Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[Andreee]

There is a thread here on WS about PE
Found Deceased - IN - Paul Etter wanted for Kidnapping, Tippecanoe County, 22 June 2019

ok thanks i see that thread has been reopened after a 'respite' At any rate, I hope we get to hear about any developments or even if nothing comes of the investigation into a possible connection between Etter and BG. I hope it is being looked at fully by LE.

 

[Andreee]

I’m not sure where it’s coming from, there was no emphasis on public safety in and around Delphi following the murders because that’s not at all the impression I got from following this case early on. I wonder if “no emphasis on safety” is turning into an urban myth. If it is, for what purpose?

We’d have to spend time searching through a lot of the early threads, which I haven’t done but I recall there being several Town Hall meetings as reported by locals, local police canvassing residents - many actions not reported by the media but aimed directly at local residents who were directly impacted. As residents had a right to be alarmed, certainly the personal safety concern would’ve been expressed during these times.

The role of any police force is promoting safety of a community. Therefore it’s highly unlikely any police department is going to make a broad and general announcement the community in which they’re charged with protecting is “unsafe” unless there’s an immediate and active threat that is known. I can’t recall one single news report where a local police department has announced their community is unsafe unless they are actively tracking a known murderer, leading to an imminent arrest. If a suspect hasn’t been identified, every community with unsolved crime would remain unsafe for days, months and in this case years and we’d all be facing a lifetime of hiding in our basements.

What does “safe” or “unsafe” really mean anyway? Is somebody less safe from a 2nd time murderer not yet arrested than becoming the future victim of a 1st time murderer?

There was a list of safety initiatives published earlier as a result of a Delphi workshop. It’s not unique, simply good practises promoting personal safety.

Defense from danger: Chicago-based self-defense group holds workshop in Delphi
The One Light Self-Defense Team offered numerous tips during self-defense training Sunday in Delphi. Here are a few of them.

General safety

•Have a strong appearance, which means head up and eyes forward.

•Appear confident, even in an unknown location.

•Have your cellular phone charged and easily accessible.

•If you carry a weapon, make sure you are properly trained in how to use it, including pepper spray.

•Avoid dark and secluded places, and try not to walk alone, especially at night.

Parking lot and car safety

•Get into your vehicle quickly and lock all the doors.

•Avoid distractions that keep you outside the vehicle for a length of time.

•Don’t wander the parking lot looking for your parked car. Take a picture if needed and remind yourself of the location before you exit the store.

•Try to walk toward the middle of the aisle and in a well-lit location.

Trail safety

•Be aware of your surroundings.

• After you pass someone else, don’t assume you’re safe until there is enough distance between the two of you.

•Go completely around, not between, other runners or walkers.

I'm sure we can all think of other safety rules, especially for trail walking, to guard against both human and animal predators! I've been following this case so much that I just don't feel comfortable going alone for hike, unless there are plenty of people around!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Quoted bbm
I am going to respectfully disagree with this part of your post.

Her written comments within the chat to clarify this indicate the opposite.

JMO

ok - I'll take your word for it. Thx for the clarity.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Quoted bbm
I am going to respectfully disagree with this part of your post.

Her written comments within the chat to clarify this indicate the opposite.

JMO

My amateur opinion is that Kelsi was calling BG out for being weak—which he obviously is. He attacked children, likely because deep down he knows he is weak and cowardly. He probably holds resentment toward women, but wouldn’t attack a grown woman because he is too AFRAID. Girls who are in their preteen/early teen years are likely his target because he views them as both young enough to control without much effort on his part, and old enough to manifest the qualities he despises in adult women.

I think what Kelsi meant was that BG attacks those he perceives as weak, and she has proven herself to be a fighter.

 

[PaulaDC]

Good questions.

I understand the phone was found at the CS, and judging by a recent interview involving a LEO from ISP the phone was on the ground. No indication was given as to what condition the phone was in, something I've wondered about.

