Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[IceIce9]

My thoughts branch off in several directions, wondering about my dwindlingly few POI.

Does anyone know much about German Baptists in the Delphi area...? Do they shun electricity like the Amish? Is it true they wear only clothing sans zippers? What kinds of work do they do to make a living? Do they drive cars? Do they use phones? The internet? Do they read the Bible or some other religious tome?

I think the April PC was a declaration to the killer "We are on to you!!!". I think there is a LOT going on behind the scenes. I am hopeful for an arrest in the coming weeks or certainly by the close of this calendar year.

Just not sure if it's THIS POI or THAT one. LE has successfully kept MUCH out of the public eye. That is as it should be. I don't think LE are clueless at all. I believe they're closing in. Tick Tock BG! Give it up now while you have a chance to negotiate or you'll be strapped on the gurney wishing you had!

The Old German Baptist are headquartered near Delphi in Camden. This group also has a settlement (not sure if settlement is the correct term) in Missouri.

They read the Bible, they don’t use (or grow) tobacco, they don’t use phones or electricity.

They wear simple clothing similar to Amish but the women and girls wear colors, where Amish wear black.

Every year they have an annual conference or meeting near Delphi, I have seen the huge tent they put up. Hundreds of church members attend. They cook meals for everyone on the site.


They are similar to Old Order German Baptists except they use horses to farm and OOGB use tractors.

 

[TheVisual]

**stereo- typing post alert.**

'typically' (of course this isn't always) women buy mens clothes for them or at least with them (I know my man can not be left to make clothes choices by himself EVER)
so......that blue jacket.
who has a blue jacket in their closet? I wouldn't think that many. its so specific.
odds are favourable imo that someone purchased that jacket for BG at some point in time.
I reckon LE should come out appealing from this angle.

There's a blue jacket in my BG's closet!

 

[moonlessnight]

oh, did you mean Abby & Libby in this quote?

The person who met Lyric and her cousin was older, and may have been even older than they thought, but young looking. I'm not tied to any age with the Evansdale cousin abductions/murders.

I think there's some sort of industry connection between Evansdale and Delphi - pork, corn, something where employees may work in both locations ... anyone remember the company?

 

[moonlessnight]

like finding a SD card with the murders on it, which happened in Canada in another murder the other day.

Also worth mentioning would be...finding brand new evidence.
It happened in the Rhoden case where it appeared that LE knew who was guilty for a considerable amount of time but chose not to arrest...until they checked a certain well on a previously owned property of the suspects.

 

[Falling Down]

By 'German Baptist", do you mean 'Mennonite'?

If so, the answers to most of your questions could be the exacting answer of "maybe, but maybe not". Mennonites have a practice of modest, simple living like the Amish do. But.... each Mennonite congregation defines those concepts for themselves.

This means that Mennonites can range from "almost Amish" to "almost modern" depending on the individual congregation. I have not known one to forbid phones, but more conservative ones could well require limited phone usage and forbid internet access in homes.

Likewise, I have gotten the impression that members in conservative congregations may not have individual access to cars. Rather, cars belong to an extended family and are used when needed for specific purposes (usually runs into town for farm supplies, tools, medical appointments and utilitarian men's clothing). In more liberal congregations, however, Mennonites routinely own cars as individuals and don't need a specific "supply run" purpose to drive.

Depending on the congregation, clothing can vary from "almost Amish" to 1970s farm "modern" (sans Daisy Dukes of course). Electricity is the same way- some may not use it, others may have restrictions on it, and others no restrictions.

Most Mennonites work farm or trade jobs and women are full time mothers. One Mennonite told me that his congregation forbids business owners from having more than five employees and from managing labor indirectly (keeps business small and interaction with employees personal). Yet, other Mennonite owned businesses don't have that restriction.

This is a great general description of Mennonites in this region, I'm familiar with some Mennonite folks across NW Ohio and northern IN.

They also have a tendency to "set up" marriages, they'll find mates for their men and women to marry.

-FD

 

[Mike Britton]

Speaking of brand new evidence, fiber evidence could also be present from the offender. Fibers from a POI's house, car, his parents' house. Carpet fiber evidence helped convict Wayne Williams.

 

[Jbetty567]

I am pretty sure that was not the case because the bodies were not found for about 8 months in the Iowa case. They were not even able to determine COD IMO. Perhaps the poster who mentioned that could post a link but I don't remember who it was.

