Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[soylattesandsleuthing]

The majority of murders are targeted, so that may have been their default assumption. They also put billboards all over the country, so they apparently wanted badly to believe that BG wasn't a local. Two-and-a-half years of investigation has changed things.

I agree, thought I think the billboards were put up in case BG got out of town or so that non-locals who know BG could see them. My suspicion is that LE had a hunch from the beginning that they were dealing with someone within the community.

 

[Peppery]

Totally random thought... are there any professions that not only require a thorough background check, but also DNA collection? I don’t know why, but I can’t shake the feeling that the perp is in a position of authority.

Current military service members have their DNA recorded. I don’t know the laws about running criminal evidence against it though.

We’ve discussed in depth how there are multiple databases of DNA that can’t legally be used in criminal investigations. At least not yet.

 

[taximama24]

Are SC names traceable. What was Libby's SC name? I notice on her pics it says "Liberty German" so is that her user name? What if someone uses a false name? Can they be traced if they are using a VPN?

Sorry for all the questions. I don't expect you to answer all but anyone can jump in. TY for explaining

Ok so on SC, you have a "user name" that you create your account with and can never be changed, but the "profile name" is whatever the receiver has you listed as in their own phone. As a default, when you create your profile you can leave it blank or enter your name. When someone you have friended gets a snap from you, it will show up as the profile name you have entered if you have done that, if not it will show up with your user name. And then on their end, someone you have friended has the additional option of editing your profile name as well, and when they receive a snap from you it will take precedence. So whomever screenshot those pics that LE uses that opened them from Libby is someone that either has her listed as "Liberty German" in their SC contacts, or Libby herself entered her name in her profile as Liberty German, she does seem to use them both.
Twitter: libby1227 (does not appear she was active on this account other than the day she created it in 2014)
Kik: lrlgerman
Snapchat: libbybaby1227
Instagram: Its_A_German_Thing (this account was listed in her twitter profile but no longer exists) my guess is either the family have deleted it or it was an outdated account. Most teens her age use IG quite a bit so I would expect she had an active account at the time of the murders, just not sure it was this one.
Facebook: the family has taken it over as an "in memoriam" page and it uses Liberty now

As for your last question...like I said, if she was actively communicating with someone on SC at the time of the murders and LE does have her phone (not just access to the cloud) they would have been able to see that, just not the actual pics they sent each other, or the chats unless one of them "saved" it. Even if that person suspected LE would see them on her contact list and be suspicious and "deleted" her as a friend, their user name would still show up on her communication list but greyed out (not their profile name, just the user name). BUT the only thing I am not positive about is if someone actually were to have "blocked" Libby after the fact to try and avoid a tie back to her SC, would their user name still show up in grey on her recent communication list...my hunch is no. So if that were the case, that would probably be something they would have needed a warrant from SC to recover, but I do believe all of that is recoverable so LE would surely know that by now, just not right away at the time of the murders. Hope that helps!

 

[Peppery]

I never thought of a bone marrow bank or database. However, I doubt LE can access those as this might be against HIPAA and other medical privacy laws.

I wonder about the DNA collected in the military. There was a plane crash in Canada decades ago and the US military members (USAF? can't remember) killed in the crash were carrying their medical and dental records since they'd been overseas. Identification of the bodies was extremely difficult as the military didn't have dental records since they were destroyed in the crash. After that a separate set of X-rays was taken and was retained separately from the dental records. Years later when DNA technology had advanced enough, DoD had DNA swabs taken. But we were told this medical info and therefore not like our fingerprints. IOW, it wasn't going to be made available like fingerprints. In light of the events of recent years I wonder if that has changed or DoD has changed their stance. But, hey, it wouldn't be the first time DoD promised us something and then developed selective amnesia. Some records such as the personnel jacket are archived (St. Louis?), but I don't know about medical and dental as we were advised to make copies of anything we wanted to have access to just before leaving the service.

