Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

[BNA]

Pure speculation and I'm sure we have discussed this before but of everything Carter said in the last press conference the one thing that really sticks with me was when he said "you want to know what we know...." my first impression of that statement and the impression I still hold today is that BG has in some way made communication with LE, similar to the Zodiac.

Something had to have set off that press conference. Why, when they just had the anniversary press conference in February would they come out in April with all this new direction business. Did LE have the press conference in order to communicate back to him. We've all discussed the various things Carter said in that press conference that appear to be directed at the killer, The Shack, his conscience, their not the way you left them and so on....

I really had the feeling that BG had made contact with LE, taunting them.

I agree about communication. Maybe not perceived at first as a taunt, tho. Maybe perceived in the beginnin as a citizen cooperating with and/or offering assistance.

And, the switch in strategy then resulting from LE taking another look at that contact.

 

[Charlot123]

If he is employed somewhere with Mondays off such as a barber or factory worker, someone may eventually make the connection between him and the sketch. But if he is self-employed, then that connection is more difficult to make.

Or a student? Maybe even a high-schooler?

 

[Charlot123]

That is exactly what I thought too. I had no idea how realistic the masks are and how attainable (i.e, not Hollywood makeup job) it was to disguise yourself.

I wonder if there are any YouTubes teaching them how to do it, put on masks and makeup.

To me, the mask is possible as there are some traits, like the “bulbous nose”, that seem to be outré. Unrealistic.

It is easier to imagine that his traits were disguised by the mask. I would not be surprised if it was a demi-mask, like the Phantom of the opera wore, and I do think BG was wearing a scarf, too.

If the mask, the person needs to look one way at the “entry point” and a very different one at the exit one.

I don’t think he risks carrying the mask with him, so he’d probably bury it somewhere. Or throw out.

About the DNA. I wonder if he understood that there would be his DNA found somewhere, and intentionally planted someone else’s. He could rub whatever he “left” with a clothing item belonging to a neighbor/roommate/less likely, a family member. We shed a lot of dead cells, something covering the legs works well as the source of them.

This does not indicate a drug kingpin to me. This indicates an educated person who probably took some criminology classes, or at least read about DNA enough.

And one more question. If we accept the mask theory. This person has to be able to mask and change clothes fast as well. What training gives these skills?

An army? Police? Theater?

Food for thoughts.

 

[weepingangel]

Plenty of people have Mondays off. Barbers, many restaurants, just off the top of my head.

Tattoo artists (at least in my general area)

 

[BradB]

I think the main problem is anything goes in this case. Perp can be 15 to 50. Maybe a teacher? Maybe a drug addict? Maybe a bum? Maybe overall just a predator?

We have to come to the conclusion they were being followed for a while because one of the victims here actually recorded the supposed perp. I will believe until my last day that a rapist or whoever is sexually motivated wouldnt attack 2 random people during the day in a public place. I will always believe there is more to this than everybody leads to believe. It isnt your typical case.

 

[BradB]

LE also claimed they have multiple people working on this case daily.

So what have you actually gathered that is worth anything during that time?

You ask for the public's help but chastise them at the same time. You make false claims on how you believe certain things but fail to actually deliver any proof or any substance..

It's a joke. I've been over it. This isnt made for TV or made for movies. This is real life.

 

[BradB]

Why the hell would a rapist or pedo choose 2 victims in a public place during the day when there are a million other opportunities to do so? I'm assuming.

This guy had some knowledge of who the victims were. I will always believe that.

 

[EmmaRose]

I wonder if there are any YouTubes teaching them how to do it, put on masks and makeup.

To me, the mask is possible as there are some traits, like the “bulbous nose”, that seem to be outré. Unrealistic.

It is easier to imagine that his traits were disguised by the mask. I would not be surprised if it was a demi-mask, like the Phantom of the opera wore, and I do think BG was wearing a scarf, too.

If the mask, the person needs to look one way at the “entry point” and a very different one at the exit one.

I don’t think he risks carrying the mask with him, so he’d probably bury it somewhere. Or throw out.

