Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[swedeheart]

Gray is going over the interview again:

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Questions I have after reading the full KAK/BM interview:

KAK says he and his dad watched pay-per-view wrestling, but all I could find is:
Monday Night RAW: February 13, 2017 8PM ET on USA Network TV.

His dad had Mondays off, according to KAK, and usually slept until the afternoon because he worked 3rd shift. I mean, how could KAK even be sure, weeks to years later, that they were both in the house on that specific Monday afternoon?

BM seemed somewhat surprised when KAK said he didn't think his dad knew RL. Does she know otherwise?

I don't think it comes as any surprise to anyone here that KAK's father might be looked at with suspicion when clearly he was the one with obvious access to the a_shots account. IMO, a possible red flag was right there on the affidavit when it states that the father confirmed that KAK used SC and IG. It's not like he couldn't have just known that information, but imo, it also might point to deeper knowledge of online activity than I would expect for a father of an adult son. Jmo.

If we believe KAK, and the iPhone5 was just sitting on the counter when he got home from his polygraph, then either LE totally missed it, or KAK's father put it there. The deletion activity didn't take place until after KAK got home, so apparently, the father wasn't deleting things while his son was away. But it's strange. What prompted that? There was a lot more deleted than just an application, as KAK stated. What were the conversations between father and son that night? Why did it take two days to turn it in?

KAK says the GPS for all his devices proved he was home. Or at least the devices were home. Was there activity on those devices during the timeframe the murders happened? And what about the GPS and activity for the father's devices?

What about the latest LE a_shots ask? They specifically ask about the "creator" of the account. That's KAK. Unless Dad created a secondary one, which would still be from the same IP address. Let's not forget the emily user, listed in the affidavit, who claimed to be having sex with both KAK and his father...

And what about the statement by FBI after the Peru search that nobody from that home was connected to the murders? Just talk? Was the connection found later? Is KAK lying?

Monday Night Raw isn’t pay per view, it’s a standard cable WWE show.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

So, it looks like it only took you about 3 minutes to get from the trail head near where A&L were dropped off, to the bridge. Then, even with all your pauses to show the area, it took you around 10 minutes to cross the bridge. Other bridge-crossing videos that didn't have pauses took around 5 minutes, so that's like an 8-10 minutes walk from trail head to south (east) end of bridge. It took A&L nearly a half hour to go the same distance. That depends on if the 2:07 SC photo was posted in real-time or later, but either way, they had been on the trails less than 40 minutes before the BG video was taken. What are your thoughts about what the girls might have been doing all that time?

My bridge cross was actually longer. I stopped my camera to concentrate on not falling into the creek! I also stopped the camera on the trail. My guess as to what they were doing is talking and taking pictures. One of the girls took a picture of another while they were on the bridge. I also have a hunch that they encountered Bridge Guy on the trail, possibly at or before where the trail splits. This is by the memorial on the trail. If he went on that trail, he could get to the bank of the creek, see where the girls were at on the bridge, and then go up to the bridge himself.

 

[TL4S]

My bridge cross was actually longer. I stopped my camera to concentrate on not falling into the creek! I also stopped the camera on the trail. My guess as to what they were doing is talking and taking pictures. One of the girls took a picture of another while they were on the bridge. I also have a hunch that they encountered Bridge Guy on the trail, possibly at or before where the trail splits. This is by the memorial on the trail. If he went on that trail, he could get to the bank of the creek, see where the girls were at on the bridge, and then go up to the bridge himself.

Kudos for you for even crossing. I really don't think I'd muster the courage to do it!

I have always had the same thought about them encountering BG earlier on the trail. I even wondered if he was already on that lower trail and yelled something up at them while they were on the bridge. Would that be feasible?

 

[CurtMarcucci]

Here is the view BG would have had if he split off onto the gravel trail. It takes less than 5 minutes to get back to the west end of the bridge from here.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

Kudos for you for even crossing. I really don't think I'd muster the courage to do it!

I have always had the same thought about them encountering BG earlier on the trail. I even wondered if he was already on that lower trail and yelled something up at them while they were on the bridge. Would that be feasible?

