IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[Ravenmoon]

Ok, I'll play.

I can say I have never gone out, bought a patch and sewed it on my clothing unless it was something I was involved in or supported.

I probably have worn a t-shirt with a peace sign on it; I supported peace; I'm definitely not a warmonger.
I've worn trendy jewelry; I'm note sure if I had an ankh.

Most of the other things you listed are pretty hahaha.
I'm not hung up on the word "heathen."

Now, why do you suppose they wore the patches on their prison uniforms?

I am not looking to "play" with you or anyone else.
I respect your work here on WS.

As a pagan myself, I don't know anyone at all that is an Odinist.

I do know many Pagans.
One of the things that we hold close is the freedom to express ourselves.

I know LE and Military Veterans that wear similar types of clothing and patches as the guards. Why?
My understanding is that it symbolizes a comraderie for people that have served. There is also a draw towards Viking and Valhalla. Personally, I have no issue with that.

JMO

 

[Jurisprudence]

This is so important. IMO When he ARRIVED 3 girls saw HIM, in my opinion. The three girls are not saying they saw a sketch, they are saying they saw him, IMO. The time the girls saw him was backed up by the time stamp of the photo the girls took minutes before the encounter.

If a person were to follow the alleged walk on the path RA took, he should have passed other witnesses on that path. I believe another witness saw RA shortly after the three girls saw him. I also believe this other witness passed/saw Libby and Abby.

I believe Libby took a snap shot and recorded the person that abducted Libby and Abby.

To me there is plenty of evidence to charge RA and take him to trial. Throwing shade at Odinite guards to move focus from RA is pathetic.

The X-D should think about moving their practice to West Memphis. Can one imagine?

P: It was devil worshippers
D: It was evil pagans

Do we know for certain that when RA thought he was being helpful and said he saw the girls on the trail that he was not confusing them with these other girls? I know there is a difference in number (3 vs 2) but I am curious because there is no evidence that we know of indicating that he knew who A&L were. According to the pca, RA stated back in 2017 that he saw 3 girls.

PCA, page 4

Investigators reviewing prior tips encountered a tip narrative from an officer who interviewed Richard
M Allen in 2017. That narrative stated:

Mr. Allen was on the trail between 1330-1530. He parked at the old Farm Bureau building and walked to the new Freedom Bridge. While at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. He noted one was taller and had brown or black hair. He did not remember description nor did he speak with them. He walked from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge. He did not see anybody, although he stated he was watching a stock ticker on his phone as he walked. He stated there were vehicles parked at the High Bridge trail head, however did not pay attention to them. He did not take any photos or video."

... On October13, 2022 Richard Allen was interviewed again by investigators. He advised he was on the
trails on February13, 2017. He stated he saw juvenile girls on the trails east of Freedom Bridge and that he went onto the Monon High Bridge. Richard Allen further stated he went out onto the Monon High Bridge to watch the fish."

Another witness saw 4 females, and then 2 (the latter presumably being A&L) [p.3]
A male witness saw 2 cars parked at CPS [p4]

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

There are a lot of problems with this pca, and a lot of leaps. But, that's jmo, not fact. This is not a statement one way or the other as to guilt or innocence.

jmo

 

[Ravenmoon]

Ok, I'll play.

I can say I have never gone out, bought a patch and sewed it on my clothing unless it was something I was involved in or supported.

I probably have worn a t-shirt with a peace sign on it; I supported peace; I'm definitely not a warmonger.
I've worn trendy jewelry; I'm note sure if I had an ankh.

Most of the other things you listed are pretty hahaha.
I'm not hung up on the word "heathen."

Now, why do you suppose they wore the patches on their prison uniforms?

I will also repeat that I am surprised that they were able and allowed to wear patches. I don't think that it's okay.

If they are, in fact, Odinists, why would they lie?
It's not illegal to be an Odinist.

They are not being tried for murder. They are not suspects.

Maybe they just like the patches.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I am not looking to "play" with you or anyone else.
I respect your work here on WS.

As a pagan myself, I don't know anyone at all that is an Odinist.

I do know many Pagans.
One of the things that we hold close is the freedom to express ourselves.