JMO

The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force was involved in that so I'm assuming the phone was in not the best shape. Moo

 

[Charlot123]

Homosexual encounter by a prominent public figure in the woods or something even more nefarious. There I said it. I’ve also pondered that maybe the staging of both girls was in a non heterosexual manner rather than a religious one. Sorry if it offends anyone because that’s not the intention: i want the truth and I don’t discount the fact that this BG is capable of most anything. MOO

Well, it would explain the possible motive, and the sudden emergence of YBG.

I discarded these bizarre rumors about“the woods” encounters, and the public figure (such an idiot, after all? no money for a motel?).

However, given the rural place, there is potential danger of the scandal to consider, especially if one of the men was much younger.

I imagine Libby as an open-minded child of the XXI century, so I don’t think she’d be too judgmental per se, but the age of the younger man could be the factor.

So at the 2019 PC, YBG was called “responsible” for the murders. Could he have been the younger man?Not the killer, but somehow “marginally” participating, and now the police is trying to use the remorse factor, because morally, OBG is past any hope.

But the young one is not that remorseful, and I think there is a lot of fear and anger associated with his situation.

This post in no way reflects my own views and attitudes, it is merely one of the versions. Also - I think YBG is not who people think he is, but he hides in plain sight way better than OBG; he probably cried at the funerals.

 

[Charlot123]

You don't think she hasn't been questioned by LE multiple times? But a lie detector test? She is not a suspect. There is no indications that she wasn't completely cooperative and that she isn't committed to helping find out who killed her sister.

As far as them being in contact with somebody, it's been three years - They have Libby's phone, that was the first place that they started looking. If there was actual contact they would've found it by now. Random crimes of opportunity do happen.

I honestly don’t believe that any of the families is minimally responsible. I have very different opinion about different members, and likely, they are not telling us the full story, but they are clearly victims of the crime, and not the perpetrators.

 

[Ozoner]

I agree in the sense that things don't add up.
They had a suspect early on.. Carter said so..his wording may have been more to the effect that "We were looking at someone, we might have had something early on." (Absolutely NOT verbatim... but captures the essence of it)
They were led in the WRONG direction ..and someone within a circle close to the community knows it.
They ran in a circle for 2 years.. BUT..something changed that.
Something caused the press conference 13 months ago with change of sketch and a bit of new information.
You are right, something isn't adding up..
and someone dropped the ball..
But I believe that as far as the families are concerned..
Every.
Single. One.
Is a victim.
AMOO JMO MOO

No, you're butchering his wording. He said that they were "onto something" early on, not someone. His comments were too vague for anyone to jump to the conclusion that they had a suspect.

 

[cujenn81]

As promised, I've compiled a list of direct quotes made by law enforcement.
(All quotes have been pulled from articles posted in the case media thread.)

Indiana State Police - Peru District 16 - Press Release
Entered by Indiana State Police Peru District 16 – Peru, IN
Sunday, February 19th, 2017 - 1:14 pm EST

At approximately 12:15 pm on February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail J. Williams, 13, and Liberty Rose Lynn German, 14, both from Delphi, IN were found in a wooded area near the Delphi Historic Trail, east of Delphi, IN, in Carroll County.

Since Wednesday February 15th, law enforcement officers have distributed a photo of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail. The photo appears to depict a white male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie. During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photo, is suspected of having participated in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

Fox59 News Timeline

February 15, 2017

10:00 am
Riley advises parents to keep a close eye on their children and monitor their whereabouts.

3:00 pm
Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department say they don’t believe there’s any immediate danger to the community.

July 17, 2017

Indiana State Police released the first sketch of the murder suspect.

February 21, 2017

In a news interview, Sgt. Tony Slocum is explicitly asked if the man is wearing a hat or we are seeing the man’s hair. He replied that it appears to him to be a hoodie.

UPDATE: Police say photo of suspect in Delphi homicides came from teen’s phone; audio released of man’s voice

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby as reported by Fox59
February 23, 2017

The investigation started first on the local level. Police have talked to “a number of individuals” so far as they search for a suspect.

“We have gone through a number of individuals at this point. This is basically a process of elimination in this situation. In relation to the investigation, we start locally and then expand out.”

