Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[Prime8]

Right. I noted that the only two triggers to get him cussing and upset were the explicit details of very young children, and the murders. Somehow, those two things were far worse than what he admitted to doing himself. Was that because it really did cross a line for him, or because he didn't want to admit to crossing it.

I noticed that too. He has a very different reaction to both.

 

[cujenn81]

I would really like to know whose wifi KAK's phone hooked up with on Country Club Rd, too, AND when on Feb. 13 that took place. In the interview, it kind of sounded like LE was using that data to prove KAK was not with his father, like he had claimed. But in a way, if they can prove it was KAK using the phone, it might also clear him from being at the crime scene during the time of the murders.

Less than a week after the murders, a girl saw a man peering into her window with a ski mask on. The girl was the daughter of a family who KAK used to live with off and on. She had been communicating with a_shots and had given her address.

So, LE has timestamps for everything. They have identified two different users on the a_shots account, due to the language used. My thought is that there are identifiers in his online activity that would allow LE to say, "okay, KAK was the one at Country Club Rd, or KAK was at home looking up while ski mask perp was at her window," etc. Or vice versa if the other user was on during those times. jmo

We really need to figure out a way to educate these young girls about how dangerous it is to share personal information (especially, their HOME ADDRESS!) with a total stranger they met online. No matter how fineeeee he looks in his online photos. I realize that doing so is a bit tricky and a lot complex but… WE MUST find a way to get this message across to our younger generations. It has to really resonate without being preachy or dramatic. Girls giving out their home addresses is like a defcon 2 level situation, IMO.

I am not at all blaming the young girls. It’s our responsibility as adults to figure out a way to relay the dangers in such a way that it sticks (with scaring them or causing another satanic panic, of course).

 

[Yemelyan]

Right. I noted that the only two triggers to get him cussing and upset were the explicit details of very young children, and the murders. Somehow, those two things were far worse than what he admitted to doing himself. Was that because it really did cross a line for him, or because he didn't want to admit to crossing it.

Reminded me of Carter saying at the 2019 press conference "what will those close to you think...two YOUNG girls." I always thought that was a dig at someone who either didn't know their true ages or was on the fence about exploiting younger victims.

 

[Diddian]

Right. I noted that the only two triggers to get him cussing and upset were the explicit details of very young children, and the murders. Somehow, those two things were far worse than what he admitted to doing himself. Was that because it really did cross a line for him, or because he didn't want to admit to crossing it.

I wonder if KAK was peripherally involved as a facilitator of the murders by selling CSAM plus the addresses of the children he’d exploited to others, thus granting the killer access to the children the killer would otherwise not have. OR, by selling direct access to the a_shots account so that buyers could use that account to personally exploit and manipulate the victims into delivering themselves where they were unprotected and killed.

KAK vehemently denied he provided access to that account to others; at most he suggests a friend might have used his phone while KAK was under the influence of drugs. But he lies until the evidence traps him into admitting his role, so why believe him?

If KAK did that, could he be charged for conspiracy to murder even if he did not know his buyer(s) intended murder?

ETA: I would think intent would generally be a required element of such a charge; however, granting someone direct access to children and the means to persuade and/or blackmail those children into surrendering the protection of their home and their parents SHOULD make anyone with any degree of mental competence aware that that exposes and possibly delivers those children into the worst possible danger.

 

[sandy_80]

the hair color and age have been removed from the fbi page...
next could be the sketches and then you would have a complete blank page to fill whatever

 

[Silver_produce0]

the hair color and age have been removed from the fbi page...
next could be the sketches and then you would have a complete blank page to fill whatever

removing that information but not the sketch makes me feel like the sketch is not reliable. How do you describe a person in enough detail to get a somewhat accurate picture of their face, but you can’t give an approximate height range, weight range, or hair color?