I know LE and Military Veterans that wear similar types of clothing and patches as the guards. Why?
My understanding is that it symbolizes a comraderie for people that have served. There is also a draw towards Viking and Valhalla. Personally, I have no issue with that.

JMO

I don't have any feelings one way or the other about Pagans, heathens, etc.
I know next to nothing about any of them.

I have no idea why the prison guards want to wear Odin patches but then deny being Odins.
Some groups might consider that Stolen valor.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Other problems with that pca include the exclusion/omission of potentially exculpatory information which if presented probably would have prevented the warrant from issuing. This includes, among other things RA's statement to Liggett that he probably left around 1:30, as opposed to DD later stating he was there until 3:30; and BB's eyewitness testimony.

jmo

 

[Ravenmoon]

I don't have any feelings one way or the other about Pagans, heathens, etc.
I know next to nothing about any of them.

I have no idea why the prison guards want to wear Odin patches but then deny being Odins.
Some groups might consider that Stolen valor.

Tricia, owner of Websleuths, had a woman on one of her YouTube shows that is an expert on Heathenry. It was interesting and definitely worth the watch.

I seem to also remember that an expert was welcomed on this site. I wish I could remember who that was because she would be able to answer these questions with certainty.


I just feel like the guards thought that the patches were cool ( I can't say I understand why) and wore them because they liked them.

People really do that kind of thing often. It doesn't HAVE to mean anything.

Stolen Valor? Not sure if that would apply if we are talking about Veterans and LE. Maybe there is a level of respect there. I really don't know.

The guards have denied that they are practicing Odinists. I have no reason to doubt that.

JMO

 

[Jurisprudence]

I agree.
I have no idea why the guards are under a microscope.
Having said that, it's enough to get conspiracy theories blowing in every direction.
People love a sinister bad guy.
They prefer satanic panic over the quiet, alcoholic CVS clerk that puts himself right at the scene of the crime.


JMO

The guards have been raised as an issue because their conduct is linked to whether they fed RA cs details and compelled him to recite them on a recorded line to his wife, and then recorded his atty/client meetings via camcorder as some sort of insurance. If you tell your attorneys, there will be consequences. We just do not know because the judge essentially stopped all lines of inquiry, granting a motion to quash based only on the Warden's word wo hearing, and not ruling on the recorded communications, also bc the IDOC said they would stop.

jmo

 

[susiQ]

Ok, I'll play.

I can say I have never gone out, bought a patch and sewed it on my clothing unless it was something I was involved in or supported.

I probably have worn a t-shirt with a peace sign on it; I supported peace; I'm definitely not a warmonger.
I've worn trendy jewelry; I'm note sure if I had an ankh.

Most of the other things you listed are pretty hahaha.
I'm not hung up on the word "heathen."

Now, why do you suppose they wore the patches on their prison uniforms?

Not OP FG but here’s more of my conspiracy “theory” and why they wore those patches!

The Odinism is merely the sideshow running alongside another show that is likely much bigger. IMHO.

The Odinism is only one side of the coin. Perhaps R & B aren’t fully aware of the other side, yet. What they have uncovered is significant, but there’s likely more to uncover. The guards may or may not be Odinists that like playing with runes, but were directed by someone they are linked to (the other side of the coin), to wear the patches to intimidate and scare RA. It obviously worked. They are merely a small part of this conspiracy. Effective conspiracies are all about compartmentalization. People only know what the one/s directing the conspiracy want them to know. It’s an effective strategy.

I suspect EF was lured in by the promise of a “brotherhood” of some sort or other, simple man that he is. He wanted to be one of them. He wanted to be “special” in another sense, never realizing how he was about to be used to participate in this crime. He likely has no idea who actually ordered it. He confesses to his sisters. BH warns off his ex that PW did it and “I can’t protect you if you don’t stop asking questions.” Of course, PW is an Odin worshipper. Convenient.

I have not ruled out that someway, somehow KAK’s AS account was used to lure the girls to the trails and bridge. I don’t think KAK is a killer. He’s a disgusting, perverted individual, just another pawn in this horrible conspiracy. He may have no idea how he aided in this tragedy by allowing others to use this account.

I wonder what all the D left out of the FM?