He said there were “several pieces to this huge puzzle” and said investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked”.

“Every day we evaluate what we have and what we feel like would be beneficial for folks to know. Obviously, when this is all said and done, we’re going to end up in a court of law with this situation. For us to reveal basically everything we have—and a lot of folks understand this—it would be detrimental to reveal a lot of information.”

February 25, 2017

Nerissa Knight from Crime Watch Daily reports that Indiana State Police Sgt. Slocum said, “Investigators believe the suspect was also wearing a brown fanny pack around his waist”.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1493647450660042

February 28, 2017

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby clears up misconceptions and says he has never confirmed DNA evidence was recovered in this case and said the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office is still taking the lead in this investigation.

Carroll Co. Sheriff clears up misconceptions on Delphi double homicide - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

March 8, 2017

Indiana State Police Sgt. John Perrine says police are testing evidence found at the scene hoping it contains the suspect’s DNA.

https://www.wthr.com/article/please-we-need-your-help-libby-germans-grandfather-speaks

March 13, 2017

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter tells Fox59: “To say we’ve identified a single individual would not be accurate, but we have identified several people of interest.”

Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation

August 14, 2017

State police say more audio from Libby German’s phone was played for victims’ families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about “stuff girls talk about”, but they also mention the man.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

Detective Holeman Interview:

There’s, I think, alleged a lot of evidence, but really we have very little evidence in this case. So, we’re working with what we have. We don’t have a lot, but we have more than—uhh—more than enough to make a case, but we’re just not getting that break yet. We’re still getting closer every day. We’re eliminating. We’re getting a lot on people that didn’t do it and we eliminate those daily.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

February 9, 2018

Police continue to look for a white male between 5’6” and 5’10”, weighting 180 to 200 pounds with reddish brown hair.

Delphi double homicides: 'Horrible to live like this,' a year after Abby and Libby were killed

February 10, 2018

Detective Holeman:

The question is: Do we have DNA? Yea, we have DNA. We’re just still working on determining what kind of DNA. Is it the victims? Is it the known family members or is it our suspect?

He said detectives test and compare the DNA almost daily, hoping it leads them to the killer.

We’re still working on that. We can’t say, ‘ Do we have the suspect’s DNA or don’t we?’ We have plenty of DNA, and we have plenty of testing to do, and it takes a lot of time.

https://www.wlfi.com/content/archiv...s-after-Delphi-double-homicide-473447953.html

February 14, 2018 – PRESS CONFERENCE

Reporter: Can you tell us more about this suspect? Do you believe he was a transient, is he in the state, is he anywhere in this country?

Supt. Carter: Billion dollar question. I don’t know.


SKETCH ONE Q&A – JULY 18, 2017

Q: How did you have an artist develop this sketch and is the sketch made with the help of an eyewitness or eyewitnesses, or was it made solely from the other picture we have seen?

A: Basically, I can’t really answer that question completely. I can tell you that it came from the investigators itself, from officers looking into things, to tips and leads that have come in, that people have come forward, we got information from there, and the composite was put together with that information.

Q: Why was the sketch released just today? Did you just get it finished, have other people seen this, including the family, now just the right time to release it?

A: This picture was released at this time because we felt it needed to come out, the information needs to be put forward, and we wanted to get it out there so people can look at it. And, it has, it has taken a while to get this thing put together and that’s why it’s taken so long to get the picture out.

Q: How confident are you that this is accurate?

A: We’re pretty confident. The information was received, with that information we’ve been able to put that together. Again, this thing wasn’t drawn overnight. We’ve been working with this picture, and with the suspects we, excuse me, I mean the witnesses that we have.

Q: Well, when you say witnesses, so multiple people that helped you out?

A: There were people that were able to help us out with this, yes.

Q: Who made the sketch?

A: It’s basically just been an accumulation of all the departments that have come together, and we have put this composite together.

Q: In the release, you talk about not to focus on the hat. That it may not be accurate. Can you talk a little about that?

