Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Pyschsandi]

This is going to sound strange but I think we, normal people (hopefully) reading this, do not have any useful conception of how long a murder like this "should" take.

Obviously there are some gruesome cases where offenders kept their victims alive for many hours or days, prolonging their experience of the crime. However, if we look at what statistics tell us about kids like Abby and Libby who are abducted and murdered, we see that most missing children who have been abducted by a predator are killed in a very short period of time after their abduction. In fact, looking at the statistics I think you'll see that the Delphi murders fit into the usual pattern seen:

46.8% of abducted and murdered child victims are dead within one hour of contact with their killer
76.2% within 3 hours
88.5% within the first 24 hours after being abducted
(data from Keppel and White child abduction/murder study)

If you want an example that these child predators can act quickly, look at the sad case of Gabi Doolan - she was kidnapped, raped, sodomized, murdered (strangulation and drowning) and because the alarm was raised very soon after she disappeared, searchers found her within THE HALF HOUR. Her murderer kidnapped her and did all that plus conceal the area of the crime and was back with the other parents in just 30 minutes.

I completely agree Yemelyan, just think about how crazy the situation had been. This guy has just abducted two teenagers that were pleading with him and maybe not cooperating with him. One or both of them may have tried to run away (losing a shoe &phone). They may have fought with him which angered him. He had to act quickly to be able to do what he felt he needed to do and make his get away.

 

[MistyWaters]

My interpretation of TL's comment is that if LE thinks the killer is local and still walking amongst the community, then bank tellers, grocery clerks, neighbors, coworkers, etc. would be shocked and unnerved to finally discover this person(s), with whom they are in regular contact, has committed these horrible crimes.

Imagine finding out you had just served coffee to, chatted with, or accepted money from a freaking child murderer. *chilling* JMO

Yes, I don’t believe the focus was ever really off somebody with local connections but when the crime took off on its own to a far wider focus, the local tips may have began to dry up. A sort of NIMBY, we often hear everywhere when a local is interviewed by the media after any sort of serious crime is reported... “this is such a nice/quiet/friendly neighbourhood, I’m shocked this would happen here!”.

The reason I think LE have made various “sensationalized” comments over the past two years is to draw the attention back to the community and (as Dr Phil might say) to shock local people awake.

 

[Pyschsandi]

This is what I’d imagine as well, why it was quick. If fantasy is a driving factor, the memories from that heightened state while committing the crime are later, what’s the word....changed, altered, recreated?....made to fit whatever it is buried in the imagination of the killer that motivates the killer to do such a horrible act. If so the murders are a means to seek his pleasure, as disgusting as it is to call it that, but his fantasy remains with him after the fact.

JMO

Killers that gain pleasure from the act often take trophies in order to help them relive the crime. I wonder if anything was missing such as jewelry. They also will take photos or record the crime.

 

[carbuff]

Just dropping in to say hi...still following but unless there's something new...

 

[Peppery]

Does anyone think LE has someone on their radar but they don’t have enough evidence to arrest as of yet ?

Leazenby said in the DTH show he has about 5 people on his list.

 

[minazoe]

wow, if I was the killer I would not like hearing that L has 5 suspects. That is very narrow, yet enough to make you wonder if you are on that list... oooh the paranoia must at some point start to seep in..

the thing is this guy is either scared to re-offend or he is re-offending elsewhere and in different ways. I think when someone has theses criminal -psycho sexual urges they just have to reoffend, so they adjust and adapt.

if they know who it is, and they have him on their list of 5 then he is being watched on the reg..I am sure they are trying to get DNA or evidence from his home, but don't have enough for a warrant..maybe he has a hidey hole or shed
where his secrets are hidden..seems likely..if he is in Delphi they will get him... they have DNA...if he get's matched ..he's out.

I wish they would have brought in dogs, and I wish they would have swabbed every man in Delphi, including all that were working there at that time.

mOO

 

[Boxer]

My interpretation of TL's comment is that if LE thinks the killer is local and still walking amongst the community, then bank tellers, grocery clerks, neighbors, coworkers, etc. would be shocked and unnerved to finally discover this person(s), with whom they are in regular contact, has committed these horrible crimes.

Imagine finding out you had just served coffee to, chatted with, or accepted money from a freaking child murderer. *chilling* JMO

Yes.
And both suspect sketch can be virtually any man in Indiana.
MOO it is crazy how they seem to share so many features. features

 

[Diddian]

Yes.
And both suspect sketch can be virtually any man in Indiana.
MOO it is crazy how they seem to share so many features. features

True.

