Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[flashy09]

Some of my thoughts. I think BG came to the trails that day prepared to kill if the opportunity arose, a predatory lurker. I would say familiarity with the trails is a given. I do not think a possible earlier encounter that did not end well in no way should be interpreted as the girls contributing in any way to their deaths. I have myself been in the presence of people whose behavior is so far out of the normal range that it brought a gut reaction to me. Some people just emit bad vibes. This could have happened thus Libby videoing him. I think he had them targeted by the time they reached the bridge. Whether he had targeted them before the impromptu bridge trip I am beginning to change my thoughts. I now think there is a possible connection between the phone reset and the murder. I just think he had to be physically near them when Libby took Abby's picture on the bridge. I've even wondered if he could have somehow been on the bridge's understructure. It just seems too short a timespan for Libby's picture which does not show him and then his approach of the girls at the end of the bridge.

I think he was in the woods at the far end of the bridge and walked past them enough to check that nobody was coming the other way or observing from the trail and then he turned around and trapped them.

 

[stattlich1]

This video is just one of the things that led me to the 2 perp theory.

They are discussing the AW/LG case, then bump to the Flora case, then they go right back to speaking of the AW/LG case, when, at approximately 11:15 it is mentioned 'either one of these individuals, or a group that might be involved in this'....'there are multiple ways to resolve this in your mind and your heart and your soul'....'and I hope you'll do the right thing today'. (similar wording used in previous press conferences relative to the AW/LG case, directed to one's conscience).

There is even reference to the softball diamond being built 'for those girls'..... throwing more light on the fact they are clearly speaking of the AW/LG case.

I believe in this video, DC is pleading to one of the perps to come forward, to implicate the other, so they can nail him.

I also, and this is MOO, see a great deal of discomfort in all three of these men when the aforementioned statements are being made, and a quick turn to another topic to boot.

 

[Thelastleg]

Thanks. Appreciate that. Do you think LE know his movements straight after he commited the crime?
I just think it can be surprising sometimes which memories you can invoke by producing a reconstruction.
If for instance they think the perpetrator crossed the Freedom bridge during his escape then that may jog the memory of someone travelling underneath it. Maybe they have evidence of him crossing a field a distance away from the trails. That may jog another memory. The smallest detail can sometimes have huge impacts.
I get that they are trying to preserve info for the good of the possible case but we are now 3+ years down the line. This thing needs a change of tact imo.

I agree that a reconstruction might be a good thing. Crimewatch UK ran from late 1980's until 2017. They managed to re-enact crimes without giving away vital evidence. In the case of Jamie Bulger, the two boys who abducted him were identified by viewers. I could name many more cases that had a good outcome. They have also had witnesses and relatives of the deceased appeal for information on the show and it led to further information that they were involved. In another case Tracie Andrews clutched the hand of her boyfriend's mother and appealed for witnesses in the stabbing of her boyfriend. She said that it was a road rage incident. However it was proven, due to tips received, she had in fact murdered him herself. So I don't think there is anything to lose in having witnesses speak at a press conference.

 

[HOPE770145]

I did not mean to offend anyone. I did not mean 'all doctors' or 'all surgeons', I was referring to one in particular who definitely had issues and several others I learned about after I had the discussion with my friend. The total surgeons/doctors under discussion/I later learned about was less than 25 doctors. How many doctors are in this country? I don't even know a doctor in Indiana. But, not all doctors are good. I read about them. No profession consists only of wonderful people. Sorry, but IMO, that's the truth.
I do not generalize, saying 'all people all the time' or 'no one any of the time' or all doctors' or 'all pediatricians'.
I stick to the 'some people some of the time, all people some of the time, none of the people some of the time' but no, not ever all of the people all of the time or none of the people none of the time.
There is one group I'm more likely to generalize and say most of them are horrid, but I don't intend to mention them here.
Have I thoroughly confused everyone/anyone and am I in trouble for this?

I still believe the killer(s) could have come from any profession, IMHO, based on the information available to me. They could have come from no profession. They could have switched jobs and done a variety of things. I have no idea. I've said before, most of you here know more about this than I do. I'm new. We've been on WS a month or less. I'd heard of the murders, superficially, and didn't even realize they were in Indiana when we watched someone's livestream in Delphi. We originally came here only to let you know about the video, then we learned there are at least 100 videos on Libby/Abby/Delphi/Delphi murders.

what makes you think it was a dr because I thought about that at first, perhaps the fact they may have killed them fast? or someone that worked at a slaughterhouse with animals or farm

 

[HOPE770145]

This video is just one of the things that led me to the 2 perp theory.

They are discussing the AW/LG case, then bump to the Flora case, then they go right back to speaking of the AW/LG case, when, at approximately 11:15 it is mentioned 'either one of these individuals, or a group that might be involved in this'....'there are multiple ways to resolve this in your mind and your heart and your soul'....'and I hope you'll do the right thing today'. (similar wording used in previous press conferences relative to the AW/LG case, directed to one's conscience).