A: As you can see, in the original picture below, it appears that he’s got a hat on and it’s got the flaps down and kind of down over the face. We want to make sure you focus on the picture. We want to make sure the face is what you are looking at and not worry about the hat, even though the hat is not quite the same as in the picture. We want the facial features… is what we want you to look at.

Q: In the release you mentioned some things exactly, such as hair color. Can you talk about this at this time?

A: Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was, the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh—the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious—the person was very obviously not blue eyes but they did mention that they were not clear on what color they were.

Q: So, there are people out there who are sure that they saw this guy walking around this day and they helped you out, is that it?

A: Pretty much that’s what it is, yes.

Q: Did those people come forward right away or did it take a little time for those people to come forward?

A: It’s been a while. It took a little bit. People are scared. They are afraid to be recognized by the subject, so it just takes a while for these things to happen.

Q: Just to be clear. Do you know this man’s identity and you are not releasing it or you don’t know this guy’s identity?

A: We want to know who he is.


TV INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield
February 16, 2020
Sgt. Kim Riley with Indiana State Police (via telephone)

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield Transcript

Casarez: I want to talk to you about the picture that has been circulating of a man that you want to talk with. This is the walking trail, the Delphi historic trail, and this is the Monon High Bridge, you believe. Do you believe that he lives in Delphi, which is about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis?

Riley: We have—we’re not sure where the subject may be from or where he lives.

Casarez: The photograph that is the Snapchat photo that is tragically taken by one of the girls, this was taken at approximately what time? What is the timestamp on the photo?

Riley: Well, because it’s a Snapchat, there is no timestamp on it, so we’re not sure of the exact time. We know it was after the time that they were let off. But the exact time, we do not have that.

Casarez: Now, there’s a lot of things going on social media that nestled in the foliage there may be a human being that is lurking. Have your forensic investigators looked at that photograph to determine if there is someone amongst the branches behind her?

Riley: We have looked at it. We’ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture – we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there’s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you’ll notice that there’s actually three poles there to keep cars from being – trying to drive across the bridge. So that’s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks. And the part where you see the trees, we’ve blown that up, and we have no been able to significantly say that’s a person. As a matter of fact, we’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s just a shadow, is all that is.

Casarez: Was the cause of death obvious?

Riley: I’m not—I’m not going to comment on that either, at this time. We don’t want to give any information out that somebody (inaudible) people will start reading information and they come in and start saying that this and that, that they were involved in the case because they know what happened. We don’t want that kind of information coming forward. So we’re going to keep that quiet.

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield
February 21, 2017
Sgt. Tony Slocum with Indiana State Police (via telephone)

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield Transcript 2/21/17

Casarez: Do you believe that these young girls at all could have been innocently communicating with someone who may have even not led to his real identity, to meet that person at this trail for a couple of hours?

Slocum: Well, anything’s possible, but the evidence we have thus far has not revealed that to be true. Unfortunately, these young ladies were just doing what teenage girls do. They were—they were enjoying a beautiful day, on a beautiful trail, in a beautiful part of Indiana and these crimes occurred.

Transcript of April 22, 2019 Press Conference
(transcribed by me)

We are seeking the public’s help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS/DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi, that was abandoned on the east side of the county road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway, between the hours of noon and five on February 14th 2017. If you were parked there, or know who was parked there, please contact the officers at the command post at the Delphi city building.

We’re releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is not two different people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully.

We’re also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the—watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember: he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties.

During the course of this investigation, we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary… as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls.

We also believe this person is from Delphi, currently, or has previously lived here. Visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than his true age.

Directly to the killer who may be in this room:

We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears, to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And, one day, you will.

The question to you—what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children. Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least, they know because of how different you are since the murders.

We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to two children, and I recently watched a movie called The Shack. And there’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death, and about eternity.

To the murderer:
I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left, and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not… IS NOT what they are experiencing today.

To the family—I hope that you all will give them some time because we’re going to be asking that there’s no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks. And, I hope you understand why. The family found out about this—about this information—this morning. I just want the family to know that when I take my last break on this earth, I’ll be thinking of them.