About the DNA. I wonder if he understood that there would be his DNA found somewhere, and intentionally planted someone else’s. He could rub whatever he “left” with a clothing item belonging to a neighbor/roommate/less likely, a family member. We shed a lot of dead cells, something covering the legs works well as the source of them.

This does not indicate a drug kingpin to me. This indicates an educated person who probably took some criminology classes, or at least read about DNA enough.

And one more question. If we accept the mask theory. This person has to be able to mask and change clothes fast as well. What training gives these skills?

An army? Police? Theater?

Food for thoughts.

Fireman?

 

[PaulaDC]

My best friend's father was a Barber. He was off on Monday's

Restaurants are closed Mondays. Nicer ones.

 

[Charlot123]

LE also claimed they have multiple people working on this case daily.

So what have you actually gathered that is worth anything during that time?

You ask for the public's help but chastise them at the same time. You make false claims on how you believe certain things but fail to actually deliver any proof or any substance..

It's a joke. I've been over it. This isnt made for TV or made for movies. This is real life.

@BradB, I understand how we all might be upset that they are not delivering, but with disappearance, often, there are no leads. Privacy laws don’t help, either, because they limit access to cell phones. Here, at least, the case has country-wide publicity, but so many people just disappear. Maybe there is some cross-correlation between the crimes, but who can see it?

But in many unresolved cases that we hear about, there is often no connection between the victims and the perps. Or, the connection is so flimsy (like BTK, who installed security systems...not your first thought).

The LE might be working day and night, but they are overwhelmed with tons of useless clues, and also, some valuable ones.

I think every profession thinks in cliches. Usually, they work. Maybe, this case is an outlier on all statistic lines, so nothing applies.

An example, Steve Paddock - age-wise he was outside of all ranges for mass shooters. He was a loner, but not lonely. He had a girlfriend. No prior history of violence, minimal, of mental illness. Predictors for violence are off in his case. Yet it happened.

Maybe here, too, we are imagining a young religious computer nerd living nearby, and it will happen to be an older family man with sciatica who left Delphi 30 years ago. And a secret heathen. Who knows? If he had guts to use the mask, it puts him into a different category.

 

[Charlot123]

Fireman?

Yes, a firefighter. Or a paramedic, they, too, are trained to act fast. Also - he has an odd gait but he has good command of his body, so, athletic.

 

[Charlot123]

Well.....what if he left the bodies in a cross? I was thinking about that as well. That kind of staging would take very little time and could bring about the religious tone in the PC? There has been hints of some sort of staging or symbolism in the way the bodies were found.

They think he is religious because of certain symbolism, but what if he was secretly laughing at them, or merely, psychotic?

 

[margarita25]

One thing that is somewhat different here to many child murders with a sexual motive, if we are to assume that here, is that the victims were not removed from the scene, abducted and killed elsewhere. Yes they were marched “down the hill”, but essentially this is different from say the murders of Jessica Ridgeway or Hailey Owens for example who were taken to the perps’ residences.

I was thinking about this in relation to finding other possibly related cases—victims killed in a nature type setting, on site.

Does BG participate in both onsite and offsite murders? Maybe he has a family which is why he can not bring them home and perhaps why he maaay have to travel to an external location to commit these crimes?

So far we have Lizzie and Lyric which are obviously similar, and Alicia Hummel as far as the setting. Perhaps we should look more into murders committed in these types of settings, parks, etc., victims who were killed quickly onsite, perhaps in neighboring states, even nationwide really, especially if he travels for his job.

 

[Charlot123]

I wouldn't think he would leave it near the trails. I wonder if there is a way LE could search at least the major mask selling stores online records and see if any were sent to Delphi or surrounding areas. Or local Halloween stores records and then look at the surveillance video for that day. There can't be that many people buying human masks.

I watched several YouTube videos about people making portrait masks. (This would be too bulky, but the artists are so talented!) I think he’d buy more expensive ones, and not from Amazon.

Another version - not mask - but a theater actor. Someone taught how to apply makeup, change the form of the nose, lips.

Even a good amateur actor could do it. And he can change clothes very fast.

Someone who played in school or college theater.