There is even reference to the softball diamond being built 'for those girls'..... throwing more light on the fact they are clearly speaking of the AW/LG case.

I believe in this video, DC is pleading to one of the perps to come forward, to implicate the other, so they can nail him.

I also, and this is MOO, see a great deal of discomfort in all three of these men when the aforementioned statements are being made, and a quick turn to another topic to boot.

are there any sick pathetic vile, sex clubs in Delphi that use prostitutes or weird swinger clubs? clubs where professionals seek younger girls ? judges or officers or lawyers or professionals? if there are I would haul them in for questioning

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks. Appreciate that. Do you think LE know his movements straight after he commited the crime?
I just think it can be surprising sometimes which memories you can invoke by producing a reconstruction.
If for instance they think the perpetrator crossed the Freedom bridge during his escape then that may jog the memory of someone travelling underneath it. Maybe they have evidence of him crossing a field a distance away from the trails. That may jog another memory. The smallest detail can sometimes have huge impacts.
I get that they are trying to preserve info for the good of the possible case but we are now 3+ years down the line. This thing needs a change of tact imo.

I know what you’re saying. Aside from Libby’s video and audio, perhaps one of the obstacles in this case has proven to be reliance on people’s memories. By that I’m thinking of the “change in direction” from sketch #1 to sketch #2, apparently not of the same man. What that suggests is a difficulty for LE in determining the difference between sightings of the suspect who was also the man on the bridge, or possibly just a man who was out and about who a witness didn’t recognize. Memories are also well known to not always accurate days, weeks, most especially years later.

So is LE 100% certain where and what time this person entered and exited the trail system on Feb 13th, 2017? By foot, by car, what type of vehicle? While they may have a theory, no definitive information has been released. If they have a theory, good chance once again it’s reliant on witness memory however there was no eye witness to the murder. Who is the man on the bridge?

 

[MistyWaters]

are there any sick pathetic vile, sex clubs in Delphi that use prostitutes or weird swinger clubs? clubs where professionals seek younger girls ? judges or officers or lawyers or professionals? if there are I would haul them in for questioning

Just wondering, are you aware the population of Delphi is less than 3000?

 

[SkipperKey3]

Some of my thoughts. I think BG came to the trails that day prepared to kill if the opportunity arose, a predatory lurker. I would say familiarity with the trails is a given. I do not think a possible earlier encounter that did not end well in no way should be interpreted as the girls contributing in any way to their deaths. I have myself been in the presence of people whose behavior is so far out of the normal range that it brought a gut reaction to me. Some people just emit bad vibes. This could have happened thus Libby videoing him. I think he had them targeted by the time they reached the bridge. Whether he had targeted them before the impromptu bridge trip I am beginning to change my thoughts. I now think there is a possible connection between the phone reset and the murder. I just think he had to be physically near them when Libby took Abby's picture on the bridge. I've even wondered if he could have somehow been on the bridge's understructure. It just seems too short a timespan for Libby's picture which does not show him and then his approach of the girls at the end of the bridge.

I don't know that he came to the trails "prepared to kill", although he obviously wasn't adverse to it either. I think he has a short fuse, and something the girls did or said - maybe something as simple as dismissing him or not giving him the time of day when he tried to talk to them - just sent him over the edge. Whether his intent when he told them to go down the hill was to kill them or if it just got out of hand, it's hard to say, but at that point I'd guess that he was already entertaining the idea, even if only as a possibility.

 

[HOPE770145]

Just wondering, are you aware the population of Delphi is less than 3000?

I don't know that he came to the trails "prepared to kill", although he obviously wasn't adverse to it either. I think he has a short fuse, and something the girls did or said - maybe something as simple as dismissing him or not giving him the time of day when he tried to talk to them - just sent him over the edge. Whether his intent when he told them to go down the hill was to kill them or if it just got out of hand, it's hard to say, but at that point I'd guess that he was already entertaining the idea, even if only as a possibility.

Had the girls gone down the hill off the bridge before? was there something there to see? I dont know the area so dont know what it looks like down the hill off the bridge, to me sounds like he was directing them to something he wanted to show them.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Yes and it would have to be to either hear the horror or the innocence. IMO

I think he meant the audio of BG saying " guys" and " down the hill".

 

[Mr applebee]

I think he was in the woods at the far end of the bridge and walked past them enough to check that nobody was coming the other way or observing from the trail and then he turned around and trapped them.

This is what I think too. They must have seen him prior and been concerned/interested in him enough to have decided to video him. I doubt she just randomly recorded a guy who was heading up behind them on the bridge.

I’m thinking POSSIBLY some kind of interaction whilst he was passing them from the other side (maybe a childish quip from Libby and Abbey about his appearance or maybe he made a perverted remark), and then he walked far enough across to check that nobody was coming from the other side before doubling back on himself....which alarmed the girls, hence the video. key word POSSIBLY, I’m not saying it’s what happened, just shooting ideas off.

