IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[Ravenmoon]

Interesting (to me at least)

From a news article:

This is dated October 10th, 2023:

"Allen’s attorneys wrote that they had not filed an insanity defense, nor have they requested a competency evaluation of Allen, meaning his “mental state is not at issue in the guilt/innocence phase of this proceeding.”

Also, not sure if others knew or not On March 24th, 2023 a large amount of discovery was made available to the defense who sat down with RA to review. This is when RA started eating the paperwork. April 3rd, 2023 is when RA admits to killing girls.

I can't help but wonder if the paperwork that he ate included items taken from his house and car that links him to the crime scene.

This sequence of events really doesn't seem coincidental.

Delphi murder suspect’s attorneys ask judge to deny prosecution’s subpoena for medical, mental health records

EBM to add JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

You know he's probably out of a job now. E&C Officer, what are the odds? This case seems like something out of the Twilight Zone.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

That would be my opinion as well. I listened to his interview on TMS again and he didn’t admit to not being an attorney until 51 minutes into the interview. Prior to that I feel like he was allowing the interviewers to proceed with their incorrect assumption.
Then he offered for them to edit out his admission that he failed the bar exam.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Interesting (to me at least)

From a news article:

This is dated October 10th, 2023:

"Allen’s attorneys wrote that they had not filed an insanity defense, nor have they requested a competency evaluation of Allen, meaning his “mental state is not at issue in the guilt/innocence phase of this proceeding.”

Also, not sure if others knew or not On March 24th, 2023 a large amount of discovery was made available to the defense who sat down with RA to review. This is when RA started eating the paperwork. April 3rd, 2023 is when RA admits to killing girls.

I can't help but wonder if the paperwork that he ate included items taken from his house and car that links him to the crime scene.

This sequence of events really doesn't seem coincidental.

Delphi murder suspect’s attorneys ask judge to deny prosecution’s subpoena for medical, mental health records

EBM to add JMO

That’s the key I believe too.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

That’s the key I believe too.

Yes me too. I think there is evidence connecting him beyond a bullet and being there that day looking like BG.

 

[Ravenmoon]

The Huffington Post:

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents'

"Allen’s defense did not dispute that Allen had made incriminating statements, but attributed them to his deteriorating physical and mental health, noting in requests to move him from the state prison, where he is being housed as he awaits trial, to a jail near Delphi, Indiana, that he had displayed symptoms of schizophrenia. Prosecutors said that they had considered “involuntary medication” to treat Allen’s symptoms, but two psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary, and they also felt it wasn’t necessary to move him to another facility with a psychiatric unit. "

Guess RA is not on any involuntary medication

Hmmmm

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The Huffington Post:

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents'

"Allen’s defense did not dispute that Allen had made incriminating statements, but attributed them to his deteriorating physical and mental health, noting in requests to move him from the state prison, where he is being housed as he awaits trial, to a jail near Delphi, Indiana, that he had displayed symptoms of schizophrenia. Prosecutors said that they had considered “involuntary medication” to treat Allen’s symptoms, but two psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary, and they also felt it wasn’t necessary to move him to another facility with a psychiatric unit. "

Guess RA is not on any involuntary medication

Hmmmm

JMO

Seems they wanted it both ways. He's displaying possible schizophrenia and deteriorating mental judgement and no we can say it but you're not allowed to see professional conformation of it. Just take our word for it, he didn't mean what he said.

Now it seems RA is fine judgement-wise? He knows for certain who he wants as his lawyers. He's back to eating and is deemed to be in good health and mind. Does that mean he was telling his wife and mother the truth of it?

 

[Tealgrove]

He was an Ethics and Compliance Officer of a firm in the Indianapolis area. I am not sure what type of firm.

Ethics and Compliance? LOL

Ya can’t just make this stuff up!

Ethics and Compliance…that’s rich!

Wish I could stop laughing but I can’t. Ahhhh the irony. ROFLMAO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Seems they wanted it both ways. He's displaying possible schizophrenia and deteriorating mental judgement and no we can say it but you're not allowed to see professional conformation of it. Just take our word for it, he didn't mean what he said.

Now it seems RA is fine judgement-wise? He knows for certain who he wants as his lawyers. He's back to eating and is deemed to be in good health and mind. Does that mean he was telling his wife and mother the truth of it?

Seems like the exD wanted him to be crazy when it suits them.

It's funny that we have heard many times from the exD about his DNA not being at the CS, but nothing from them regarding a lack of evidence found in the search of his house and car.