All my crazy musings And, of course MOO.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Other problems with that pca include the exclusion/omission of potentially exculpatory information which if presented probably would have prevented the warrant from issuing. This includes, among other things RA's statement to Liggett that he probably left around 1:30, as opposed to DD later stating he was there until 3:30; and BB's eyewitness testimony.

jmo

If the Occult theory was investigated, if the men mentioned in The Franks motion were investigated and no longer of interest, is this exculpatory? I would like to know.
The only thing I ( think) that I know about exculpatory evidence is that it is relating to information that could exonerate the defendant.
Hoping I have some kind of idea of what it really means.

I appreciate any information.

EBM for grammar

 

[Ravenmoon]

The guards have been raised as an issue because their conduct is linked to whether they fed RA cs details and compelled him to recite them on a recorded line to his wife, and then recorded his atty/client meetings via camcorder as some sort of insurance. If you tell your attorneys, there will be consequences. We just do not know because the judge essentially stopped all inquiry.

jmo

Wouldn't it have been more believable if they told him to go straight to LE and confess? Why do the roundabout idea of confess to your wife?
Why not say " Hey...confess to Law Enforcement or your family will pay."

It really doesn't make sense.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Wouldn't it have been more believable if they told him to go straight to LE and confess? Why do the roundabout idea of confess to your wife?
Why not say " Hey...confess to Law Enforcement or your family will pay."

It really doesn't make sense.

JMO

Does the defendant allege any of this actually happened?

Pretty wild allegations.

But I guess if RA is prepared to claim this on the stand the jury will hear it?

Otherwise i wonder how they can stand this up.

Especially i Wonder how much appetite the trial judge will have for odinism

 

[Jurisprudence]

Wouldn't it have been more believable if they told him to go straight to LE and confess? Why do the roundabout idea of confess to your wife?
Why not say " Hey...confess to Law Enforcement or your family will pay."

It really doesn't make sense.

JMO

A lot of this doesn't make sense, unfortunately. The warrant should have probably never issued, then we'd never be at the issue of what the guards did or did not do. If everything had been included the response by Dieter should have been (might have been) "Not enough. You need to go back and get more and reconcile these conflicts."

 

[mrjitty]

I will also repeat that I am surprised that they were able and allowed to wear patches. I don't think that it's okay.

If they are, in fact, Odinists, why would they lie?
It's not illegal to be an Odinist.

They are not being tried for murder. They are not suspects.

Maybe they just like the patches.

JMO

IMO this is the logical fallacy the defence wants you to engage in

If you accept the FBI analysis of the crime scene and further from there believe the offender must be an odinist, it obviously does not follow that all other odinists are involved.

Indeed it could be RA is an odinist and the prison guards are just dubious types who work at the prison

Without some actual evidence connecting them to the case eg testimony from RA, I don’t see how this flies

02c

 

[FrostedGlass]

Wouldn't it have been more believable if they told him to go straight to LE and confess? Why do the roundabout idea of confess to your wife?
Why not say " Hey...confess to Law Enforcement or your family will pay."

It really doesn't make sense.

JMO

He had stopped talking to LE months ago. It might look kind of suspicious if he suddenly bypassed his well-liked attys to go to LE. It was better for him to have a moment of regret and confess to his wife.
MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if RAs wife will testify?

 

[Jurisprudence]

Here’s a hypothetical, sort of:

A guy (EF), who confessed to his sister that he was there and had guilty knowledge, happens to be linked to an Odinist that has a “link” to one of the girls. EF tells his sister he put sticks in AW‘s hair, because she was a “troublemaker.” Now who would put that in his head? Furthermore, the guy EF is linked to has pics on his FB that depict some pretty weird ”stuff”, like the CS. Again, nothing to see there. Then, two guards at Westville guarding the accused RA (not deemed guilty yet), just “happen” to sport Odin patches, and according to another inmate, are abusing RA. What a coincidence!?

So, I look at that and I see a problem. A line of investigation that should have taken them elsewhere didn’t. Again, why? LE rather choose to hone in on RA, who had the misfortune of being at the trails and bridge that day, that came forward to offer some assistance. LE massage the times and witness statements to obtain a SW by omitting crucial material that may have given JD pause in issuing said SW.