There’s going to be a tremendous amount of questions. I know that, I know that. Never in my career have I stood in front of something like this. Please, be patient with us. Please. Uh, we’re just beginning. We are just now beginning. And, I can tell you on behalf of the sheriff and the police chief, and so many other partners that have stood with us over this period of time, that we will NOT stop.

I just unveiled the person that we believe is responsible for the murder of these two little girls. So, I invite media to take a look at that now. We’re also going to show you a video, not previously released, that the superintendent spoke to, and also the audio that’s additional to what has been previously released. There’s only a slight change in it. So, give Sgt. Riley just a second as he gets that up and ready.

Audio: “Guys. (Inaudible/2 Second Pause) Down the hill.”

Stand by for the video, please. There is no sound to the video.

As the superintendent mentioned, he is on the railway bridge. You have to take, uh, different steps to get to it. This information, later this afternoon, will be on the state police website. For the community that’s here, we have 100 copies of the news release. If you put in that URL, you’ll be able to get to that site to play it. And we also have that same release for you in the media, and the rest of the state will get that release in about 15 minutes. So, we appreciate those of you that came here. This concludes our announcement. Thank you for time and patience.

April 23, 2019

ISP clarify points after news conference

- a car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5 pm on February 13, 2017; they are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time

- the location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi IN (the building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant)

https://www.abc57.com/news/indiana-...clarification-points-on-delphi-murder-suspect

April 24, 2019


The sketch artist with ISP told the Indianapolis Star the new sketch was drawn February 17, 2017. The images was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported, and the sketch is a “ballpark estimation of what the person looks like”.

ISP said these points are important to keep in mind about the two sketches:

- they are not the same person
- the person depicted in the original sketch is not presently a person of interest
- the new sketch is representative of the face of the person captured in the video
- the person in the new sketch is described as having a youthful appearance but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
- the person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard, or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

https://fox59.com/news/newly-released-sketch-of-delphi-murder-suspect-was-drawn-in-2017-source-says/

May 16, 2019

Doug Carter: The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand. I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/delphi/isp-were-one-tip-away-from-solving-delphi-murders

 

[Deleted member 102539]

rsbm for space

May 16, 2019

Doug Carter: The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand. I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

Thank you for your huge and great work!!

 

[California Sunset]

No, it is just my opinion. There is something not matching together in this story. Even in a his guy, BG. I do believe that Libby somehow got to know some private, damning information. Nothing else could explain the anger towards her.

I hadn't been a member here or knew much about this case, but then I saw a YouTube video that I thought might help out here, and I wanted to mention it to you. But as I go about life, I think of various aspects and possibilities of this, and if this has already been brought up, my apologies. I haven't been a member here long, only a month, I haven't seen most of what you have gone through, written and considered. I've only been in this thread.
I don't know anything about either of these girls, so please forgive my comments, they aren't meant to offend, I'm just throwing different suggestions out there.
I'm under the impression most of you believe the killer is an adult. Not a tall teenage boy, is that correct? Several of you talk about various jobs the person might hold. You say the killer had a lot of anger towards Libby. (I don't know where you get this, so if this isn't a generally considered possibility, my apologies).
If this killer is a reasonably intelligent adult, what could Libby know about him to cause him to be angry enough to kill her and Abby? Was this 'anger in the moment' or anger as in he's allowed his anger to fester and grow? I would think it would have to be some kind of major crime for him to be willing to kill two innocent young girls. Has anyone really thought about what she could 'have on the guy' to drive him to kill not just her but Abby, too? Are they supposed to have known this guy's name, or did Libby see or hear something the guy did, or did the killer just think that? Did he do something to Libby, or to someone she knows? (Did Libby or Abby babysit?) Could he have sexually assaulted someone and she knew about it? Could he have made sexual advances to someone underage and he believed she saw/heard/was aware of it?

Could these murders be related to some sort of sexual advances the killer made to an underage female or could he even have molested a young child the girls may have known?