 

[sandy_80]

ITS FUNNY but I am getting all the usual aggressive negative feed back elsewhere because I stand by ( this kline drama has nothing to do with the case ) and the girls were a victim of a random attack ..
also the video is really not that useless no matter who tells me that..I know what i see ..the general appearance and gait..its all there
plZ TELL ME i AM NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS PAGE

 

[Diddian]

removing that information but not the sketch makes me feel like the sketch is not reliable. How do you describe a person in enough detail to get a somewhat accurate picture of their face, but you can’t give an approximate height range, weight range, or hair color?

If the witnesses responsible for the drawing had only seen the face on a computer screen (say, if those witnesses were not visitors to the nature reserve on 2/13/17, but were instead LE viewing digital files capturing whoever was using the a_shots account in the interaction with LG), they would not know height or weight range, and they would only know hair color at the time that digital file was created.

 

[scapa]

ITS FUNNY but I am getting all the usual aggressive negative feed back elsewhere because I stand by ( this kline drama has nothing to do with the case ) and the girls were a victim of a random attack ..
also the video is really not that useless no matter who tells me that..I know what i see ..the general appearance and gait..its all there
plZ TELL ME i AM NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS PAGE

I'm sure you're not the only one, but this is pretty shocking material that does seem to tie into a few of the more bewildering aspects of this case, and forms part of a larger pattern that is pretty compelling in terms of available evidence, LE statements and investigative lines, possible motives and the highly local nature of the crime that LE have long emphasized -- and, of course, these are serious crimes in and of themselves.

So while this may well turn out to have been a random act of violence by a perp who committed it and then moved on, there are reasons why the "Kline drama" has gained such traction, and it isn't just down to prurience or theory-of-the-week focus bias. IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

If the witnesses responsible for the drawing had only seen the face on a computer screen (say, if those witnesses were not visitors to the nature reserve on 2/13/17, but were instead LE viewing digital files capturing whoever was using the a_shots account in the interaction with LG), they would not know height or weight range, and they would only know hair color at the time that digital file was created.

Would ISP be so utterly incompetent as to release a sketch in Apr/19 of a face someone recalled seeing on a computer screen considering they’d already had discovered the fabricated profile and who was behind it during the KAK search warrant in Feb/17 - and still to this day not have retracted the sketch? I sure hope not

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM
“The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."
Some suspect info removed from FBI poster on Delphi killings | wthr.com

 

[iamnotagolem]

After reading all 194 pages I’m even more confused.

I still don’t think KAK had anything to do with the murders, clearly he belongs in prison for all the child .

TK seems to be into super young kids 4-12 year olds, which makes him even less likely to be the murderer unless Abby being smaller and more child like and less teen like was his target. Then TK seems more viable as a suspect.

Neither TK nor KAK are BG so where does BG come in? Was there more than one person involved?

I’ve come around to the idea that one of the Klines could be involved in the murder but can’t buy them being BG.

Side note, saw our neighbor today wearing BG style jeans, even gathered at the bottom because they’re too long and a dark blue jacket. He’s 82 and around 5’6”, so I still think BG is older and shorter than TK & KAK.

 

[TL4S]

I'm sure you're not the only one, but this is pretty shocking material that does seem to tie into a few of the more bewildering aspects of this case, and forms part of a larger pattern that is pretty compelling in terms of available evidence, LE statements and investigative lines, possible motives and the highly local nature of the crime that LE have long emphasized -- and, of course, these are serious crimes in and of themselves.

So while this may well turn out to have been a random act of violence by a perp who committed it and then moved on, there are reasons why the "Kline drama" has gained such traction, and it isn't just down to prurience or theory-of-the-week focus bias. IMO.

Yes. And, it would be an additional coincidence that another young girl (likely L's friend, at that) had communicated with a_ shots shortly before having a creepy encounter. Exactly one week to the day (indeed again on a Monday afternoon) after the murders.