It would be feasible if he were at the end of that trail. I had heard something about the girls referring to him as the "creepy guy". That was early on and I can't remember which news source said it.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

At the end you said: "Hope you all enjoyed." That was the most nerve-wracking crossing I've seen. Was it as bad going back? Thanks for sharing.

Going back was NOWHERE near as bad as the initial crossing! The initial crossing was 30-40 minutes (I stopped the camera out of the interests of self preservation). Half way over the creek, I had thought about turning back but then thought about the girls. I was contemplating taking the road beneath the bridge back instead of crossing again. That was when I saw the No Trespassing sign. I decided to suck it up and take the trip that the girls never got to take. Going back was only 10 minutes.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I cannot find anything on the late 2021 Peru house search. I've seen it referenced, but does anyone know when it took place or have a link about it?

The only source was a tweet from a FOX reporter and the source was apparently a neighbour. I’m sceptical because the media should’ve been all over the actual search warrant but nary a word officially reported by MSM.

imgur.com

50 seconds in approximately. FOX59

 

[TL4S]

50 seconds in approximately. FOX59

Thank you!

 

[ScumbagTrav]

There was the Elimination Chamber PPV on the 12th. You can get the PPV for a few days after the actual event. A cable bill would show if he is telling the truth.

WWE schedule, list of PPVs for 2017: Clash of Champions date, location

The WWE Helf a PPV, the Elimination Chamber on the 2/12/17. That is when it premiered. Now you are correct, the PPV can be purchased again for a replay after that, but you aren't considering how the vast majority of people were watching PPV's at the time, before, and since: the WWE Network.

With a 9.99 subscription, the PPV event could be viewed on demand, after its initial airing, so there likely wouldn't be a cable bill showing a $40 ppv purchase.

Should we think this full transcript was released by accident, or on purpose?

Well the KAK casefile has an entry that tells us...

An order is issued to remove 2 previous entries (the documents Murder Sheets obtained). It states:

03/04/2022 = Order Issued
Order entered for removal of two erroneous CCS entries.

So it's clear it was accidental, based on that wording (erroneous).

Moreover, I can't see the logic in LE purposely leaking an interview done by Barbara MacDonald, who herself DIDNT release it all, likely at the request of law enforcement. I mean, if anyone was going to be able to release it, she had dibs. It was her interview. She has had a relationship with LE, and was likely doing her part to maintain that relationship.

My guess: if and when an arrest is made, Barbara scores a big interview. They'll make it up to her.

 

[DeDee]

The only source was a tweet from a FOX reporter and the source was apparently a neighbour. I’m sceptical because the media should’ve been all over the actual search warrant but nary a word officially reported by MSM.

imgur.com

This is my own opinion and speculations:

Thank you for the screenshot. I recall the warrant in Peru because I conducted a deep dive into the addy, at the time, even though the # of his street address was redacted, there were only so many homes it could have been. ATT, there were no arrests associated with the address.

Did LE scoop the K's dog because the CS may have had a dog hair left behind? JC had a dog, too.

I am one who wholeheartedly supports our Men In Blue. However, in this case, I find one gentleman to be particularly stubborn and seemingly not open minded. Then, we have whoever was responsible for following through on the Peru address lead early in the case failing to do so. IOW, for reasons I cannot explain nor understand, the handling of this murder has failed our two precious girls. Two years ago, we were told by ISP CD that they were going down a new line of investigation yet there is still no arrest. A few weeks ago, the killer was taunted by ISP DC when saying "we know a lot about the killer. Today could be the day. Sleep well." This doesn't sound like he was speaking to someone who is in jail like JC or KAK.

I believe the killer is hiding in plain sight. I don't believe there is a huge ring hanging out in Delphi that is part of the murder investigation although Delphi does have a significant # of RSOs. In 2019, the population was a mere 3000+/-. I believe most of these people are good, hard working folks but some may have raised spoiled brats who skate the law often. Delphi, including Carroll Co, seems to have drug problems; not . moo

The notorious Jim Jones began his crusade in Indy at the Peoples Temple. Also, I know for a fact there was a massive trafficking ring in Indy. Even back in the '90s, cheaper hotels had flyers in the restrooms left w/ph #s on them to help females who may be trafficked. On numerous occasions, I stayed in downtown Indy at the Crown Plaza at Union Station while on business during that decade and never once ventured from my hotel for anything, other than traveling to and fro the airport, due to stern warnings regarding crime and trafficking. There is a fabulous glass covered direct walkover from the CP to the Mall for guests to feel safe without needing to walk the streets.