If any LE agency is relying on military medical/dental records to solve a crime, they might as well just give up now. As a 17-year spouse, my medical records have been “lost” multiple times. My 14 year old is still listed as ‘Baby Girl Lastname’ in DEERS despite taking her birth certificate in at several posts. There is a service member with my exact full name and occasionally her records are pulled for me. And sometimes the provider wants to argue with me about a surgery and medication I never had. My husband has had proof of certain vaccines but because it wasn’t in the computer he was told ‘oh well, just get another one’. I hope Delphi has better options than DoD records!

 

[Peppery]

As for your last question...like I said, if she was actively communicating with someone on SC at the time of the murders and LE does have her phone (not just access to the cloud) they would have been able to see that, just not the actual pics they sent each other, or the chats unless one of them "saved" it.

RSABBM
it’s been confirmed LE has Libby’s actual phone.

 

[tresir2012]

Ok so on SC, you have a "user name" that you create your account with and can never be changed, but the "profile name" is whatever the receiver has you listed as in their own phone. As a default, when you create your profile you can leave it blank or enter your name. When someone you have friended gets a snap from you, it will show up as the profile name you have entered if you have done that, if not it will show up with your user name. And then on their end, someone you have friended has the additional option of editing your profile name as well, and when they receive a snap from you it will take precedence. So whomever screenshot those pics that LE uses that opened them from Libby is someone that either has her listed as "Liberty German" in their SC contacts, or Libby herself entered her name in her profile as Liberty German, she does seem to use them both.
Twitter: libby1227 (does not appear she was active on this account other than the day she created it in 2014)
Kik: lrlgerman
Snapchat: libbybaby1227
Instagram: Its_A_German_Thing (this account was listed in her twitter profile but no longer exists) my guess is either the family have deleted it or it was an outdated account. Most teens her age use IG quite a bit so I would expect she had an active account at the time of the murders, just not sure it was this one.
Facebook: the family has taken it over as an "in memoriam" page and it uses Liberty now

As for your last question...like I said, if she was actively communicating with someone on SC at the time of the murders and LE does have her phone (not just access to the cloud) they would have been able to see that, just not the actual pics they sent each other, or the chats unless one of them "saved" it. Even if that person suspected LE would see them on her contact list and be suspicious and "deleted" her as a friend, their user name would still show up on her communication list but greyed out (not their profile name, just the user name). BUT the only thing I am not positive about is if someone actually were to have "blocked" Libby after the fact to try and avoid a tie back to her SC, would their user name still show up in grey on her recent communication list...my hunch is no. So if that were the case, that would probably be something they would have needed a warrant from SC to recover, but I do believe all of that is recoverable so LE would surely know that by now, just not right away at the time of the murders. Hope that helps!

TY for that. I do remember seeing her Instagram early on. Would a reset of her phone have affected her SC contacts do you think?

 

[stattlich1]

Deleted

 

[Trebor5591]

Does anyone know if the girls memorial service was open casket or closed casket? What funeral home was involved? I can find nothing on the Internet.

Both girls are buried at IOOF Memorial Gardens, in Pittsburg, Indiana. Can someone nearby take photos of their headstone (if they have one) and upload them?

 

[tresir2012]

Does anyone know if the girls memorial service was open casket or closed casket? What funeral home was involved? I can find nothing on the Internet.

Both girls are buried at IOOF Memorial Gardens, in Pittsburg, Indiana. Can someone nearby take photos of their headstone (if they have one) and upload them?

Both are available online already.
Link to Libby's memorial

Photos of Liberty Rose Lynn “Libby” German - Find...

Link to Abby's memorial

Photos of Abigail J. “Abby” Williams - Find A...

 

[Peppery]

Does anyone know if the girls memorial service was open casket or closed casket? What funeral home was involved? I can find nothing on the Internet.

Both girls are buried at IOOF Memorial Gardens, in Pittsburg, Indiana. Can someone nearby take photos of their headstone (if they have one) and upload them?