 

[California Sunset]

what makes you think it was a dr because I thought about that at first, perhaps the fact they may have killed them fast? or someone that worked at a slaughterhouse with animals or farm

If the girls were unable to scratch him they may have been able to punch or kick him which would leave bruises on his chest, arms, or legs which might not show up until later that day. The bad part is that unless LE had a suspect early on and checked his chest and arms the BG would have been probably healed of the bruises within a few months depending on how big they were.

Someone else and I started an exchange about cops. Not cops as killers, but bad cops, and he said they were weeding out the bad seeds, I believe, (post #1066 and post #1068) and I said they weren't weeding them out well enough or fast enough. (I can't say why I said that here.)
Then I switched to referring to doctors, because of a discussion I had with a friend about a surgeon a long time ago. The one she referred to was married to a friend, they had more than three children, he was into kinky things and other sex partners and he expected his wife to put up with everything. I mentioned a 'God complex' , and someone here was righteously indignant, I believe. I apologized. (A 'god complex' has many explanations if you do an internet search. Doctors and psychological magazines, professional websites, etc.)
Do I think it was a doctor? I think it could have been anybody with any profession or no profession on God's green earth. The reason I brought up a doctor was because they said people were going to be 'shocked' or 'stunned' when the truth came out. That would be the profession that would shock me. That and the governor. Now that I think about it, I'd also be shocked if the killer was the age of the girls or younger. That would stun the hell out of me based on the viciousness of the crime. But that voice doesn't sound like a young voice, unless it's distorted by the microphone on the phone.

 

[Alethea]

Here's where I get into trouble for not researching before I post. There is a law in effect, I don't know if it's federal or state, or if it's in effect in Indiana if it is state, but if you participate in a homicide, you are guilty of the homicide because you were there when it took place. So, in some cases, even if you didn't kill the person, you are charged with murder also. Who's going to clarify this and correct me?

AFAIK every state has a version of a felony murder statute. That means if you are engaged in the commission of a felony and someone dies, everyone involved can be charged with murder. So during a robbery gone bad that results in a death, the getaway car driver can also be charged with murder since he was involved in the felony that lead to the murder. It's not the same as an accessory or accomplice as those people are usually involved after-the-fact and not in the actual felony/murder.

 

[HOPE770145]

What this about a hog farm and can someone post the link? Ty

 

[HOPE770145]

Ha! And Steve Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter? Rich, really well-off, a loner but not lonely, he had everything, money, property, a beautiful companion, education, guts. Two prior marriage, on good terms with exes. I think no single factor can explain why the heck he opened the shooting. Age-wise, he was an outlier.
No one can explain.

I have to disagree. There are always warning signs red flags.

 

[HOPE770145]

Do we know if there was a sexual assault of the girls? Any confirmation either way?

 

[minazoe]

I don't know that he came to the trails "prepared to kill", although he obviously wasn't adverse to it either. I think he has a short fuse, and something the girls did or said - maybe something as simple as dismissing him or not giving him the time of day when he tried to talk to them - just sent him over the edge. Whether his intent when he told them to go down the hill was to kill them or if it just got out of hand, it's hard to say, but at that point I'd guess that he was already entertaining the idea, even if only as a possibility.

He definitely came prepared, <modsnip: opinion stated as fact has been removed> he has his coat stuffed with
god knows what. And the crime scene tells all to the LE ...what he left behind, what he used to kill them, if he tied them, posed them, every little thing..so I don't think the girls did anything in particular to him..this crime was completely pre-meditated. mOO

 

[HOPE770145]

He definitely came prepared, <modsnip: opinion stated as fact has been removed> he has his coat stuffed with god knows what. And the crime scene tells all to the LE ...what he left behind, what he used to kill them, if he tied them, posed them, every little thing..so I don't think the girls did anything in particular to him..this crime was completely pre-meditated. mOO

100%

 

[Kittybunny]

Thanks. Appreciate that. Do you think LE know his movements straight after he commited the crime?
I just think it can be surprising sometimes which memories you can invoke by producing a reconstruction.
If for instance they think the perpetrator crossed the Freedom bridge during his escape then that may jog the memory of someone travelling underneath it. Maybe they have evidence of him crossing a field a distance away from the trails. That may jog another memory. The smallest detail can sometimes have huge impacts.
I get that they are trying to preserve info for the good of the possible case but we are now 3+ years down the line. This thing needs a change of tact imo.

This is the first really good fresh idea I've seen in awhile! Welcome!

 

[Charlot123]

In this recent (April 29,2020) article, Leazenby says they go back and forth on whether one or more were responsible for the deaths.

“It has not been determined if it was one or more perpetrators.”

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

I trust Leazenby. He is not going to be either promoted or demoted because of this case. There is a certain job security in his position.

Now, if any police officer involved in investigation gets too high or too low, this will be interesting. So far, I saw only one major promotion. And Ives left, returned and left again.