Correct - no COD known to investigators in Iowa case.

It's been 7 years, finding the link will take time - the articles about social media that Lyric was using, connections to her cousin, the night they were late returning home when Lyric's parents called police. The cousin did not give any more information about who they met at the park.

Police in Evansdale and Delphi know more than we do, but what if we put everything they both know together - what does that look like?

It hasn't been ruled out that there is a connection, just that there's no evidence of a connection. The Evansdale bones and shoes may not have DNA.

Late to the party here but I’d love this link too if you can find it. I have liked into the L/A case quite a bit and haven’t seen this info about Lyric meeting someone at a park earlier. Thanks!

 

[busymcmoody]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, I apologize if that's the case but apparently Warner Bros are producing a podcast called DOWN THE HILL - The Delphi Murders.

 

[Cryptic]

Back on the 28th of February 2017, WLFI published a statement from LE that they were making a concerted effort to bring fliers about the murder to the German Baptist populations near Delphi and the reason given was that these groups may be out of touch with the latest news.

Directly contacting them can't hurt. If the German Baptists are Mennonites, their contact with the outside world can vary from 'little' to 'quite a bit' depending on the congregation.

My impression, however, is that even the 'quite a bit' ones may only know of the murders in general terms as even the ones that have television or the internet probably don't use them a lot.

Well, one of my second uncles is either Volga German, or Dutch Mennonite on his maternal side. Interesting.

As a side note, the Volga Germans included a lot of Catholic and Lutheran sponsored settlements. I think these two groups were the majority, with Mennonite type groups placing third.

 

[JDough]

I have been researching popular apps that teens use, and came across this article listing 21 of them. There are a couple I haven't heard of before....... this list may be a great resource for cases involving the social media aspect? (I realize a social media connection with Abby and Libby hasn't been revealed).
Here are a few (see article for full list):

Best Secret Folder: This app is specifically meant to "hide photos and videos," and features password protection, decoy videos and alarm settings.

- Monkey: It is a live video chat app that connects users to random strangers worldwide, offering group chat and private message options. It claims to be rated for ages 12 and up but has "mild sexual content and nudity."

Skout: It's a location-based dating app. While users under 17 years old are unable to share private photos, kids can easily create an account with an older age.

- Whatsapp: This is a popular messaging app that allows users to send texts, photos, voicemails, as well as make calls and video chats.

LiveMe: This live-streaming video app uses geolocation to share videos so users can find out a broadcaster's exact location. Users can earn coins within the app and use them as a way to pay minors for photos.

- Holla: The app's makers admit it's an "addicting" video chat app. It allows users to meet people all over the world in just seconds.

- Whisper: This is an anonymous social network that promotes sharing secrets with strangers. It also reveals a user's location so people can meet up.

Sarasota sheriff warns parents about more apps following arrest of 23 suspected child predators

 

[tresir2012]

Deteted

 

[tresir2012]

What I dont get...is why would certain YouTubers hold on to the claim that TB is BG, insisting that ISP can't investigate TB because he was arrested in another state for a different crime...

Yet...

This article shows LE is sharing info in TB with other police departments??

Isnt it pretty clear at this point that TB is not BG??

There are quite a few that we have heard no more about, but they were being looked at- Etter for instance and anyone with crimes against children IIRC.

 

[tresir2012]

Talking of Mennonnites sharing a vehicle, maybe that was the VOI and LE can't get the info about who was driving it that day.

 

[Boxer]

After all that bickering here yesterday I was looking to get back on track with some debating, even if it was a stretch.

Moo the racket made by a truck in a riverbed would be noticed and disliked by neighbors on CR 625 at least.

 

[Boxer]

Talking of Mennonnites sharing a vehicle, maybe that was the VOI and LE can't get the info about who was driving it that day.

That is a good idea, also there is speculation as to his jacket being button snap style, which is typically worn by Amish in that area.

 

[sunshineray]

Correct - no COD known to investigators in Iowa case.

Late to the party here but I’d love this link too if you can find it. I have liked into the L/A case quite a bit and haven’t seen this info about Lyric meeting someone at a park earlier. Thanks!

I was under the impression that the investigators for the Evansdale murders were withholding the COD, just like Delphi. I even read that Evansdale had two different people confess and were discounted because they didn't know the particulars.

 

[TL4S]

The person who met Lyric and her cousin was older, and may have been even older than they thought, but young looking. I'm not tied to any age with the Evansdale cousin abductions/murders.