Wouldn't they be screaming loudly about that if it was true? Wouldn't they want everyone to know that there is no connection there?

Also strange that they want that SW thrown out...if there was nothing to see there.

Hmmmmm


JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

Seems like the exD wanted him to be crazy when it suits them.

It's funny that we have heard many times from the exD about his DNA not being at the CS, but nothing from them regarding a lack of evidence found in the search of his house and car.

Wouldn't they be screaming loudly about that if it was true? Wouldn't they want everyone to know that there is no connection there?

Also strange that they want that SW thrown out...if there was nothing to see there.

Hmmmmm


JMO

The ex Defence have been very crafty in their wording.

No DNA at the crime scene? Tobe Lazenby said they had DNA before RA was even on their Radar so I’m not so sure about the D’s assertions.

Furthermore, it doesnt mean that Abby or Libby’s DNA wasn’t found in places it should not have been.

The ex Defence is wiley.

I’m just waiting on the trial. Let the truth be told.

MOO

 

[zh0r4]

The ex Defence have been very crafty in their wording.

No DNA at the crime scene? Tobe Lazenby said they had DNA before RA was even on their Radar so I’m not so sure about the D’s assertions.

Furthermore, it doesnt mean that Abby or Libby’s DNA wasn’t found in places it should not have been.

The ex Defence is wiley.

I’m just waiting on the trial. Let the truth be told.

MOO

Liggett and Holeman both testified in depositions Aug 9 & 10 there is no DNA tying RA to the crime scene. There is nothing electronically that ties RA to the CS. IMO this means there is literally no DNA tying him to the CS. No DNA from the girls found in his house either (as this would tie him to the CS, bc the bodies are part of the CS).

bbm

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Liggett depo. p.80, lines 1-3; defense memo p. 129)

“Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19; defense memo p.129)

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. No data extracted from Richard Allen's phone connects him to the murders.

No data extracted from Libby's phone connected Richard the murders. There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders. There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen's computers that connects him to the murders. There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.

This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders.”


Source:
Case# 08C01-2210-MR-000001

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

PDF
DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

 

[Ravenmoon]

Liggett and Holeman both testified in depositions Aug 9 & 10 there is no DNA tying RA to the crime scene. There is nothing electronically that ties RA to the CS. IMO this means there is literally no DNA tying him to the CS. No DNA from the girls found in his house either (as this would tie him to the CS, bc the bodies are part of the CS).

bbm

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Liggett depo. p.80, lines 1-3; defense memo p. 129)

“Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19; defense memo p.129)

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. No data extracted from Richard Allen's phone connects him to the murders.

No data extracted from Libby's phone connected Richard the murders. There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders. There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen's computers that connects him to the murders. There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.

This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders.”
View attachment 463569

Source:
Case# 08C01-2210-MR-000001

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

PDF
DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

I don't believe for a minute that nothing was found at RA'S house that connects him to the crime scene. The EX-D would be shouting from the highest mountain. Why would they want that SW thrown out? Makes no sense if their was NOTHING there.

As data extraction...I believe that that could be a twisted statement. Cloud extraction is different, at least different enough that by stating " no data extraction links RA to the CS, " that could be technically true but also misleading.

Also, the way that the statements are worded, his phone and computers aren't linked to the Crime Scene, it doesn't say there is nothing Linking RA to the girls.

Plus, he had 13 or more phones. They only mention 1 single phone.


EBM, posted before I was finished

 

[iamshadow21]

I don't believe for a minute that nothing was found at RA'S house that connects him to the crime scene. The EX-D would be shouting from the highest mountain. Why would they want that SW thrown out? Makes no sense if their was NOTHING there.

As data extraction...I believe that that could be a twisted statement. Cloud extraction is different, at least different enough that by stating " no data extraction links RA to the CS, " that could be technically true but also misleading.

Also, the way that the statements are worded, his phone and computers aren't linked to the Crime Scene, it doesn't say there is nothing Linking RA to the girls.

Plus, he had 13 or more phones. They only mention 1 single phone.


EBM, posted before I was finished

Yeah, there's some weasel words going on.

No data from Libby's phone connected Richard [to] the MURDERS. They can't say 'crime scene' for that one, because the bridge, as the site of the abduction, is part of the crime scene, and we know exactly what data Libby has of him from there. His figure, walking towards them, and his voice telling them 'Guys, down the hill' while racking the slide on his gun.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Liggett and Holeman both testified in depositions Aug 9 & 10 there is no DNA tying RA to the crime scene. There is nothing electronically that ties RA to the CS. IMO this means there is literally no DNA tying him to the CS. No DNA from the girls found in his house either (as this would tie him to the CS, bc the bodies are part of the CS).

bbm

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Liggett depo. p.80, lines 1-3; defense memo p. 129)

“Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19; defense memo p.129)

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. No data extracted from Richard Allen's phone connects him to the murders.