Several years ago, I talked to various friends on AOL or AIM IMs, and I accidently found someone (an adult male) I knew in chat rooms there while I was waiting for a friend to log on. (He didn't know who I was and he hit on me, so I talked to him to see where he planned to take the chat. He was married to someone I knew). He was having explicit conversations in instant messages and in emails. I did a little investigating, and even though a few of his 'chat partners' claimed to be over 18, I discovered they were no more than 12 or 13. I was angry at the position the girls put themselves in. They could easily have gotten into a really precarious situation. I wished I could have called up their mothers. These ones were lying about their ages, (I read some of the things and emails), but so was the guy. He was claiming to be younger than he was, oh, and not married. I've seen some of the videos where the men believe they're going to meet a 13 year old or so and it's an undercover cop. I think those guys deserve to get caught.
I was an adult, and I had other training besides being an investigator, before the internet. But the training always helps.

Could someone Libby knew have had personal knowledge of some adult male being involved with an underage female and the killer was worried about his 'family life' being in jeopardy?

Or could this guy have already accidentally or purposely killed someone else and believed Libby or Abby could place him at that crime scene.
Also, you would know better than me, but what crimes occurred in the several months prior to these murders that BG could have had something to do with?
As another thought, is there a sex trafficking problem in Indiana? Child ?
What about drugs? A drug ring in the Delphi area?

 

[California Sunset]

Drugs? Arson?

think of major felonies, federal crimes. Murder, sexual assault, things that would carry long prison terms or worse. Things that would cause major disruption in family or loss of employment.

 

[TTF14]

I discarded these bizarre rumors about“the woods” encounters, and the public figure (such an idiot, after all? no money for a motel?).

Men meet for sex outside all.the.time. I don't think income has anything to do with it at all.....they'll still do it. Throw in an expectedly warm day when they might not have had a chance to do that in a while? Definitely a plausible theory in my opinion. Always has been.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't recall them asserting that the public was safe. I do recall them issuing the standard deflections that are designed to make sure panic doesn't consume the community. I do remember LE saying, when asking for tips, "the next time it could be your mother or sister...or father or brother." If a "next time" is thought to be at all probable to LE, I can't think that the public is safe.

They said the opposite IMO. Know what your kids are up to IIRC.

 

[HOPE770145]

The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force was involved in that so I'm assuming the phone was in not the best shape. Moo

I hadn't been a member here or knew much about this case, but then I saw a YouTube video that I thought might help out here, and I wanted to mention it to you. But as I go about life, I think of various aspects and possibilities of this, and if this has already been brought up, my apologies. I haven't been a member here long, only a month, I haven't seen most of what you have gone through, written and considered. I've only been in this thread.
I don't know anything about either of these girls, so please forgive my comments, they aren't meant to offend, I'm just throwing different suggestions out there.
I'm under the impression most of you believe the killer is an adult. Not a tall teenage boy, is that correct? Several of you talk about various jobs the person might hold. You say the killer had a lot of anger towards Libby. (I don't know where you get this, so if this isn't a generally considered possibility, my apologies).
If this killer is a reasonably intelligent adult, what could Libby know about him to cause him to be angry enough to kill her and Abby? Was this 'anger in the moment' or anger as in he's allowed his anger to fester and grow? I would think it would have to be some kind of major crime for him to be willing to kill two innocent young girls. Has anyone really thought about what she could 'have on the guy' to drive him to kill not just her but Abby, too? Are they supposed to have known this guy's name, or did Libby see or hear something the guy did, or did the killer just think that? Did he do something to Libby, or to someone she knows? (Did Libby or Abby babysit?) Could he have sexually assaulted someone and she knew about it? Could he have made sexual advances to someone underage and he believed she saw/heard/was aware of it?

Could these murders be related to some sort of sexual advances the killer made to an underage female or could he even have molested a young child the girls may have known?