Recently, I saw a television commercial I'd never seen before about a company out of Indiana that sells packaged chicken. The commercial is very wholesome appearing - clean cut young men working heavy machinery to move things around a farm with smiles on their faces before they say a bit about their product. I've seen it a few times since.

Replace their smiles with a more neutral expression, and both young men in that commercial would resemble the Young Bridge Guy sketch.

Edit: I just looked the company up and I was wrong. Looks like the chicken farmers who appear in the commercial are from Minnesota. So, the sketch looks like many guys in the upper midwest, not just Indiana.

 

[TL4S]

Yes.
And both suspect sketch can be virtually any man in Indiana.
MOO it is crazy how they seem to share so many features. features

Exactly. The sketches, the voice, the language, the clothes, the suspect description... they all could fit a large number of men in Indiana or anywhere else in the midwest. JMO This is why I firmly believe everything released so far, on the whole, will mostly only be helpful to those who know the killer personally.

 

[Charlot123]

I would imagine a killer closely following the case for similar reasons. Of course he wants to see if LE might be on his trail, but maybe there are secondary highs watching all the media coverage?

If he is, and I hope he doesn’t, I’d sincerely advise him to stop watching, develop some hobby unrelated to computers or even praying alone, something distracting him from imaginary world, never spend the time alone, be with people even if they irritate him, and the moment he “mentally goes” there, switch to other hobbies. Even mentally. The more people focus on their thinking, the more drawn into it they become. If he, indeed, is religious and does not want to commit another murder. (And if he is truly religious - Anna’s words about not having baptized her daughter should add to his guilt, which could be immense).

 

[minazoe]

he has no guilt, he is a sociopath and a monster, even if he is religious on some weird level ( which I doubt )...he has justified his own actions and feels he will be forgiven..but seriously
I doubt he gives one fig about god and religion..unless he uses his religion for a cover ..like these mormon child murderers " Daybell/Vallow...or these pedophile priests who use the words of god to victimize children.

no no...he doesn't have the remorse you want to subscribe to him..he has excuses for what he did..he may realize there is something wrong with him but he's ok with it and will smile right in your face and go on pretending till the day he goes down.

mOO

 

[photographer4]

Who decided the caller could be trusted? GH or LE? How did this person know he was still in the area when DG arrived? That’s huge information I’ve never heard before.

Thanks for asking this! I had the same question! The answer makes a huge difference in how the information is perceived!

 

[Yemelyan]

If he is, and I hope he doesn’t, I’d sincerely advise him to stop watching, develop some hobby unrelated to computers or even praying alone, something distracting him from imaginary world, never spend the time alone, be with people even if they irritate him, and the moment he “mentally goes” there, switch to other hobbies. Even mentally. The more people focus on their thinking, the more drawn into it they become. If he, indeed, is religious and does not want to commit another murder. (And if he is truly religious - Anna’s words about not having baptized her daughter should add to his guilt, which could be immense).

Bolded by me...
It's just one expert's opinion, may be true or not true, but the criminologist who appeared on the HLN Extra program devoted to this case said that if the killer is watching coverage of the Delphi case, she believes that this may actually be suppressing his urges to commit more crimes like this. The way she described it was, each time he sees a news article on the case or sees that people are still talking about it, he is reminded that he could be caught and the trajectory of fantasies that may lead him to re-offending is interrupted.

So, if she's right, we should all hope that he continues to watch.

You'd think that seeing his crime talked about gives him a thrill, but the actual response may be more nuanced than that or even negative. I don't have an opinion either way but just reporting what one expert had to say about it.

 

[photographer4]

I have been thinking about that a lot lately. We know Libby's phone was found, that's how we got the audio and video of the suspect, but I haven't heard anyone say anything about Abby's phone. Was it found with her? Do police have it? Or is it missing?

As far as we know, she didn't have a parent approved phone (or any phone). If police found one on her or somewhere at the scene and figured out it was hers, we haven't been told. That would be huge, because then if her mom didn't give it to her, who the heck did, and for what reason? If she had one, how was she using it (which apps, social media, who was she messaging?). I could see why police might not want to release this info.

Also, consider this, if she had one that police found out about, that her mom didn't give her, and it has yet to be found, then where is it and why??

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

So I fell into a rabbit hole.
I want to send an email to the tip line, but I don’t have clear cut evidence but I do have a near identical photo to the 1st sketch, that wasn’t released until 2019.
I would HATE to waste their precious time and money.
I really just do not know what to do.

ETA: I at the very least think that LE should see the photos.

 

[Skibunny]

So I fell into a rabbit hole.
I want to send an email to the tip line, but I don’t have clear cut evidence but I do have a near identical photo to the 1st sketch, that wasn’t released until 2019.
I would HATE to waste their precious time and money.
I really just do not know what to do.