No data extracted from Libby's phone connected Richard the murders. There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders. There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen's computers that connects him to the murders. There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.

This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders.”
View attachment 463569

Source:
Case# 08C01-2210-MR-000001

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

PDF
DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

Respectfully, the statement have large loopholes in them. Remember people have been found guilty of murder for decades without DNA or computer evidence.
But I do suspect DNA from an occupant of RA’s residence was found at the crime scene. ( just not from RA).
I also think something was found in the SW that connects him directly to the victims.
Could be Polaroids or even 8 mm. A piece of clothing that belongs to the girls found in his shed or his car.
Google searches involving crimes of this nature or groups where these type of crimes are fetishized.
Books that describe this type of crime
CSAM material that is on computer or in different forms.
Printed photographs of teenagers from Delphi
Printed photographs of teenagers walking the trails.
Printed photographs of A&L.
Maybe some rope matching that at the scene.
Google searches in how to get rid of dna etc.
Maybe a trail cam or deer cam that showed that RA had been seen at the crime scene days or weeks leading up to the crime.
No verifiable alibi during the time of the crime
Change in behavior, change in routine, change in story pertaining to that day.

There is a time and a place for evidence to be presented. And it’s in court when it can be vetted, verified, certified and challenged. I don’t blame the prosecution for holding their cards close to their chest. Anything that is revealed is immediately discounted by those that don’t have the power to decide the fate of RA.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Incoming layperson opinion:

This case is arguably one of Indiana's most high profile. According to LE, the investigation exposed a huge labyrinth of CSAM. Two young girls were abducted and lost their lives, in brutal fashion.

LE, the Prosecution and the Defense have an enormous DUTY to guard the evidence until trial.

IMO there is no place for a concept like "snookered" in a case of this magnitude (or any case for that matter). DUTY. The Defense had a DUTY to protect those sensitive photos. Fort Knox level of DUTY.

That means lock and key. Authorized personal only. No one given unfettered access. No one given access without supervision. This is basic.

That singilar breach has upended this trial.

Justice is delayed and -- for now -- denied for those two girls and their families.

Another family is grieving the loss of their husband and father.

I don't defend the accused but I do defend the Constitution and the right to a fair trial. While IIRC RA did waive his right to a speedy trial at some point, no defendant should have to waive it indefinitely. The Judge has a duty too.

Between the sloppy Frank's memo and the distribution of crime scene photos, I shake my head. Charges, sanctions. This is ethics stuff -- and ought IMO to come before the Bar.

RA does have the right to be represented, but even when a defendant chooses to represent himself, the sitting judge still appoints counsel to supervise, more or less. A defendant has a right to a fair trial and a decent defense, even in the case where he wishes to represent himself, badly.

If defense lawyers themselves are under scrutiny for grievous errors out of their own conference rooms, IMO the conflict of interest is obvious.

Appoint new lawyers. If the defendant and his counsel want to bring on extra lawyers, paid or pro bono, let them bring them on as consultants, but again and IMO, for a proper conviction a competent defense is vital.

The original defense team's position that they would be ready for trial by January is utterly disingenuous IMO. They themselves were crying foul -- failure by the State to provide discovery, failure of LE to investigate other leads, etc, etc. Whoever represents RA, it's in his best interest to have sound representation and if takes a calendar year to accomplish that, then he should jump on it. Well, unless he wants to plead out....

So, that's my final answer -- as a layperson trying to follow this convoluted mess --

I support the judge's decision to appoint new cousel (reserving my own judgment whether she handled the removal properly). If RA and his new defense team want help from the Baldwin and Rozzi pony show, bring 'em on. As consultants. They already indicated they were willing to work for free so....

It sort of feels like two little girls are lost in this, left out in the cold abandoned crime scene, while the politics of theatre law overwhelm the headlines...

I must always remind myself that the legal system in the US is not designed around the rights of the victims -- it's about those charged with crimes. It's about their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's a high bar in this country to repeal those from an individual.

The sooner we have a ready State, the right judge, and an adequate counsel in place, the sooner RA can go before a jury of his peers as is his right.

And that is the proper path to conviction.

And the right way IMO to return a modicum of justice to the families of Abby and Libby.

