Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[Silver_produce0]

that the killer would arrive exactly in time when its impossible for the girls to know when will they be there ..
also a groomed teen wouldn't bring a gf along for a secret date
a catfishing killer wouldnt leave a phone !
i can keep going

RSBM

but we don’t know when he arrived. He could have been there at 9am for all we know.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a 13 year old agreed to meet up with another teenager and brought a friend along. That seems more normal and likely than not.

 

[scapa]

RSBM

but we don’t know when he arrived. He could have been there at 9am for all we know.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a 13 year old agreed to meet up with another teenager and brought a friend along. That seems more normal and likely than not.

Especially for a teen with a known interest in criminology who took perhaps an extra measure of caution should the meet-up not go as planned -- or even should it go as she suspected it might, in a To Catch a Predator-type scenario (note: I don't think is is what happened).

 

[mainemom376]

Yes. Way too much of a coincidence for these things not to be connected. I said this before but I’ll repeat it. Before this stuff came up, this appeared to be a random homicide because there was nothing to show why these girls would have been in danger. But this online child predator stuff is a 180 from that and it’s so incredibly dangerous that I feel like it has to be *it*.

I agree. The thing that makes me hesitant though is the time. If this is it, I just can’t believe it took all this time. Especially if all this information (phone data etc) was right there in the beginning. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

What is your theory?

I'm not really set on any one theory and TK & KAK don't seem like viable suspects. But I can't get behind a random killing either.

What are the odds that Libby was being catfished by what seems to be at least 2 people (TK & KAK), made plans to meet up with a catfish but then got murdered by someone who wasn't at least aware or involved in the catfishing?

I mean clearly there is no shortage of killers/child predators but for Libby to fall victim to multiple unrelated ones seems unlikely.

How do we know that Libby made plans to meet up with a catfish or is this just speculation?

One thing to remember is LE is legally allowed to blatantly lie during interviews and they do it all the time in hopes of getting a confession,

 

[iamnotagolem]

How do we know that Libby made plans to meet up with a catfish or is this just speculation?

One thing to remember is LE is legally allowed to blatantly lie during interviews and they do it all the time in hopes of getting a confession,

Did you read the transcript? It was mentioned there that they have a witness who said she was going to meet AS at the bridge that day.

 

[sandy_80]

How do we know that Libby made plans to meet up with a catfish or is this just speculation?

One thing to remember is LE is legally allowed to blatantly lie during interviews and they do it all the time in hopes of getting a confession,

exactly
no..those who read this are certain now of a major cover up or an arrest ..
thats why investigations are not for the public

 

[Andreee]

Yes, very closely connected. If they didn't know these details before, Abby's and Libby's families and loved ones must be feeling devastated. I can see the strategy behind holding a lot of this info back from them (if it was).

Well, in early days it seemed that family and LE were all saying this wasn't a catfish situ? IMO. At least, that was what was portrayed in the media. So I really had fallen into line with alot of others way of thinking, that this was totally random. But at the same time, it seemed like such an unbelievable thing to happen in the way that it did IMO! Plus it always made me wonder if the resetting of the phone a week prior by L. was really a coincidence! Now it almost seems like obvious that indeed this is a catfishing case!

 

[MistyWaters]

Especially for a teen with a known interest in criminology who took perhaps an extra measure of caution should the meet-up not go as planned -- or even should it go as she suspected it might, in a To Catch a Predator-type scenario (note: I don't think is is what happened).

I don’t think it happened either. Two grade 8 students meeting a criminal in a semi-isolated place without access to transportation and no means of protection - “catching” doesn’t really seem feasible….and by all accounts Libby has been described as a very smart girl. Another reason, if she was on a criminal hunt-down I’d think she’d would’ve been prepared to call 911 at the first sign of danger and unfortunately that didn’t occur.

 

[Andreee]

Did you read the transcript? It was mentioned there that they have a witness who said she was going to meet AS at the bridge that day.

This is all stunning to find out! I still don't understand why and how all this new info (to us) came out? A poster here said it was posted briefly on a LE or court site, if that is true why only briefly? And why release it at this point, anyone know?

 

[Ravenmoon]

I thought KAK was trying to protect TK which is why he kept saying it must have been him, and he's the only one using the AS account.

BUT he mentioned that he gave DNA in his first interrogation in 2017 and he wasn't worried because he knew that would clear him. He must not think his dad is involved or else they would have already linked TK to the murders with DNA.