 

[IceIce9]

ITS FUNNY but I am getting all the usual aggressive negative feed back elsewhere because I stand by ( this kline drama has nothing to do with the case ) and the girls were a victim of a random attack ..
also the video is really not that useless no matter who tells me that..I know what i see ..the general appearance and gait..its all there
plZ TELL ME i AM NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS PAGE

I haven’t changed my opinion since Day 1 that this was NOT a random attack, and that the girls had planned to go for a specific reason, like to meet someone.

But differing opinions is what makes WS so interesting. Always good to keep an open mind and consider the opinions of others.

 

[Prime8]

After reading all 194 pages I’m even more confused.

I still don’t think KAK had anything to do with the murders, clearly he belongs in prison for all the child .

TK seems to be into super young kids 4-12 year olds, which makes him even less likely to be able he murderer unless Abby being smaller and more child like and less teen like was his target. Then TK seems more viable as a suspect.

He seems to be into any age, honestly. They have a lot of content from older children (teenagers) as well. I think they were just pulling out the worst of it for the interview.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I thought KAK was trying to protect TK which is why he kept saying it must have been him, and he's the only one using the AS account.

BUT he mentioned that he gave DNA in his first interrogation in 2017 and he wasn't worried because he knew that would clear him. He must not think his dad is involved or else they would have already linked TK to the murders with DNA.

 

[Silver_produce0]

Yes. And, it would be an additional coincidence that another young girl (likely L's friend, at that) had communicated with a_ shots shortly before having a creepy encounter. Exactly one week to the day (indeed again on a Monday afternoon) after the murders.

Yes. Way too much of a coincidence for these things not to be connected. I said this before but I’ll repeat it. Before this stuff came up, this appeared to be a random homicide because there was nothing to show why these girls would have been in danger. But this online child predator stuff is a 180 from that and it’s so incredibly dangerous that I feel like it has to be *it*.

 

[sandy_80]

I'm sure you're not the only one, but this is pretty shocking material that does seem to tie into a few of the more bewildering aspects of this case, and forms part of a larger pattern that is pretty compelling in terms of available evidence, LE statements and investigative lines, possible motives and the highly local nature of the crime that LE have long emphasized -- and, of course, these are serious crimes in and of themselves.

So while this may well turn out to have been a random act of violence by a perp who committed it and then moved on, there are reasons why the "Kline drama" has gained such traction, and it isn't just down to prurience or theory-of-the-week focus bias. IMO.

you see we have been down that road before where ppl were absolutely sure we are there..but it was another dead end
when things comes into focus ..you still are just seeing a tiny corner of the picture and not the whole
so many things dont make sense here ...
that the killer would arrive exactly in time when its impossible for the girls to know when will they be there ..
also a groomed teen wouldn't bring a gf along for a secret date
a catfishing killer wouldnt leave a phone !
i can keep going

 

[Tealgrove]

I thought KAK was trying to protect TK which is why he kept saying it must have been him, and he's the only one using the AS account.

BUT he mentioned that he gave DNA in his first interrogation in 2017 and he wasn't worried because he knew that would clear him. He must not think his dad is involved or else they would have already linked TK to the murders with DNA.

I had the same thought.

 

[iamnotagolem]

you see we have been down that road before where ppl were absolutely sure we are there..but it was another dead end
when things comes into focus ..you still are just seeing a tiny corner of the picture and not the whole
so many things dont make sense here ...
that the killer would arrive exactly in time when its impossible for the girls to know when will they be there ..
also a groomed teen wouldn't bring a gf along for a secret date
a catfishing killer wouldnt leave a phone !
i can keep going

What is your theory?

I'm not really set on any one theory and TK & KAK don't seem like viable suspects. But I can't get behind a random killing either.

What are the odds that Libby was being catfished by what seems to be at least 2 people (TK & KAK), made plans to meet up with a catfish but then got murdered by someone who wasn't at least aware or involved in the catfishing?

I mean clearly there is no shortage of killers/child predators but for Libby to fall victim to multiple unrelated ones seems unlikely.