JM uneducated but sincere O

This was a thoughtful and amazing post. It gave me a lot to think about. I also like your idea of leaving BR and AB as consultants but giving RA a new defense team to help secure a path to justice for Libby and Abby.

 

[TL4S]

Liggett and Holeman both testified in depositions Aug 9 & 10 there is no DNA tying RA to the crime scene. There is nothing electronically that ties RA to the CS. IMO this means there is literally no DNA tying him to the CS. No DNA from the girls found in his house either (as this would tie him to the CS, bc the bodies are part of the CS).

bbm

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Liggett depo. p.80, lines 1-3; defense memo p. 129)

“Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19; defense memo p.129)

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. No data extracted from Richard Allen's phone connects him to the murders.

No data extracted from Libby's phone connected Richard the murders. There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders. There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen's computers that connects him to the murders. There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.

This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders.”
View attachment 463569

Source:
Case# 08C01-2210-MR-000001

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

PDF
DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

There could be loopholes in here, for sure, as others have said. However, imo, there doesn't have to be, either. Maybe there wasn't any other evidence collected linking RA to the crime, either because he is innocent, or because it's been six years and the evidence is gone. Or maybe they collected a ton and the ex-D is playing around. IDK, and I'm okay admitting that I don't know, because I don't have the evidence.

But I would expect a lot of defense attorneys to try to get the SW thrown out. The SW, at the very least, led to the gun evidence. How good the ballistics is will be up to the experts, but why willingly even leave that option on the table?

And if the SW is thrown out, maybe the arrest affidavit is less viable, which makes anything in prison, like incriminating statements, perhaps inadmissible? Get the SW tossed and watch the dominoes fall. Maybe people don't like the way the ex-D went about it, but it nonetheless seems a reasonable avenue to pursue when they already have other evidence putting RA on the trails that day that needs to be argued. Jmo.

And as an aside, not directed at any one person, no, I do not idolize the ex-D, hate JG, or sympathize with some RA cause. I have personal thoughts, but I could be way off base, and I know it. I've seen nothing posted anywhere in the threads to convince me of anything, because there's much more that we don't know than that we do, and I'm not comfortable taking a stance that requires me to negate someone else's view. It's intimidating to post here lately unless one is very polarized, because questioning anything causes backlash either way. Obviously, everyone is frustrated. I'm personally relieved that the SCOIN is involved. Wanting a fair trial is wanting a fair trial, nothing more.

Jmo.

 

[FromGermany1]

Respectfully, the statement have large loopholes in them. Remember people have been found guilty of murder for decades without DNA or computer evidence.
But I do suspect DNA from an occupant of RA’s residence was found at the crime scene. ( just not from RA).
I also think something was found in the SW that connects him directly to the victims.
Could be Polaroids or even 8 mm. A piece of clothing that belongs to the girls found in his shed or his car.
Google searches involving crimes of this nature or groups where these type of crimes are fetishized.
Books that describe this type of crime
CSAM material that is on computer or in different forms.
Printed photographs of teenagers from Delphi
Printed photographs of teenagers walking the trails.
Printed photographs of A&L.
Maybe some rope matching that at the scene.
Google searches in how to get rid of dna etc.
Maybe a trail cam or deer cam that showed that RA had been seen at the crime scene days or weeks leading up to the crime.
No verifiable alibi during the time of the crime
Change in behavior, change in routine, change in story pertaining to that day.

There is a time and a place for evidence to be presented. And it’s in court when it can be vetted, verified, certified and challenged. I don’t blame the prosecution for holding their cards close to their chest. Anything that is revealed is immediately discounted by those that don’t have the power to decide the fate of RA.

What, if LE found the tripod for a camera, which had left prints at the crime scene?

 

[Betty P]

Liggett and Holeman both testified in depositions Aug 9 & 10 there is no DNA tying RA to the crime scene. There is nothing electronically that ties RA to the CS. IMO this means there is literally no DNA tying him to the CS. No DNA from the girls found in his house either (as this would tie him to the CS, bc the bodies are part of the CS).

bbm

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Liggett depo. p.80, lines 1-3; defense memo p. 129)

“Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.” (Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19; defense memo p.129)

“Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene. No data extracted from Richard Allen's phone connects him to the murders.

No data extracted from Libby's phone connected Richard the murders. There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders. There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen's computers that connects him to the murders. There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.