Probably going to sound like a lot of babbling here, so I apologize in advance:
First thing- KAK has changed his opinion in his latest interview.
This would be the one with Barbara McDonald.
He does say that his dad was with him that day- BUT- he also says that he knows his dad is capable of doing what was done to the girls. He also says his dad could have used his phone and had access.


Prior to that, he really did not cave in his story that his dad could not have been guilty, and he did not use KAKs phone.

Something that I think is important with his 2020 interview with LE is this:
KAK stated that he could not have been held liable for the CSAM because the dates that he had it reflected times when he himself was a minor.
(We know that is not true- but he was pretty sure of himself initially).
To me- that sounds like SOMEONE had coached him and assured him that he would never be charged if he took the rap for it because the would not be able to prosecute a minor for these charges. I believe he has tried to push that narrative because there was no arrest for more than 3 years after the discovery and that gave KAK the (false) reassurance that he would be untouchable.
If you combine that with the the fear that he has pertaining to his dad- well, that is why he tried to cover for him.
Having said that- it seems like there has been a shift in his attitude. He said dad is no longer speaking to him. He has ghosted him and that puts KAK in a position to rethink his loyalties to a person that would willingly pressure his own child to go down for this.

AMOO MOO JMO

 

[Andreee]

RSBM

but we don’t know when he arrived. He could have been there at 9am for all we know.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a 13 year old agreed to meet up with another teenager and brought a friend along. That seems more normal and likely than not.

I agree, and IMO he might've been none too pleased that L. brought her friend along! And from what I've read over the years, it is unusual to abduct two young teens at once as it is easier of course to deal with one, particularly in a situation such as that. IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I agree. The thing that makes me hesitant though is the time. If this is it, I just can’t believe it took all this time. Especially if all this information (phone data etc) was right there in the beginning. JMO

Just what I gather from the information we have been given:

We know that KAK and TA's residence was searched in February 2017.
We know they had information linking KAK to CSAM.
They dropped the ball by not taking KAK in- but, I think they knew this would lead to a bigger and more detailed CSAM ring. And it has...

What I don't think they had initially was the proof that the AS account was in contact with LG many times. KAK had basically wiped his phone and deleted accounts. I think initially they were looking at the K's as being specifically being tied to CSAM.

At some point, IMO , they had someone else in mind for the murders.. I think that was their focus UNTIL new eyes came in and began to put together just how involved LG was with AS. But- again IMO, this was coming from LGs accounts as well as her circle of friends. Then- in 2020 a new detective stepped in and was able to link AS to KAK...From there certain things began to fall into place.
I assume that they figured that KAK would fold with pressure and turn TK in.. and now, maybe he has? I guess we will find out in time.


AMOO MOO JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

exactly
no..those who read this are certain now of a major cover up or an arrest ..
thats why investigations are not for the public

Yes, I can’t help but think of shades of JBC whereby his confession was all but written up on FB and an arrest was to occur any day.

What concerns me about KAK was the interview was from Aug 2020 and not just yesterday. I wonder how many other possible suspects would we be ready to convict if transcripts of their interviews were released as well?

 

[TL4S]

I truly believe that in this case, the length of time directly correlates with the complexity of the investigation. There are clues to this, first of which was LE explaining to KAK that the reason he hadn't been arrested sooner was because his Dropbox links had opened up the largest child ring investigation in Indiana state history.

We also have multiple LE statements over the years saying it's an extremely complicated investigation, and now we know partly why.

A year after KAK's arrest, LE moves into a larger command center for the Delphi investigation, in Sept. 2021.

In December 2021, LE puts out the a_shots ask, requesting tips to the A&L tip line. I don't think it's any coincidence that his happened soon after LE was moved into the larger center, especially considering the involvement of this historic child ring investigation. Centered right in the middle of the A&L investigation.

I mean, yeah, people went wild with CE, DN, PE, JBC, and others. But LE never put out a public request for anyone until now. They didn't prepare a large space to handle the load. They didn't alter the suspect description (aside from the "change in direction" PC). We didn't have a bunch of leaked documents full of damning details linking a charged felon directly with L.

So no, KAK or his dad might not be BG, but why would LE connect a_shots to A&L in the way they have if a_shots was insignificant to the case? After 5 years? And LE states clearly that the only GPS for a_shots was the Peru house.