Send it in!!! Just put in as many details of the photo as possible, you know like date taken, place taken, everything you know.

 

[MKind]

I agree this is so difficult on this case because we all know they are digging through 1000's and 1000's of tips. I never know what to do either when I have an idea or possible direction on cases. Frustrating though, I agree.

 

[stattlich1]

I'm pretty sure nobody on this site, or elsewhere, has with any accuracy, described the scene in any way close to what was in fact found there. I don't think that has been nailed down by any of us. When they say odd, unusual, signatures, not what you'd expect, I think we're all way off the beam in terms of what this killer left behind.

That's just my opinion.

With that being said, I do think he is/was physically fit. I think he is physically strong. Upper body strength. A farm boy, athlete, football player, swimmer, weight lifter. I don't think he has any physical disorder that would be readily apparent walking in a crowd. Keen eyesight, determined, focused, organized, ruthless, murderer.

Anyway, my colleagues, over the years, we've had great discussions relative to the nature/nurture, or determinist/free will debates.

I always like to take the side that believes all behavior is choice. It may be disturbed, or affected, by ones experience, or by drug/alcohol abuse, or chemical imbalance, but the act of behaving remains the choice of he or she that engages in it. For me to believe otherwise means that some other entity has taken over a person, and that person has lost the power of choice in behaving, and has given up that power to some other power that is acting within the person.

I always liked to ask my clients, if you didn't do it, then who did? The answer will give a quick psychoanalysis of the individual, for sure. If the answer is someone else is operating inside me, then a good follow up question would be to say, that's interesting, tell me more about this person. We clearly, at that point, have entered the realm of psychosis, multiple personality disorder, etc.

I will remain confident that BG knew what he was doing that day. He planned it, and acted upon it. He came prepared. I suspect he had the layout of the land all figured out, he was familiar with it. He knew his entry, his exit, his approach, his destination. I just don't think it was random.

And he has nerves of steel. He has kept his mouth shut. Either that, or he is being protected. Or he is dead.

If it is the former, the ability to keep his mouth shut, then IMO he has quite a strong conscience. He knows what he did was wrong, and he wants to avoid the punishment for doing it.

 

[TL4S]

I'm pretty sure nobody on this site, or elsewhere, has with any accuracy, described the scene in any way close to what was in fact found there. I don't think that has been nailed down by any of us. When they say odd, unusual, signatures, not what you'd expect, I think we're all way off the beam in terms of what this killer left behind.

That's just my opinion.

With that being said, I do think he is/was physically fit. I think he is physically strong. Upper body strength. A farm boy, athlete, football player, swimmer, weight lifter. I don't think he has any physical disorder that would be readily apparent walking in a crowd. Keen eyesight, determined, focused, organized, ruthless, murderer.

Anyway, my colleagues, over the years, we've had great discussions relative to the nature/nurture, or determinist/free will debates.

I always like to take the side that believes all behavior is choice. It may be disturbed, or affected, by ones experience, or by drug/alcohol abuse, or chemical imbalance, but the act of behaving remains the choice of he or she that engages in it. For me to believe otherwise means that some other entity has taken over a person, and that person has lost the power of choice in behaving, and has given up that power to some other power that is acting within the person.

I always liked to ask my clients, if you didn't do it, then who did? The answer will give a quick psychoanalysis of the individual, for sure. If the answer is someone else is operating inside me, then a good follow up question would be to say, that's interesting, tell me more about this person. We clearly, at that point, have entered the realm of psychosis, multiple personality disorder, etc.

I will remain confident that BG knew what he was doing that day. He planned it, and acted upon it. He came prepared. I suspect he had the layout of the land all figured out, he was familiar with it. He knew his entry, his exit, his approach, his destination. I just don't think it was random.

And he has nerves of steel. He has kept his mouth shut. Either that, or he is being protected. Or he is dead.

If it is the former, the ability to keep his mouth shut, then IMO he has quite a strong conscience. He knows what he did was wrong, and he wants to avoid the punishment for doing it.

I thought of you when I read this today:

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County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

Q. Are there regrets about not securing the Morning Heights Cemetery as a possible part of the crime scene (i.e. possible exit route of the killer(s)?

A. At the time, it was uncertain exactly what the “totality of the circumstances” were.

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He's a bit evasive here, but I don't think parking or exiting via the cemetery has necessarily been ruled out. JMO

 

[carbuff]

And he has nerves of steel. He has kept his mouth shut. Either that, or he is being protected. Or he is dead.

snipped by me

Or possibly he's locked up somewhere for another crime.

In the military, stationed far away?