 

[Charlot123]

Ok, I know this has been discussed before many times. But it just really clicked for me! I just watched a video on social media and it looked like some older men dancing to a hip hop song. In the comments, it mentions they are young and masked and I was like "what??" These were really good masks, not a Halloween garish kind. From afar, totally realistic.

So my new theory (as of now, it changes daily!) is that BG was wearing a mask for his bridge walk. That could be why Libby got so scared and went to video him surreptitiously. She never mentioned it during the chatter about a creepy man earlier because she didn't notice it until he was closer. By the time she does and realizes how odd is body language is and they are isolated with him, she is in panic mode just trying to get a recording of him and not bothering to narrate her video. Or maybe never realized it. But either way, he is masked. Between the pixels, distance, and quick pan, LE were not able to tell it was a mask and are amazed they have this footage, put a lot of stock in it, and go with a sketch made from the video and perhaps a witness that saw him from afar on the bridge.

Meanwhile, there are sightings of someone suspicious or in the same clothing , but he is a much younger man, he has a bunch of hair, no facial hair, etc. Sketch is made, but not gone with because the focus is on the bridge video and any witness that saw him on/near the bridge, which is of course is when he would have been masked.

Google realistic human masks and you will see how real life they are! Again, I know this is an old theory, but I didn't really take it seriously until I saw how real they look. Wish.com has one with facial hair and a bald head for only $12. Very creepy!

I hope the mods won’t be unhappy. You can buy the
Barry- Old Man Mask- great disguise and made to order- bald no eyebrows
m on Etsy, too.

He could have used this one...

Silicone Mask | Realistic Young Man



Silicone Mask Old Man "Marvin" Halloween Hand Made Realistic High Quality,

Maybe LE could use one of these realistic mask shop owners and ask them what mask does BG on Libby’s video resemble? I bet they will know. And then look who bought them?

 

[margarita25]

My strong thoughts today are that he’s very likely done it again and we need to find that crime, moo, jmo. I’m googling all kinds of things like “teen found in park”, “body found in forest”, etc etc. Needle in a haystack, of course. There are so many crimes.

Would you guys agree he’s likely killed again since the murders of Abby & Libby? Does anyone here think it’s likely he hasn’t? We are going on year 3 here. Some have long cooling off periods.

Thoughts?

—

ETA: I’ve been thinking a lot lately about COD and potential “signatures” here. Again we understand why LE has to keep this close to the vest. They have to be able to weed it false confessions, etc. We all know that.

However I’m remembering a case where a certain disturbing sexual detail was shared in another case. A lady heard about this and thought that sounded like something her boyfriend did to her one time...that ended up being the break that solved that case...my point is I’m really wondering about all this close to the vest business re: COD only because I’m wondering if there’s something there that could ring a bell with someone, maybe someone who escaped or a domestic partner or family member, idk...Whatever LE does LE does and we have to go with it. I’m just wanting so badly to try to find some sort of connection somewhere and really it’s impossible with no information. Really all we know 2 1/2 years later is this:

A man on a bridge killed Abby and Libby on Feb 13, 2017 in Delphi, Indiana.

That’s really we all know when I really think about it.

We don’t know a single thing else for sure.

What else do we know for sure about the perp and the crime? I’m asking seriously and I’m going to think hard about this myself.

We know he marched them down the hill.

And we know he killed them.

111 threads.

We have a sketch. It depends on how much trust one puts in the sketch.

We have his voice.

I guess whatever LE thinks for sure (that they want us to know) is on the FBI website:

ABIGAIL WILLIAMS | Federal Bureau of Investigation

LIBERTY GERMAN | Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[Charlot123]

My strong thoughts today are that he’s very likely done it again and we need to find that crime, moo, jmo. I’m googling all kinds of things like “teen found in park”, “body found in forest”, etc etc. Needle in a haystack, of course. There are so many crimes.

Would you guys agree he’s likely killed again since the murders of Abby & Libby? Does anyone here think it’s likely he hasn’t? We are going on year 3 here. Some have long cooling off periods.

Thoughts?

—

ETA: I’ve been thinking a lot lately about COD and potential “signatures” here. Again we understand why LE has to keep this close to the vest. They have to be able to weed it false confessions, etc. We all know that.