For an O/T respite:
While I cannot post random videos, due to TOS, it is worthy of a look at this grand CP hotel because they've preserved railroad cars on the rr track that are rented to hotel guests. The rr cars have themes such as Elvis and Marilyn Monroe.



* Note the rr car has Monon Route painted on its side

Crowne Plaza Indianapolis - Downtown Union Station
.

 

[Prime8]

One thing that was interesting that I haven't seen in any news coverage is that 1) there is a road that runs parallel to a bout 50% of the walking trail and 2) the trail splits off 4/10 of a mile in just before you come to the bridge. This trail runs down a hill to the north bank of the creek south of the bridge.

If you don't know the layout, it's hard to keep up with how people talk about the trail system but you will find it is actually talked about quite a bit now that you know. The road that runs parallel is often referred to as the "private driveway" or "private road".

 

[Prime8]

So, it looks like it only took you about 3 minutes to get from the trail head near where A&L were dropped off, to the bridge. Then, even with all your pauses to show the area, it took you around 10 minutes to cross the bridge. Other bridge-crossing videos that didn't have pauses took around 5 minutes, so that's like an 8-10 minutes walk from trail head to south (east) end of bridge. It took A&L nearly a half hour to go the same distance. That depends on if the 2:07 SC photo was posted in real-time or later, but either way, they had been on the trails less than 40 minutes before the BG video was taken. What are your thoughts about what the girls might have been doing all that time?

If you've hanged out with teenagers recently, the answer is dawdling, nothing, taking pictures, looking at pictures, haha. I have a niece that will literally take 5 minutes to get in or out of a car if you aren't constantly reminding her to get in/out and close the door.

 

[Prime8]

There was the Elimination Chamber PPV on the 12th. You can get the PPV for a few days after the actual event. A cable bill would show if he is telling the truth.

WWE schedule, list of PPVs for 2017: Clash of Champions date, location

Well, the cable bill could show that he bought it. Not necessarily that he was at home watching it.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Well, the cable bill could show that he bought it. Not necessarily that he was at home watching it.

Only of they ordered it through their cable provider, which in 2017 is pretty unlikely, given the WWE Network offered the event for only 9.99 per monthly subscription.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

The WWE Helf a PPV, the Elimination Chamber on the 2/12/17. That is when it premiered. Now you are correct, the PPV can be purchased again for a replay after that, but you aren't considering how the vast majority of people were watching PPV's at the time, before, and since: the WWE Network.

With a 9.99 subscription, the PPV event could be viewed on demand, after its initial airing, so there likely wouldn't be a cable bill showing a $40 ppv purchase.




Well the KAK casefile has an entry that tells us...

An order is issued to remove 2 previous entries (the documents Murder Sheets obtained). It states:

03/04/2022 = Order Issued
Order entered for removal of two erroneous CCS entries.

So it's clear it was accidental, based on that wording (erroneous).

Moreover, I can't see the logic in LE purposely leaking an interview done by Barbara MacDonald, who herself DIDNT release it all, likely at the request of law enforcement. I mean, if anyone was going to be able to release it, she had dibs. It was her interview. She has had a relationship with LE, and was likely doing her part to maintain that relationship.

My guess: if and when an arrest is made, Barbara scores a big interview. They'll make it up to her.

I forgot about WWE Network. I haven't watched a PPV wrestling event since The Rock and Stone Cold.

 

[margarita25]

I stumbled upon a case on my YT feed the other day, (sorry can’t remember the specific case, it might have been on Crime Watch Daily), I’ll try to remember because I was reminded of Abby’s and Libby’s case a few times as far as the investigation.