 

[MistyWaters]

Probably going to sound like a lot of babbling here, so I apologize in advance:
First thing- KAK has changed his opinion in his latest interview.
This would be the one with Barbara McDonald.
He does say that his dad was with him that day- BUT- he also says that he knows his dad is capable of doing what was done to the girls. He also says his dad could have used his phone and had access.


Prior to that, he really did not cave in his story that his dad could not have been guilty, and he did not use KAKs phone.

Something that I think is important with his 2020 interview with LE is this:
KAK stated that he could not have been held liable for the CSAM because the dates that he had it reflected times when he himself was a minor.
(We know that is not true- but he was pretty sure of himself initially).
To me- that sounds like SOMEONE had coached him and assured him that he would never be charged if he took the rap for it because the would not be able to prosecute a minor for these charges. I believe he has tried to push that narrative because there was no arrest for more than 3 years after the discovery and that gave KAK the (false) reassurance that he would be untouchable.
If you combine that with the the fear that he has pertaining to his dad- well, that is why he tried to cover for him.
Having said that- it seems like there has been a shift in his attitude. He said dad is no longer speaking to him. He has ghosted him and that puts KAK in a position to rethink his loyalties to a person that would willingly pressure his own child to go down for this.

AMOO MOO JMO

Just my opinion but this proves what a manipulative liar he is. Since he’s in jail he probably doesn’t realize Wishtv.com released the Affidavit of Probable Cause to the public. He’s already 27 years old, no way did these incidents date back 10 years and more and he certainly is fully aware of the 30 felony charges he’s presently facing.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

 

[Andreee]

I truly believe that in this case, the length of time directly correlates with the complexity of the investigation. There are clues to this, first of which was LE explaining to KAK that the reason he hadn't been arrested sooner was because his Dropbox links had opened up the largest child ring in Indiana state history.

We also have multiple LE statements over the years saying it's an extremely complicated investigation, and now we know partly why.

A year after KAK's arrest, LE moves into a larger command center for the Delphi investigation, in Sept. 2021.

In December 2021, LE puts out the a_shots ask, requesting tips to the A&L tip line. I don't think it's any coincidence that his happened soon after LE was moved into the larger center, especially considering the involvement of this historic child ring investigation. Centered right in the middle of the A&L investigation.

I mean, yeah, people went wild with CE, DN, PE, JBC, and others. But LE never put out a public request for anyone until now. They didn't prepare a large space to handle the load. They didn't alter the suspect description (aside from the "change in direction" PC). We didn't have a bunch of leaked documents full of damning details linking a charged felon directly with L.

So no, KAK or his dad might not be BG, but why would LE connect a_shots to A&L in the way they have if a_shots was insignificant to the case? After 5 years?

Yes, that makes alot of sense. And like you mention, it isn't necessarily KAK or his dad who committed this crime, could be someone else using that account! I certainly wouldn't discount that. IMO.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just me opinion but this proves what a manipulative liar he is. Since he’s in jail he probably doesn’t realize Wishtv.com released the Affidavit of Probably Cause. He’s already 27 years old, no way did these incidents go back 10 years and more.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

Agreed...but he sure did TRY to insist that he was "just a minor" when it happened..LE shut his argument down pretty quickly.

AMOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Yes, that makes alot of sense. And like you mention, it isn't necessarily KAK or his dad who committed this crime, could be someone else using that account! I certainly wouldn't discount that. IMO.

Something to keep in mind: LE said that the AS account was in direct contact with LG on the day of the murders. And, that account went to the VPN of 2 phones that were inside of the K's house.

AMOO MOO JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

Just my opinion but this proves what a manipulative liar he is. Since he’s in jail he probably doesn’t realize Wishtv.com released the Affidavit of Probable Cause to the public. He’s already 27 years old, no way did these incidents date back 10 years and more and he certainly is fully aware of the 30 felony charges he’s presently facing.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

I agree with the liar notion.

I also feel he was likely catfishing as far back as 2012:
https://twitter.com/switchNswishers/status/270756556910510080?s=20&t=fqbloClVVLht4jUhih-Xig

 

[Andreee]

Something to keep in mind: LE said that the AS account was in direct contact with LG on the day of the murders. And, that account went to the VPN of 2 phones that were inside of the K's house.

AMOO MOO JMO

Ah! I think I missed that, wow. I thought from early days that Libby's phone indicated no unusual contact with any possible catfish, and that it was reported as so in the media? I wonder if she may've had a burner phone as well, which was taken from the scene.