However I’m remembering a case where a certain disturbing sexual detail was shared in another case. A lady heard about this and thought that sounded like something her boyfriend did to her one time...that ended up being the break that solved that case...my point is I’m really wondering about all this close to the vest business re: COD only because I’m wondering if there’s something there that could ring a bell with someone, maybe someone who escaped or a domestic partner or family member, idk...Whatever LE does LE does and we have to go with it. I’m just wanting so badly to try to find some sort of connection somewhere and really it’s impossible with no information. Really all we know 2 1/2 years later is this:

A man on a bridge killed Abby and Libby on Feb 13, 2017 in Delphi, Indiana.

That’s really we all know when I really think about it.

We don’t know a single thing else for sure.

What else do we know for sure about the perp and the crime? I’m asking seriously and I’m going to think hard about this myself.

We know he marched them down the hill.

And we know he killed them.

111 threads.

We have a sketch. It depends on how much trust one puts in the sketch.

We have his voice.

I guess whatever LE thinks for sure is on the FBI website.

Bumping Flyers:

Honestly, maybe even something from the tape? Because only a person who knows the voice very well could recognize it. To me the person sounds horribly angry. But maybe if one hears more words...

Yes, I think as the LE is sitting on this case, the risk of something else happening here increases exponentially.

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[susiQ]

One thing that is somewhat different here to many child murders with a sexual motive, if we are to assume that here, is that the victims were not removed from the scene, abducted and killed elsewhere. Yes they were marched “down the hill”, but essentially this is different from say the murders of Jessica Ridgeway or Hailey Owens for example who were taken to the perps’ residences.

I was thinking about this in relation to finding other possibly related cases—victims killed in a nature type setting, on site.

Does BG participate in both onsite and offsite murders? Maybe he has a family which is why he can not bring them home and perhaps why he maaay have to travel to an external location to commit these crimes?

So far we have Lizzie and Lyric which are obviously similar, and Alicia Hummel as far as the setting. Perhaps we should look more into murders committed in these types of settings, parks, etc., victims who were killed quickly onsite, perhaps in neighboring states, even nationwide really, especially if he travels for his job.

I thought about Lizzy and Lyric, but it just doesn't fit with the PC in April. Carter made clear that as a "result of NEW [bbm] information and intelligence over time" it lead them to believe the killer "is from Delphi, currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here." This would eliminate some random perp from out of state. I imagine it scared the cr@p out of the locals, to realize HE is amongst them "hiding in plain sight." Carter also asked that the media give the family time as they only learned of these things that very morning. Likely, a great shock.

I don't know if LE knows who the killer is. Maybe they know but can't prove it yet. If only WE knew what that NEW information was. Where would we be with our sleuthing? Would our secret POI stand up to this "new" information? I also realized they only want to know WHO the driver of the vehicle parked at the CPS building was, not identify the vehicle. Did the witness see the driver do something "odd/suspicious" that she felt needed reporting? Did the new information support what she saw hence the sketch made only 3 days post murder became THE most important sketch? I sincerely hope they have some solid leads and they are just crossing their t's and dotting their i's. These girls deserve justice, and the good people of Delphi deserve not to live in fear of BG. JMO

 

[margarita25]

rsbm
Yes, I think as the LE is sitting on this case, the risk of something else happening here increases exponentially.

Oh I don’t think they’re sitting on anything. Quite the opposite. That’s actually what troubles me: If they have the FBI, ISP, Parabon maybe, etc and they stiiiill don’t have him... I think these guys are working it hard...no way do I think they’re sitting on anything. Jmo.

Imo just because LE hasn’t found him (yet), it doesn’t mean it’s their fault, and/or it doesn’t mean they don’t have irons in the fire as we speak or are not working this case. These guys are “tore up” by all appearances, understandably, working it hard JMO. Again that’s what bothers me: So why haven’t they found him yet? Like I said, possibly because he is more than lucky, moo. Again, I’m also afraid it’s going to take another crime(s) to find this guy.

As we know they say in forensics someone always leaves something at the crime scene and/or takes something with them.