Several years ago, I talked to various friends on AOL or AIM IMs, and I accidently found someone (an adult male) I knew in chat rooms there while I was waiting for a friend to log on. (He didn't know who I was and he hit on me, so I talked to him to see where he planned to take the chat. He was married to someone I knew). He was having explicit conversations in instant messages and in emails. I did a little investigating, and even though a few of his 'chat partners' claimed to be over 18, I discovered they were no more than 12 or 13. I was angry at the position the girls put themselves in. They could easily have gotten into a really precarious situation. I wished I could have called up their mothers. These ones were lying about their ages, (I read some of the things and emails), but so was the guy. He was claiming to be younger than he was, oh, and not married. I've seen some of the videos where the men believe they're going to meet a 13 year old or so and it's an undercover cop. I think those guys deserve to get caught.
I was an adult, and I had other training besides being an investigator, before the internet. But the training always helps.

Could someone Libby knew have had personal knowledge of some adult male being involved with an underage female and the killer was worried about his 'family life' being in jeopardy?

Or could this guy have already accidentally or purposely killed someone else and believed Libby or Abby could place him at that crime scene.
Also, you would know better than me, but what crimes occurred in the several months prior to these murders that BG could have had something to do with?
As another thought, is there a sex trafficking problem in Indiana? Child ?
What about drugs? A drug ring in the Delphi area?

of course, this is more likely than any other scenario in my view, however, LE had the opportunity to take the computers and cell phones investigate with the FBI they should have all this info already shouldn't they..I would think so, I have said this before I don't believe this was a random attack but indeed one of opportunity not to get back at the girls but to rather continue the sick spree this SK is committing and will most likely do so again, I have said this before that I believe the best way to solve this is to go back and re do everything again with new detectives and LE from another state entirely, hand it over to others, something is not lining up here, someone needs to do something before this person strikes again, and it looks to me like the fbi should be involved ad take over completely since this is about safety

 

[HOPE770145]

The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force was involved in that so I'm assuming the phone was in not the best shape. Moo

I hadn't been a member here or knew much about this case, but then I saw a YouTube video that I thought might help out here, and I wanted to mention it to you. But as I go about life, I think of various aspects and possibilities of this, and if this has already been brought up, my apologies. I haven't been a member here long, only a month, I haven't seen most of what you have gone through, written and considered. I've only been in this thread.
I don't know anything about either of these girls, so please forgive my comments, they aren't meant to offend, I'm just throwing different suggestions out there.
I'm under the impression most of you believe the killer is an adult. Not a tall teenage boy, is that correct? Several of you talk about various jobs the person might hold. You say the killer had a lot of anger towards Libby. (I don't know where you get this, so if this isn't a generally considered possibility, my apologies).
If this killer is a reasonably intelligent adult, what could Libby know about him to cause him to be angry enough to kill her and Abby? Was this 'anger in the moment' or anger as in he's allowed his anger to fester and grow? I would think it would have to be some kind of major crime for him to be willing to kill two innocent young girls. Has anyone really thought about what she could 'have on the guy' to drive him to kill not just her but Abby, too? Are they supposed to have known this guy's name, or did Libby see or hear something the guy did, or did the killer just think that? Did he do something to Libby, or to someone she knows? (Did Libby or Abby babysit?) Could he have sexually assaulted someone and she knew about it? Could he have made sexual advances to someone underage and he believed she saw/heard/was aware of it?

Could these murders be related to some sort of sexual advances the killer made to an underage female or could he even have molested a young child the girls may have known?

Several years ago, I talked to various friends on AOL or AIM IMs, and I accidently found someone (an adult male) I knew in chat rooms there while I was waiting for a friend to log on. (He didn't know who I was and he hit on me, so I talked to him to see where he planned to take the chat. He was married to someone I knew). He was having explicit conversations in instant messages and in emails. I did a little investigating, and even though a few of his 'chat partners' claimed to be over 18, I discovered they were no more than 12 or 13. I was angry at the position the girls put themselves in. They could easily have gotten into a really precarious situation. I wished I could have called up their mothers. These ones were lying about their ages, (I read some of the things and emails), but so was the guy. He was claiming to be younger than he was, oh, and not married. I've seen some of the videos where the men believe they're going to meet a 13 year old or so and it's an undercover cop. I think those guys deserve to get caught.
I was an adult, and I had other training besides being an investigator, before the internet. But the training always helps.