This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders.”
View attachment 463569

Source:
Case# 08C01-2210-MR-000001

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

PDF
DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

At this point, I don’t believe anything the ex defense team says, not even depositions.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There could be loopholes in here, for sure, as others have said. However, imo, there doesn't have to be, either. Maybe there wasn't any other evidence collected linking RA to the crime, either because he is innocent, or because it's been six years and the evidence is gone. Or maybe they collected a ton and the ex-D is playing around. IDK, and I'm okay admitting that I don't know, because I don't have the evidence.

But I would expect a lot of defense attorneys to try to get the SW thrown out. The SW, at the very least, led to the gun evidence. How good the ballistics is will be up to the experts, but why willingly even leave that option on the table?

And if the SW is thrown out, maybe the arrest affidavit is less viable, which makes anything in prison, like incriminating statements, perhaps inadmissible? Get the SW tossed and watch the dominoes fall. Maybe people don't like the way the ex-D went about it, but it nonetheless seems a reasonable avenue to pursue when they already have other evidence putting RA on the trails that day that needs to be argued. Jmo.

And as an aside, not directed at any one person, no, I do not idolize the ex-D, hate JG, or sympathize with some RA cause. I have personal thoughts, but I could be way off base, and I know it. I've seen nothing posted anywhere in the threads to convince me of anything, because there's much more that we don't know than that we do, and I'm not comfortable taking a stance that requires me to negate someone else's view. It's intimidating to post here lately unless one is very polarized, because questioning anything causes backlash either way. Obviously, everyone is frustrated. I'm personally relieved that the SCOIN is involved. Wanting a fair trial is wanting a fair trial, nothing more.

Jmo.

Thoughtful post, as always. Thank you.

Regarding the SW and its return. Out of all those items they took from his house and vehicle, it appears that the cartridge, gun and carpet scrap from the car where the only things they sent to the lab. We got results on the gun/cartridge, nothing on the carpet scrap. Since they did publish the finding on the gun/cartridge, I assume they would have published that result, too.

I researched testing on clothing and didn't come up with much of anything. I couldn't find out if they could test without the item being sent to the lab or even how long blood stains remain testable. Do you have any idea of how they could test clothing without sending the sample into the lab?

I'm left with thinking the SW return supports the affidavits stating they found no evidence tying RA to the crime scene.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There could be loopholes in here, for sure, as others have said. However, imo, there doesn't have to be, either. Maybe there wasn't any other evidence collected linking RA to the crime, either because he is innocent, or because it's been six years and the evidence is gone. Or maybe they collected a ton and the ex-D is playing around. IDK, and I'm okay admitting that I don't know, because I don't have the evidence.

But I would expect a lot of defense attorneys to try to get the SW thrown out. The SW, at the very least, led to the gun evidence. How good the ballistics is will be up to the experts, but why willingly even leave that option on the table?

And if the SW is thrown out, maybe the arrest affidavit is less viable, which makes anything in prison, like incriminating statements, perhaps inadmissible? Get the SW tossed and watch the dominoes fall. Maybe people don't like the way the ex-D went about it, but it nonetheless seems a reasonable avenue to pursue when they already have other evidence putting RA on the trails that day that needs to be argued. Jmo.

And as an aside, not directed at any one person, no, I do not idolize the ex-D, hate JG, or sympathize with some RA cause. I have personal thoughts, but I could be way off base, and I know it. I've seen nothing posted anywhere in the threads to convince me of anything, because there's much more that we don't know than that we do, and I'm not comfortable taking a stance that requires me to negate someone else's view. It's intimidating to post here lately unless one is very polarized, because questioning anything causes backlash either way. Obviously, everyone is frustrated. I'm personally relieved that the SCOIN is involved. Wanting a fair trial is wanting a fair trial, nothing more.

Jmo.

Don't be intimidated to post here TL. You've been around these parts for a long time. It's an emotional case, we've become very invested over the years. I don't negate anyone else's opinion, questioning shows an open mind. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm just personally convinced of RA's guilt based on what I know so far and try to respectfully debate my opinion with others who are personally convinced of his innocence. There will be mountains of more evidence from both the State and Defense at trial, who knows what that might reveal?

I too am glad the SCOIN is involved, I believe they will address any violations and get this case back on track. Right now it seems to be spinning and going nowhere.

Abby & Libby deserve justice, it shouldn't be about who is right or wrong. It should be about convicting the right person for their brutal murders.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This was a thoughtful and amazing post. It gave me a lot to think about. I also like your idea of leaving BR and AB as consultants but giving RA a new defense team to help secure a path to justice for Libby and Abby.

I agree that was a great post, but I personally think BR and AB have caused too much chaos and unprofessional conduct to be allowed to be anywhere near this case going forward.

JMO