Personally, I do have a problem with all of this and I can see the “issue” linking the Odin patch wearing guards.
JMHO

ETA: I believe the people who actually did this would like to see RA take his own life. Why? (Lots of why in my mind). Because then, it all goes away. No more investigations, no more FM. Clean getaway. R & B uncovered what they didn’t want uncovered. Too many connections that they do not want revealed. Again, JMHO

[bbm]

I agree. There are certainly open questions that were not sufficiently explained. His 2 sisters went to LE (one more than once and even had to enlist a friend at Homeland Security in order to be heard). It could be that he was in fact present as he said he was; that he was in fact a witness; that he was in fact promised to now become a part of a brotherhood.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

 

[Jurisprudence]

If the Occult theory was investigated, if the men mentioned in The Franks motion were investigated and no longer of interest, is this exculpatory? I would like to know.
The only thing I ( think) that I know about exculpatory evidence is that it is relating to information that could exonerate the defendant.
Hoping I have some kind of idea of what it really means.

I appreciate any information.

EBM for grammar

This is a point of contention. Their position is that the Odinite angle was abandoned by March 2017, only a few weeks after the events based on a conclusion by a Purdue professor concerning Odinism and the crime scene. They go on to explain [FM, 50-51] that Holeman himself told conflicting accounts of this which would make it potentially exculpatory. Holeman under oath apparently stated Odinism and cults were not involved, but in private acknowledged to Purdy that the results of that report were inconclusive. According to Purdy, that avenue of investigation was not complete. [p.50]

It should also be noted that Trooper Purdy initially learned about a potential Odinism connection through LG's grandmother [p. 50] who told him in 2017 that Abby was dating someone whose father was one. What caused her to even bring that up? Curious.

 

[TL4S]

For a moment, what if we took RA and Odinists out of the equation.

What if an investigative reporter published a piece on how the prison guards at Westville prison in IN were allowed to wear patches that contained symbols which could be interpreted as something to do with white supremacy groups? A lot of folks would find that totally inappropriate on a prison uniform, regardless if the wearer was a white supremacist or not. It's a detail that also inspires questions about the warden and his operating standards. Jmo.

And what if a piece was published about how a judge was not releasing public documents or following due process accordingly, whether intentional or not?

What if there was a piece on how LE officers were omitting witness statements and other evidence to get search warrants?

These things might not be factual in this case, it's still being decided. It's frustrating that L & A's case has been dragged through so many facets of the system, but maybe the high-profile nature of this case is bringing things to light that really should have been long ago. At least some of us in the public have a better understanding now of procedures that are supposed to be in place to protect us. The ex-D walked through doors already left open by the state, imo.

 

[mrjitty]

For a moment, what if we took RA and Odinists out of the equation.

What if an investigative reporter published a piece on how the prison guards at Westville prison in IN were allowed to wear patches that contained symbols which could be interpreted as something to do with white supremacy groups? A lot of folks would find that totally inappropriate on a prison uniform, regardless if the wearer was a white supremacist or not. It's a detail that also inspires questions about the warden and his operating standards. Jmo.

And what if a piece was published about how a judge was not releasing public documents or following due process accordingly, whether intentional or not?

What if there was a piece on how LE officers were omitting witness statements and other evidence to get search warrants?

These things might not be factual in this case, it's still being decided. It's frustrating that L & A's case has been dragged through so many facets of the system, but maybe the high-profile nature of this case is bringing things to light that really should have been long ago. At least some of us in the public have a better understanding of procedures that are supposed to be in place to protect us. The ex-D walked through doors already left open by the state, imo.

Sure. What you write is logical. It’s the working of everything into one conspiracy which is my issue with the Franks

Judge Gull didn’t find the defence advanced falsities because she is an Odinist

 

[TL4S]

Sure. What you write is logical. It’s the working of everything into one conspiracy which is my issue with the Franks

Judge Gull didn’t find the defence advanced falsities because she is an Odinist

I agree. Claiming the guards are Odinists, therefore must be threatening their client, since Odinists might have been the actual killers, is just too big of a stretch for me, personally. It's kind of a coincidence, maybe, but so was KAK, I guess.

But if the warden hadn't allowed his guards to wear those patches to begin with, the D wouldn't have had anything to support their claim. Imo, it's these kinds of mistakes that gave the ex-D a foothold. I feel like that's kind of part of a D attorney's job, to look for these footholds. Jmo.