Could someone Libby knew have had personal knowledge of some adult male being involved with an underage female and the killer was worried about his 'family life' being in jeopardy?

Or could this guy have already accidentally or purposely killed someone else and believed Libby or Abby could place him at that crime scene.
Also, you would know better than me, but what crimes occurred in the several months prior to these murders that BG could have had something to do with?
As another thought, is there a sex trafficking problem in Indiana? Child ?
What about drugs? A drug ring in the Delphi area?

of course, this is more likely than any other scenario in my view, however, LE had the opportunity to take the computers and cell phones investigate with the FBI they should have all this info already shouldn't they..I would think so, I have said this before I don't believe this was a random attack but indeed one of opportunity not to get back at the girls but to rather continue the sick spree this SK is committing and will most likely do so again, I have said this before that I believe the best way to solve this is to go back and re do everything again with new detectives and LE from another state entirely, hand it over to others, something is not lining up here, someone needs to do something before this person strikes again, and it looks to me like the fbi should be involved ad take over completely since this is about safety. I believe it was mentioned one girl was hurt more than the other but that mayjust be a rumour there is no proof that we know of, if this were true it could be that L was protecting A and the POI attacked her released anger whatever, but this is sidetracking because we don't have the details of the crime scene nor will we ever, its best to discuss what we do know, what we know isthat IMO they messed up this investigation and have to go back redo everything and hand it over to someone else. TBH I don't trust anyone in that town currently to head this investigation. IMHO

 

[HOPE770145]

They said the opposite IMO. Know what your kids are up to IIRC.

POI are always online hunting for kids, wherever kids have access to programs to chat or interact with others that is an opportunity to do this and groom them then meet up with them. My daughter used to be on ROBLOX and I would pull up a chair beside her, she would just stare at me, I knew that she was up to something and there was more than likely pimps of sex trafficking on these sites trying to groom these kids or girls into the sex trade, then bully and threaten them if they tell or leave they can get pics of them and blackmail them. Better to not allow this kind of communication and if you do educate your kids on POI online and sex trafficking. My daughter grew out of Roblox but I could see how that and other programs like that, that are popular could create issues with safety. Parents should always be present when kids are on the internet and if they cant be certain programs should not be used. These predators are professionals when it comes to luring and grooming kids especially online, as they pretend they are kids themselves.

 

[Area52]

They have a voice recording of the POI plus partial fingerprints and DNA plus video. Why is this not solved? Somethings not adding up IMO

Where was it stated that they have partial fingerprints?? I don't recall reading that . Can you clarify the source?

 

[pearl]

Where was it stated that they have partial fingerprints?? I don't recall reading that . Can you clarify the source?

There is a newspaper article posted upthread several pages back.

 

[Shancydrew]

Hello, First post ever so please bear with me. I signed up for WS a couple of years ago and then life got busy. I recently listened to the Down the Hill podcast and it has made this case a bit of an obsession again so I decided to come on here and read about other opinions and theories. I have been doing my best to catch up on this thread and have found the info provided as well as your ideas and theories very interesting. I have a couple of opinions of my own I wanted the share and see if these have come up before...
1) I have seen mention that Libby took the brunt of the attack. I wonder if Abby was BG's intended target and Libby was fighting like hell to save her from what was going to happen.
2) Since I first heard the 2nd release of the voice recording with "Guys" added 2 things have stuck with me. First is that "Guys" is a term that would often be used by someone you know. It is very informal if you will. Second is that there is something in the tone when he says, "Guys" that has always given me the impression that perhaps the girls were trying to figure out a way out of the situation or whispering to each other and he was getting them back on track with his plan sort of like, "Guys...c'mon". I know it is one word and it is difficult to explain exactly what I mean but it has always struck me that way.
Both are just my opinion.
Anyway, thanks for reading. I hope I did this right.