Both were open casket @ the high school, and a lot of rumours swirled about their clothing. It was heavily discussed at the time.

 

[busymcmoody]

TY for that. I do remember seeing her Instagram early on. Would a reset of her phone have affected her SC contacts do you think?

No, the contacts are stored online (like IG and FB and Twitter). But she must have had SC installed on the phone she used to take the pics on 2/13.

 

[sunshineray]

Again, you're making claims that are totally unsupported by any evidence.
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That LE's efforts have not yet solved the case does not mean that LE was "led" by anyone, let alone that it was done deliberately. They likely made mistakes. They may have done what many of us did: they may have looked at the video of BG and thought that he looked like a middle-aged man. They may have then discounted the witness who provided the description of a younger perp used in the NBG sketch. Some witnesses may have provided very poor descriptions, either because their memories were faulty or because they were describing the wrong person.
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There's no evidence for your imaginary second perp, and there's no evidence for your imaginary mole.

I think since this is a theory thread people are putting forth hypotheses on what they think happened. I myself think the air of the April 2019 PC was charged with an angst. ISP Carter's words, I thought, spoke of a deception which when found out caused a change of strategy and a starting over. That's my theory.

 

[Evinrude]

I also would like to add that after the girls were found, LE stated that they didn’t believe there was a threat to the Delphi community. That’s a pretty bold statement to make considering there is a killer on the loose, and it leads me to believe that LE believed this to be a targeted attack, and that one, or both, of the girls were the intended victims.

That to me was just shocking. Id still have my town on “lock down”. Maybe there was some info for LE to base that decision, or lack there of, off of.
We all make mistakes, every profession, but why LE hasnt admitted to any mistake is beyond me.
LE did admit a few things they wished they would have changed in the Closs case.
Maybe once this is solved will we get some admissions of things.

 

[sunshineray]

And they said in most recent presser that they were “on to something early on”.

I’m on the fence as to a second person involved. But I totally agree that LE’s comments from early on should not be discounted just because the investigation was new.


MOO

I agree. Sometimes a little bit of a tip that could be crucial gets bypassed when tips come flooding in.

 

[sunshineray]

The majority of murders are targeted, so that may have been their default assumption. They also put billboards all over the country, so they apparently wanted badly to believe that BG wasn't a local. Two-and-a-half years of investigation has changed things.

What do you think their change of investigative strategy was all about?

 

[Ozoner]

I think since this is a theory thread people are putting forth hypotheses on what they think happened. I myself think the air of the April 2019 PC was charged with an angst. ISP Carter's words, I thought, spoke of a deception which when found out caused a change of strategy and a starting over. That's my theory.

Well, you're free to try to read between the lines, so to speak, but Carter never referred to any kind of deliberate deception. All of Carter's PC's seem fraught with emotion.
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If LE had discovered some kind of deliberate deception in the investigation, that would have given them a pretty good bead on who BG is, and they still don't seem to know. They've stated that they have enough evidence to convict if they find BG, so it's reasonable to conclude that they still don't know who he is.

What do you think their change of investigative strategy was all about?

I believe they switched to focusing on younger perps after abandoning the old sketch.

 

[southernswede]

I think the muffled out sound between "Guys" and "Down the hill" sounds like maybe the girls yelling or screaming something? It sounds so distressing to me, which of course it had to have been. Just my thoughts...

 

[margarita25]

Delphi

I just came across this one link that has tons of indychannel article links in it.

Nice, by date too. Cool, thanks.

 

[Ozoner]

I think the muffled out sound between "Guys" and "Down the hill" sounds like maybe the girls yelling or screaming something? It sounds so distressing to me, which of course it had to have been. Just my thoughts...

Those two phrases allegedly came from two different places in the audio; they don't necessarily go together.

 

[southernswede]

Those two phrases allegedly came from two different places in the audio; they don't necessarily go together.

Yes, I understand that's been said, but even if they are two different places in the audio the sounds in between the two phrases to me sound like one of the girls yelling something.