 

[MistyWaters]

Does anyone know how the "ex-employee" died?

As best as I can understand it from listening to the MS episode more than once (anyone feel free to correct me if I’ve got it wrong, the sequence is confusing) but it wasn’t the ex-employee “M” who took his own life. It went like this -
“M”, an employee, steals crime scene photos from law office and shares them with “R”;
”R” distributes those same photos with others (Oct 5th) and later dies by suicide, unknown if that was related;
”Mark” was one of the individuals who received the leaked crime scene photos, and he sends them on to MS asking that the leak be reported to LE.

 

[girlhasnoname]

We've been told the leak came from an ex-employee.

If the prosecution and the judge signed the papers approving the D's trustworthy associates, what could D have done to prevent the leak from happening?

I'm genuinely confused, what papers would the Prosecution and the Judge have signed approving the D's trustworthy associates?

 

[MistyWaters]

This is from MS. See that part in red? I'm assuming that the judge had to set forth some criteria of who are trusted associates. I'm assuming they all agreed on the criteria.

The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. And those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.

So if this process in fact was followed, you’re suggesting the defence isn’t responsible for the leak? I’d say that’s a giant leap given we don’t have much information at all and that’s probably because it’s not up to rule on it. The matter is before the Judge on Thursday.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If I was leading the P I would want to use some of the crime scene photos for specific strategic effect in the court room.

Especially to show that it wasn't a ritual sacrifice.