I think there's some sort of industry connection between Evansdale and Delphi - pork, corn, something where employees may work in both locations ... anyone remember the company?

So you got me curious. I read all the posts after and followed what other's said about Weichman Pig Company. There's one located in Delphi, just north of the trail and on the west side of Hoosier Heartland Hwy. There's also a Weichman Pig Company in La Porte, Iowa, which is about 14 miles south of Evansdale. There are many other locations (all off major highway systems), as well: http://wiechmanpig.com/stations.html

One difference between the cases is that in IA, the girls were transported to another location, where in IN they were not (unless the original intention was the get them to a vehicle parked at the cemetery, but plans changed).

The Indiana Packers plant has reviews on Google, and the truck drivers complain that they sit there for up to 10 hours waiting to load/unload. It's less than an hours walk to the trail from there, so I haven't completely dismissed that idea, either. A truck driver could be based anywhere between the two murder locations and have routine routes both directions. Just a few thoughts.

 

[sunshineray]

I was reviewing and thinking about the April PC, yes...again. Two things...

It was stated by ISP that the family was only told the news contained in the PC a little bit before the conference started. When I was watching the conference the reporter mentioned seeing the Patty's leaving right befored the PC started. Reporter said they were very upset with BP crying, so it would seem they were told right there on site, that day.

My thought was why did the ISP inform the family in this way? ISP Carter even requested the media to give them 2 weeks of privacy. If there's that concern for them then why not tell them say the night before the PC in private at their home or at the police station, away from all media? It would have been kinder and made more sense considering LE's media request, don't you think?

The only reason that stands up and shouts is the ISP knew the family would recognise who that sketch was and couldn't tell them ahead of time to keep it secret because LE wanted the killer to not suspect the new strategy at all. They wanted him there at the conference and felt he would be there, because he'd been at the others, unless he felt a bad vibe from others. They couldn't tell the family until that day and at that place because killer is in a familiar circle with the family somehow.

The second thing was don't you think it was very personal and less generic to bring up religion in the way it was addressed? The ISP have seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears the horrors the killer committed against two young girls. Yet they addressed this monster at one point like they thought, like they knew, he had religion in him, a bit a conscious left. It wasn't said as a stab in the dark, let's see IF this is relatable to him or his people. LE knew religion was a significant part of the killer's life, his family's life, because they know who he is, they know who his people are...I think it's going to turn out that the girl's families know him also. AJMO Thoughts?

 

[TL4S]

I was under the impression that the investigators for the Evansdale murders were withholding the COD, just like Delphi. I even read that Evansdale had two different people confess and were discounted because they didn't know the particulars.

This video (the longer one at the bottom of the page) has Holeman talking about the Evansdale murders. He says they do not know the COD in that case.
Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[Thelastleg]

I was reviewing and thinking about the April PC, yes...again. Two things...

It was stated by ISP that the family was only told the news contained in the PC a little bit before the conference started. When I was watching the conference the reporter mentioned seeing the Patty's leaving right befored the PC started. Reporter said they were very upset with BP crying, so it would seem they were told right there on site, that day.

My thought was why did the ISP inform the family in this way? ISP Carter even requested the media to give them 2 weeks of privacy. If there's that concern for them then why not tell them say the night before the PC in private at their home or at the police station, away from all media? It would have been kinder and made more sense considering LE's media request, don't you think?

The only reason that stands up and shouts is the ISP knew the family would recognise who that sketch was and couldn't tell them ahead of time to keep it secret because LE wanted the killer to not suspect the new strategy at all. They wanted him there at the conference and felt he would be there, because he'd been at the others, unless he felt a bad vibe from others. They couldn't tell the family until that day and at that place because killer is in a familiar circle with the family somehow.

The second thing was don't you think it was very personal and less generic to bring up religion in the way it was addressed? The ISP have seen with their own eyes and heard with their own ears the horrors the killer committed against two young girls. Yet they addressed this monster at one point like they thought, like they knew, he had religion in him, a bit a conscious left. It wasn't said as a stab in the dark, let's see IF this is relatable to him or his people. LE knew religion was a significant part of the killer's life, his family's life, because they know who he is, they know who his people are...I think it's going to turn out that the girl's families know him also. AJMO Thoughts?

Totally agree with everything you say. I did mention after the pc that I thought it was very insensitive of LE to tell them at that time when they were in the public eye.