Long story short, a girl was found dead in a field, sexual assault, and the case had gone cold for some time. LE decided to release something much later not previously revealed to the public, re: underwear being found at the scene, and/or the victim(s) strangled with (someone else’s) underwear, and this broke the case wide open.

This tip led to that break because the girlfriend of the killer found underwear in her boyfriend’s truck and was suspicious enough to report it after hearing this new information. A sharp detective was going back on old tips and noticed the mention of “underwear” which immediately flagged his attention. Had this new detail not been revealed, the woman would not have called in.

Point is, we know there could be obvious benefits of crime scene details being revealed, as demonstrated above; however after thinking about this some more, it has occurred to me that IF LE has absolutely nothing, no DNA, then their only hope of absolutely knowing they have the right person may rest on holding back these details. Of course, obviously it’s a double-edged sword, because that may prevent them from getting a specific tip to begin with - It could trigger a tip, or could hurt them in the long run.

I feel somewhat, good, to really come to this conclusion at this stage five years later and truly understand the importance of how imperative it may be to keep details close to the vest, despite the benefits it MAY provide. But again, double edged sword.

—

eta:
I’m remembering more about the case, girl abducted from her friend’s couch on a sleepover after going to a casino. They had a sketch because a previous victim was raped on a college campus parking lot but let go, one of two victims iirc, and came forward afterwards to provide a sketch, and in this case iirc they were able to match the DNA.

 

[Confusion]

I really have no idea if this is important or not, but I kn0w people tend to use the 2:07 photo as an important mark on their timeline. If I remember correctly (although I admit that I may not), when that picture was first mentioned, it was said to be the last one that they had uploaded. I've always been curious about those, if any, that were taken before that one. Even if it was accidental, there may be something in the background of one that gives more information.

 

[Laura456]

I stumbled upon a case on my YT feed the other day, (sorry can’t remember the specific case, it might have been on Crime Watch Daily), I’ll try to remember because I was reminded of Abby’s and Libby’s case a few times as far as the investigation.

Long story short, a girl was found dead in a field, sexual assault, and the case had gone cold for some time. LE decided to release something much later not previously revealed to the public, re: underwear being found at the scene, and/or the victim(s) strangled with (someone else’s) underwear, and this broke the case wide open.

This tip led to that break because the girlfriend of the killer found underwear in her boyfriend’s truck and was suspicious enough to report it after hearing this new information. A sharp detective was going back on old tips and noticed the mention of “underwear” which immediately flagged his attention. Had this new detail not been revealed, the woman would not have called in.

Point is, we know there could be obvious benefits of crime scene details being revealed, as demonstrated above; however after thinking about this some more, it has occurred to me that IF LE has absolutely nothing, no DNA, then their only hope of absolutely knowing they have the right person may rest on holding back these details. Of course, obviously it’s a double-edged sword, because that may prevent them from getting a specific tip to begin with - It could trigger a tip, or could hurt them in the long run.

I feel somewhat, good, to really come to this conclusion at this stage five years later and truly understand the importance of how imperative it may be to keep details close to the vest, despite the benefits it MAY provide. But again, double edged sword.

—

eta:
I’m remembering more about the case, girl abducted from her friend’s couch on a sleepover after going to a casino. They had a sketch because a previous victim was raped on a college campus parking lot but let go, one of two victims iirc, and came forward afterwards to provide a sketch, and in this case iirc they were able to match the DNA.

It's so crazy to me that they wouldn't have DNA with such a quick and vicious crime. The person who did this knew he could be discovered at any time so wouldn't have lingered.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I really have no idea if this is important or not, but I kn0w people tend to use the 2:07 photo as an important mark on their timeline. If I remember correctly (although I admit that I may not), when that picture was first mentioned, it was said to be the last one that they had uploaded. I've always been curious about those, if any, that were taken before that one. Even if it was accidental, there may be something in the background of one that gives more information.

I'm guessing there was nothing of evidentiary value in those photos, but like you mention, I think it's all but certain that other photos were taken. Maybe not of the girls, but of their doings or the scenery. I'd imagine those would be especially heartbreaking to see. Shots frozen in time before hell breaks loose, and those poor girls had no idea.